Is it true Dawn removes oils from the pain?
- Thread starter volfan
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imported_Intel486
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I read something that dawn does but it seems a lot of people still use it. I'm not sure it matters on clearcoated paints though.
Finishing Touch
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I have a friend who has done that. He has a 1998 Suburban and has always washed with Dawn. The car is white and very dull.
DoorMan :sosad
DoorMan :sosad
From RonK, no matter what you may of thought of him, he was THE paint expert. Any product that "preserves" or "nurishes" paints natural oils is total BS, paint doesn't really contain natural oils. Down will not strip precious oils from the finish. What it will do is weaken the plasticisers in the paint, causing it to over time weaken and turn white. Use dawn no more than once a year. A safer and better alternative IMO is the ABC system, not looking to start up another debate so please...
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
I personally have done both, the use of dawn as well as using 50/50 Isopropyl Alcohol and Distilled White Vinegar...... both work to remove wax. I'd just go ahead and use the Dawn though - it will be fine once...
Any dishwashing product is a very agressive oil and grease cutting agent and is going to leech beneficial oils from your paint. It does however, happen very slowly. These feeder oils are a part of the paints make up and can not be replaced by wax, polish, or polymers. A wash or two a year should not do any harm. If you do it once or twice a month it will start to show after a year or two. Do a search through yahoo or google and you'll find some articles on it, you will also find a bunch of crap but you should be able to navigate that. My statements are from research and slightly biased experience, like anything else you will have to make your mind up on what it is you want to do. I like to keep my vehicles for 7-10 years so I worry about the long haul, I also dont mind putting in some elbow grease using a more gentle method like a hand applied paint "cleaner" to remove wax. I also have a similar view on claying but thats for another thread...
:xyxthumbs
:xyxthumbs
I don't buy the argument that it removes oils from the paint. Logically, think about it. First of all there is generally a clear coat over the paint (not all paints but most nowadays). Second of all, don't you think rain and other things wouldn't do the same over time as well? Granted, not with the easy perhaps of a dawn detergent but they would go if this were really true. Then again, I'm not paint expert.
On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend it for your weekly wash. Only because it will for sure take the wax off your car.
Eric
On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend it for your weekly wash. Only because it will for sure take the wax off your car.
Eric
imported_Intel486
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Brad4rdHay said:
Lets get this straight. I think RonK is indeed the paint expert and knows all about detailing and I respect him for his knowledge. He knows much more than I know and much more than anyone on this board knows. I just think he's an... I mean, they do call him "Old Grumpy" for a reason.
Another option to the ABC system is ProWax's Power Lift Fallout Remover. From what I have heard, I think it might be a weaker acid than the ABC system. Not 100% positive though.
Brad nailed this one. "Feeding oils" are a total myth. The plasticizers in the paint are put there to help the film build to remain flexible, Dawn WILL remove the plasticizers over time. This makes the clear less flexable and more prone to stress cracking and it can also "chalk" the suface over time, ie turn dull.
One or twice a year is not a big deal, but I certianly would not want to wash my car with it every week.
One or twice a year is not a big deal, but I certianly would not want to wash my car with it every week.
Actually Intel, it's stronger. Pro's fallout remover is water, 5% olaxic acid and a little soap added for some lubrication. This type of product was used pretty extensively in the 80's but car and paint makers advised against using it any longer because it was found to break down the resin system of the clear over time.
As you know clearcoat is a porus material, it will absorb what is put onto it. Since you are applying a acid material and you don't nutralize it with a one step product because the is not seperate step to stop the reaction you just started, the acid solution will continue to get deeper into the film build and break the resin system. Exposure to high humidity and high temps can accelerate this process even faster. With something like the ABC system the "B" product is the nutralizer used to stop the acidic reaction from the "A" product. That is why modern system fallout remover require more than a single step.
The old "one step" removers just don't cut it and can destroy the film build over time, that's why all car makers quit using that type of product.
:upimported_Intel486
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ShowroomLincoln said:
Actually Intel, it's stronger. Pro's fallout remover is water, 5% olaxic acid and a little soap added for some lubrication. This type of product was used pretty extensively in the 80's but car and paint makers advised against using it any longer because it was found to break down the resin system of the clear over time.
As you know clearcoat is a porus material, it will absorb what is put onto it. Since you are applying a acid material and you don't nutralize it with a one step product because the is not seperate step to stop the reaction you just started, the acid solution will continue to get deeper into the film build and break the resin system. Exposure to high humidity and high temps can accelerate this process even faster. With something like the ABC system the "B" product is the nutralizer used to stop the acidic reaction from the "A" product. That is why modern system fallout remover require more than a single step.
The old "one step" removers just don't cut it and can destroy the film build over time, that's why all car makers quit using that type of product.
Their C-60 wash is suppose to neutralize the acid. We'll I'll find out what it does to paint soon enough.
Eboller,
Clear coat is just modified paint without pigment, and is prone to the same perils as "regular paint". As far as "plasticizers" go, I am of the opinion that those are the "oils" we are talking about. Light ends, softeners, and flex additives are petroleum oils of one kind or another and their depletion will lead to chalking, hardening and cracking of the surface. While my nomenclature may be a bit off, the theory is solid. All in all, you will go with what makes you happy, in the end I err on the side of caution.
Clear coat is just modified paint without pigment, and is prone to the same perils as "regular paint". As far as "plasticizers" go, I am of the opinion that those are the "oils" we are talking about. Light ends, softeners, and flex additives are petroleum oils of one kind or another and their depletion will lead to chalking, hardening and cracking of the surface. While my nomenclature may be a bit off, the theory is solid. All in all, you will go with what makes you happy, in the end I err on the side of caution.
Andre'
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Todays paints contain no petroleum oils.
PPG has a new paint product in testing, it's a water born paint in a gel form, you never need to mix it. It turns to liquid as soon as you add the reducer.
PPG has a new paint product in testing, it's a water born paint in a gel form, you never need to mix it. It turns to liquid as soon as you add the reducer.
2wheelsx2
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Yes. A glaze has fillers and oils which cover up the swirls and minor imperfections. The next car wash (or maybe two, depending on how mild the soap is) will show the imperfections again. A Dawn wash will show it all up right away.
imported_Intermezzo
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Deemo said:
When sitting on top of your car's paint, these oils are what provide the deep, wet shine to your car. Yeah, and I guess they do fill some swirls, but it was hard to notice for me. I think the main benefit of a glaze is the shine it provides.