Is wax/sealer layering possible ?

Mochamanz1

Mochamanz1

Sun Blinded Detailer
This might sound really stupid, but can a wax and pure, non-cleaning sealer/polish be layered ? Just a thought, since some polishes such as Pinnacle Signature Series are so reflective, could they be encapsulated ? The ingredients include polymers, so there might just be some compatability.....



The sealants/polishers are so much more durable, would be nice to "freeze" the polish reflectivity inside a long lasting coating. :( I have so few cars to experiment upon.... Still dont quite understand the difference between "sealer" and "Polish". Could somebody please clarify ? I would possibly be less confused .....maybe
 
Polymer sealants actually "bond" to the skin of your car. Natural waxes (like #16 or S100) essentially float on top of the car. If you put a sealant over a wax, it won't bond to the car properly. The products I think you are calling waxes (like Pinnacle Signature Series) don't need to bond to the car in the same sense as polymer Sealants like SG, UPP, etc. As a result, you can put a wax on top of a sealant, but you can't put a sealant on top of a wax.



A "polish" is a different notion. That is a cleaning product or a product that removes surface imperfections from your car.
 
Thank you for the clarification of wax vs polish. I have applied Klasse sealant over the wax. I see nothing to indicate a problem...thats why I am curious... Reflectivity increased, no smearing or trouble curing... guess time will tell. Bonding is a molecular process, so maybe durability is the smoking gun in this instance. If the appearance does not last, bonding did not occur. Thanks again for the reply :)
 
When I first detailed my car, I applied Paste Glaz and then EX-P on top, and it didn't work out at all. It was not very smooth, didn't bead very well after one wash, and it definitely did not have the look of a just-completed detail. I knew something was wrong, and found out from this site that sealants go under the wax. I redid the car with the same products in the correct order and it made a world of difference.



So applying Klasse Sealant Glaze over a wax probably isn't going to work very well.
 
Nothing is more reflective than Zaino so why put anything closer to the paint. You can put as many layers as you want, I've heard of 70. I've put twelve on in a day and it worked exellent. Some people criticise me for doing this because the've never tried it and they don't understand how fool proof this is. Then put a good optically clear wax on it for depth. QD for anti dust properties. Then pop the beer at midnight. I have applied Zaino over wax with no problems what so ever, but I would say that the protection probably wont last near as long.

A true polish evens the paint. Menzerna is probably the best, they start aggresively for cars with webbing, oxidation, and scratches, then have polishes that will even the effects of the aggresive polish. Think of it like sandpaper, it goes from very abbrasive which helps the wood then goes to less abrassive to make the wood smooth. A true polish doesn't have protection although some products blurr the line. Most cars do not need the aggresive polish but are greatly benefited from the least aggresive polish or glaze. Menzerna final polish II is a good example of this. You really need to use polishes like this if you want the mirror look.

You might want to apply cleaner after polishing like p21s or s100.

A sealant is one that adds protection like Zaino.
 
mochamanz said:
Thank you for the clarification of wax vs polish. I have applied Klasse sealant over the wax. I see nothing to indicate a problem...thats why I am curious... Reflectivity increased, no smearing or trouble curing... guess time will tell. Bonding is a molecular process, so maybe durability is the smoking gun in this instance. If the appearance does not last, bonding did not occur. Thanks again for the reply :)
Click to expand...





You will have a problem with durability, no doubt.
 
~One manâ€â„¢s opinion / observations~



Once the polymer has cross-linked (Polymers or synthetic wax and acrylics cross-link during the curing process forming a molecular bond with the paint molecules) putting a carnauba wax on top should not affect durability as a wax does not bond to a surface or product but is held by surface tension.



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted [each one / teach one]

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ JonM
 
You can layer pure sealants but anything beyond 2-3 layers really isn't going to do much. In fact, I prefer to use products that work well with a single application but it never hurts to apply two coats or layers of any product, if only to ensure complete coverage.
 
~One manâ€â„¢s opinion / observations~



Layering:

By applying another product on top of one that has already cross-linked you can increase its density (up to a point) the thin film of product that's applied isn't really another layer. Two to four cross-linked (cured) applications are usually considered optimum



One thing that will negate the applied product density is lack of clarity, the base coat (that contains the vehicleâ€â„¢s colour) is covered / protected by a clear coat of urethane paint, which as well as providing protection is clear to enable the paint colour to show through and provide the colour with depth. Any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be optically clear (transparent) otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted



Solvents provide a lubricant and aid the adherence process by working their way into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the previous `layer' softening it, providing each subsequent applications carrying agent (solvent, oils silicones or emulsion) are not so concentrated that they degrade or remove (as in the case of a cleaner wax) what has been previously applied.



The carrier system (solvents) allows the product to fill and level the paint film surface to produce a flat surface (this flat level surface is more pronounced with polymers due to their molecular alignment characteristics). This level surface optimizes the paint film surface's desired optical properties (i.e. surface reflectance, clarity, gloss, and depth of shine)



Also be aware that the both the product and the foam pad may be non-abrasive, but application pressure if not kept to an absolute minimum and using use a very light and even pressure, may re-introduce surface marring and/or removal of the previously applied product.



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted [each one / teach one]

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ JonM
 
mochamanz said:
This might sound really stupid, but can a wax and pure, non-cleaning sealer/polish be layered ?
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Heh heh, few topics can turn contentious quite like the "layering" issue :D If people respond to this Q, you'll likely get a lot of arguments on both sides. Many probably won't respond because a) they feel it's been beaten to death already and b) it generally turns unpleasant.



Some of us *do* believe you can layer "non-cleaner" products, and some of us even believe you can layer certain "cleaner" products to a (very limited) extent. But arguing about this (and it almost always changes from discussion to argument) is about as productive (and pleasant) as a clergyman and an atheist "discussing" whether or not there is a god.



I suggest you simply *try* layering the product(s) in question. See if *you* discern a benefit from doing so. If so, keep at it. If not, don't waste your time and product.



Tip: if you're trying to layer, do whatever you can to avoid disturbing the previous application. Don't rub the next "coat" in aggressively. Use the spit-shine method (this would be worth searching on). Don't try to do this with high-solvent/high-cleaner content products. And don't stress out about people telling you you're wrong about whether or not whatever you're doing is worth your time and effort ;)



Oh, and as for layering KSG, which *does* layer, I seem to get the best look with 3-4 layers. Six layers lasted over a year on the family minivan, and was still beading when I started redoing it. Some panels I haven't redone yet are still beading after 15 (!) months. Based on this, durability-wise on a daily driver I'd apply as many layers as you can. Not that many of us let a vehicle go a year between major details :o
 
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