I need help with some decontamination/prep for polishing

R

RallyPig

New member
Hey there!
I'm a first time poster, and working on detailing some of my personal (and family) cars. I am by no means an expert.
So forgive me if this isn't in the right sub-forum (or mods may move it).

After a very thorough wash (Poorboys slick and suds) on a 200k mile '03 black camry - a almost salt like mist is stuck to the car. I scrubbed with some Dawn Dish soap to try and get rid of some tar (shoe-string budgeteer) and a bug sponge. I tried some simple green (sort of an APC?) and attempted to spot clean some area's repeatedly and than 'attacked' with clay. After 4x passes with APC and clay I realized this dirty light appearance wont clear away. While A LOT appears to be an infinite amount of rock chips revealing primer, it's hard to bring myself to continue on with the DA polisher without asking you helpful folks first at what it may be.

To add to that, there are numerous sap drippings on the car from a pine tree. They are between clear and white and take a REAL harsh thumbnail action with a few minutes of time. I'm sure some are through the clear coat (or all) but are there any products to make this step easier?

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This was the roof before I started.. You can see some of the sap

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A product or "two" I'm deciding between to the arsenal for this are..
Surfex HD, 1z Bug and Tar, Optimum Power Clean, Progard V502, Proguard Truck and Trailer Wash (High PH for salt), IronX.

Jason
 
Do the small white spots feel bumpy after claying, or does the clayed section feel smooth (with the white spots still present)?

If it still feels bumpy, *might* be hardened concrete (not sure how it is a bunch of tiny specks, though) or paint overspray that is severely baked on.

If surface feels smooth after claying, unfortunately the clearcoat may be failing or have some serious issues.

My experience is pretty limited, so I hope others chime in to help you out. Have you tried polishing a small (hidden) spot to see what happens?
 
Ok, so, nothing wrong with being 'new'... everyone starts somewhere. Nothing wrong with being value minded but some monetary resources need to be allocated in proper places. Namely, you need a rinseless, waterless, or quick detailer to help lubricate the clay process. APC is not going to lubricate the surface enough to minize marring and the elevated pH level of Simple Green is a poor choice for painted surfaces. I guess dawn diluted could be used in a pinch but both APC & Dawn will probably be detrimental to the lifespan of the clay.

Before I comment on the pics you provided, you can use your significant other's (if you have one) nail polish remover for the sap. Much better solution than a finger nail or other 'tool' that uses shear force to remove. Or another general purpose body solvent or mineral spirits (not lacquer thinner) if you don't have nail polish remover handy. Be sure to wash the area(s) after.

On to the pics... to me, your 'problems' appear to be a combination of:
A.) Road rash or minute defects from debris thrown against the lower bumper and front areas. Considering the age of the vehicle, quite normal.
B.) Crow's feet / clear coat failure... hard to tell but it looks like they are beginning to show, especially on the front bumper.
C.) Rock chips... looks like in one picture material has been displaced by an impact and the white primer is showing below.

Not much you can do about any of these... the front bumper is going to be the most unforgiving to make look decent, especially since it is black. (Question though, and the answer could affect the A,B,C above- Is the black a solid black or metallic? Hard to tell from the pictures but if it is indeed a metallic black that could be some of what I am interpreting as 'defects'.)

If there is in fact the beginning of Crow's feet... nothing you can do. I would be as conservative as possible with any polishing of these areas and put good protection on it and keep it on there. An added wax/ sealant or even coating is not going to stop the process of clear coat failure from spreading. However, excessive polishing will accelerate it. EDIT: If I were you and assuming my hypothesis are correct... my goal would be to clean the clear and restore color. I would achieve the appropriate finishing polish and foam pad from a test spot. I would not focus on defect removal, although a degree will be had through the minor polishing process.

And if you can, I would wash out of the direct sunlight after you complete the detail. Anything you can do to minimize wash related defects (such as water spots) will keep any future polishing sessions to a minimum and that is a huge necessity if my hypothesis are correct.

