Is the Lake Country CCS hi-gloss pad less aggressive than the white?
- Thread starter Porkibear
- Start date
imported_Jokeman
New member
The green is less agressive. The green pads are great!
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
These are one of my favorite pads around.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Great question Porki because there always seems to be some level of confusion regarding the 'German' or 'Euro' Green pads vs. the White Pads. Which cuts mores/Which produces a better finish/ECT.
The Green and White foams are very different formula's.
The Euro or German Green foam is an opened celled foam with a high (80) PPI. It is a soft foam that can cut pretty good.
Imagines from this POST which you might be a good read.
The White Foam that we use on all of our Hi-Gloss Pads (most companies tend to use a noticeably cheaper foam, particularly on their larger sized pads) is a blended foam that has both closed and open cells. It has a lower (75) PPI. It is a polishing foam that finishing out really well.
The green foam is a finishing foam by design that happens to have good polishing power and the white foam is polishing foam by design that happens to have very good finishing ability. As you can imagine there is a lot of 'over lap' in the use of the foam.
When you touch the green foam compared to the white foam you will notice that is much softer to the touch and not as firm. It also has a (slightly) finer texture.
In normal operation both provide about the same amount of polishing potential or defect removal ability. However if you come across defects that need a little more pressure to remove the white pad would be your choice: It is firmer so it can withstand added pressure thus giving it more polishing potential and thus a more aggressive rating.
The green pad, because of its finer structure, in theory should produce a finer finish on the paint's surface.
But the theory and application do not always seem to add up. If you are polishing with a dual-action polisher such as a Porter Cable or G110 you are better off using the white pad in most cases, since it is firmer and will absorb less of motion of the machine.
I also find that when used on a rotary on most paints with Menzerna SIP the green pad can rival the cut or even surpass the cut of white pad while finishing down to near LSP level perfection.
It would be best to have both pads, but if you where limited to one pad, particularly with a dual-action polisher, I would go with the white pad.
Thanks for that really informative post. I read the link you gave and that was really helpful as well. So, let's continue this...since now that my pads have shipped from PAC, I now need to know what product to apply to which pad. Here is the list of polishes and products I currently own:
3M Swirl Mark Remover
3M Hand Glaze
3M Perfect-it Finish Wax (which I think I'm not going to use)
Menzerna Intensive Polish
Menzerna Final Polish II
Klasse All-in-one
Klasse Sealant Glaze
These and the pads will be used with a PC7424
So here is my follow up question...my car is a 2001 Audi S4, and now the paint definitely has swirl marks from washing. I will of course start my detail with a clay bar application (I'm using Clay Magic for this).
With the new pads I purchased (Lake Country CCS hi-gloss), how should I match up the products I have to the pad color? I'm assuming the Menzerna IP is comparable to the 3M Swirlmark remover in function, but am I supposed to use the Menzerna IP in conjuction with the orange hi-gloss CCS pad? Here's my initial thought on how to proceed:
3M Swirl Mark Remover w/ orange hi-gloss CCS
Menzerna IP w/ white pad
Menzerna Final Polish II w/ green pad
3M Hand glaze w/ black pad
Klasse All-in-one w/ red pad
Klasse Sealant Glaze w/ microfiber hand applicator
Do you think this is too many steps for a neglected paint finish? Should I be finishing with a carnauba wax?
Here are two pictures I took of the hood under flourescent lighting. I though it would bring out the swirl marks, but apparently my iPhone can't do EVERYTHING...
3M Swirl Mark Remover
3M Hand Glaze
3M Perfect-it Finish Wax (which I think I'm not going to use)
Menzerna Intensive Polish
Menzerna Final Polish II
Klasse All-in-one
Klasse Sealant Glaze
These and the pads will be used with a PC7424
So here is my follow up question...my car is a 2001 Audi S4, and now the paint definitely has swirl marks from washing. I will of course start my detail with a clay bar application (I'm using Clay Magic for this).
With the new pads I purchased (Lake Country CCS hi-gloss), how should I match up the products I have to the pad color? I'm assuming the Menzerna IP is comparable to the 3M Swirlmark remover in function, but am I supposed to use the Menzerna IP in conjuction with the orange hi-gloss CCS pad? Here's my initial thought on how to proceed:
3M Swirl Mark Remover w/ orange hi-gloss CCS
Menzerna IP w/ white pad
Menzerna Final Polish II w/ green pad
3M Hand glaze w/ black pad
Klasse All-in-one w/ red pad
Klasse Sealant Glaze w/ microfiber hand applicator
Do you think this is too many steps for a neglected paint finish? Should I be finishing with a carnauba wax?
Here are two pictures I took of the hood under flourescent lighting. I though it would bring out the swirl marks, but apparently my iPhone can't do EVERYTHING...
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Regarding the 3M Swirl Mark Remover, to my knowledge 3M has made several products with the same name. The only one I have used is from the Perfect-It 3000 line and I was not impressed with it at all. Not only did it barely remove swirl marks but it was next to impossible to remove. Since I am not sure which one you have I will exclude that from the process.
Next, Audi's tend to have hard paint. I say tend because it is an absolute generalization and you really don't know what you are dealing with until you put a buffer to it.
The key here is going to be to dial in your process using a test section. Tape off a 2x2 square or so and work that section until you are pleased with the results, inspecting the section as you go in the sun light or bright light. Once you get what you are looking for you can move onto to repeating that general procedure over the entire car.
Here is how I would do it and how I would pair the products.
Swirl Removal: Menzerna IP with an Orange Pad. You may need to make several passes (or more) to remove the defects if the paint is typical Audi hard and the defects are deep. Use speed 5-6 on your PC with moderate to firm pressure. Again use a test section to dial in exactly what you need to remove the marring. Keep in mind that the paint will not look perfect after this step and will likely have a very light haze or micro marring. That is okay, focus on the defect/swirl removal.
Polishing Haze Removal: You should only need one step for this. I would start with Menzerna FPII on a Black pad at first, polish the area, then inspect the section. If the Black Pad isn't sufficient to remove the polishing haze then I would step up to the White Pad. Use the least aggressive pad necessary.
I would not use hand glaze prior to Klasse AIO because the cleaning property of AIO will remove the hand glaze from the paint. I would go straight to AIO.
I would use the Green Euro Foam at this point (which may seem strange but this foam works exceptionally well with AIO's). Use speed 4 and light pressure, working the AIO back and forth until it almost melts into the paint. Use very little product.
When it comes time to apply the KSG, I would use this technique. Pour the product into a dispenser/spray bottle and apply it like a quick detailer with a twist. Use one light mist per panel and spread/work in with a microfiber towel. Then flip the towel over and continue to lightly buff until the surface becomes very slick, you will feel it happen.
As far as topping with a Carnauba Wax, that is certainly and option: PAC pioneered the use of topping Klasse with a carnauba wax, long before others copied the idea. P21s, which is a wax that is very similar to the one we first recommended, makes an ideal topping for the Klasse twins and is amazingly priced considering the awards it has won against more expensive competition.
Above all else take plenty of pictures and share them with us so we can share in your joy!
If you get started and need help shoot me a PM and I'll send you my cell number and help you out.
Todd
Next, Audi's tend to have hard paint. I say tend because it is an absolute generalization and you really don't know what you are dealing with until you put a buffer to it.
The key here is going to be to dial in your process using a test section. Tape off a 2x2 square or so and work that section until you are pleased with the results, inspecting the section as you go in the sun light or bright light. Once you get what you are looking for you can move onto to repeating that general procedure over the entire car.
Here is how I would do it and how I would pair the products.
Swirl Removal: Menzerna IP with an Orange Pad. You may need to make several passes (or more) to remove the defects if the paint is typical Audi hard and the defects are deep. Use speed 5-6 on your PC with moderate to firm pressure. Again use a test section to dial in exactly what you need to remove the marring. Keep in mind that the paint will not look perfect after this step and will likely have a very light haze or micro marring. That is okay, focus on the defect/swirl removal.
Polishing Haze Removal: You should only need one step for this. I would start with Menzerna FPII on a Black pad at first, polish the area, then inspect the section. If the Black Pad isn't sufficient to remove the polishing haze then I would step up to the White Pad. Use the least aggressive pad necessary.
I would not use hand glaze prior to Klasse AIO because the cleaning property of AIO will remove the hand glaze from the paint. I would go straight to AIO.
I would use the Green Euro Foam at this point (which may seem strange but this foam works exceptionally well with AIO's). Use speed 4 and light pressure, working the AIO back and forth until it almost melts into the paint. Use very little product.
When it comes time to apply the KSG, I would use this technique. Pour the product into a dispenser/spray bottle and apply it like a quick detailer with a twist. Use one light mist per panel and spread/work in with a microfiber towel. Then flip the towel over and continue to lightly buff until the surface becomes very slick, you will feel it happen.
As far as topping with a Carnauba Wax, that is certainly and option: PAC pioneered the use of topping Klasse with a carnauba wax, long before others copied the idea. P21s, which is a wax that is very similar to the one we first recommended, makes an ideal topping for the Klasse twins and is amazingly priced considering the awards it has won against more expensive competition.
Above all else take plenty of pictures and share them with us so we can share in your joy!
If you get started and need help shoot me a PM and I'll send you my cell number and help you out.
Todd