Best of luck!
-Gabe
 
Advice: Hang in there, you can make it better! Start with trying to remove the pine tar. Stoners Tarminator or CarPro Tar-X are good items sold here. Then try Iron-X to rid yourself of imbedded iron particles. Now give it a good wash with anyone of the top rated car wash products here. After that you will be ready to clay. I would use a medium grade clay with a dedicated clay lube or a waterless wash product. After all this stand back and take stock of the car. Is the paint compromised (eg. Clear coat failure)? If not then you can go onto a paint correction of some sort. Take more pictures and post them back here for more help. Or there may be a member in your area that is willing to help. Welcome to Autopia!
 
RallyPig- Welcome to Autopia!

I'd use a Decontamination Chemical made for such cleanups, something like ValuGard's "A" or (the much nastier) FinishKare 1119. I like APCs like Optimum Power Clean, and I like clay, but they're not what I'd use for this sort of work.

And regarding compromised paint/clearcoat, IME you can sometimes get by for a long, LONG, time by just fixing it up once (be gentle about the abrasive polishing, don't take off much more clear) and using a good product (wax/sealant/coating) regularly. Especially if you keep it out of the sun as best you can. The compromised clear on my '93 Audi looks a lot like your pix, and it hasn't gotten appreciably worse since I got the car eight years ago. Everybody who saw it, myself included, expected it to need repainted in short order, but nope, it's doing just fine.
 
Wow, a ton of great replies!
It's very difficult to tell WHAT it is exactly from my lack of experience. I assume it's no single diety, but a work up of many on a car with this many miles.

I didn't want to quote everyone, but I will address everyone.

1. The "Contamination" is bumpy. However it's difficult to tell if they are 'negative' or 'positive' bumps. They are VERY small, I tried to use a razor blade in a inconspicuous spot and some catch - and some don't. I think it may simply be clear cost failure.

2. I don't use clay with an APC and I have a little bit of over the counter meguires quick detail - but I went ahead and clayed the car using warm soapy water. The APC's and Dawn were my attempt at removing the dirt that doesn't seem to wash away, where it was particularly bad behind the wheels.

There was a dramatic improvement even visually after I clayed these areas - so I think I need a stronger chemical soap as you said.

3. I tried mineral spirits on the sap - but it didn't touch it. I let it dwell in some spots for a couple minutes, scrubbed, put more on, but ultimately it didn't work.

Maybe I'll grab some TarX. Can these be used on bug guts too? They seem to usually be MFG'd together to a degree.

4. My plan was to use my Meguires D300 and start with some 205 and just see what it does. But.. It's not in the mail, it's been back ordered for 2 weeks from Palm Beach Motoring Accessories (seller on Amazon I got Poorboys from too), and it just got in the mail..

After all, I get to experiment quite a bit. There's quite a few completely neglected cars I have access to (this one hasn't been washed in 2 years). I've got handfuls of cars to practice on before I do my own (haha, kidding.. Or am I.).
 
After a bit of research, I am going to try "TRI.X", something with an iron remover and tar remover. It seems like it has really great reviews. While the ABC system may do more justice, I just want to save a little more money right now.

I'll try some goo gone on the sap in the mean time..
 
Coming from the Land of Tall Trees, the Pacific Northwest, I have successfully removed hundreds of tree sap blobs of all sizes with Sharp Pointed Q-Tips and Goof Off in the little metal can.. You can find this can at Home Depot or the Internet... The Sharp Pointed QTips I found at Target..

My process is to get the Q-Tip wet, place it on the sap, let it soak for a few seconds and gently try to remove it off the spot. Then immediately, blot any liquid off the paint...

This has successfully completely removed the fresher sap blobs.. For the really older ones it took them off but since they had etched into the paint, there was a little spot that was IN the paint now that is there forever..

Now, on this car with that old paint and miles, you might be more careful because it looks like the paint is ready to go...
Good Luck !
Dan F
 
Awesome thanks guys. I used some IPA (I forget the ratio) but it was S-L-O-W. Goof off was on par (it really is better than Goo-Gone, I always thought it was the same thing and people mispronounced it jaja).
I ended up cheating because this car had 30+ spots and used Acetone, which I followed up immediately with a soapy sponge. It took only 5 seconds of soaking, and it basically wiped off.. I didnt appear to hurt the clear coat but for anything of a car that isnt mine I will forgo the IPA/Goof Off method.

Now, my megs MT300 DA is here so I can start practicing some real polishing!
 
When I had stubborn sap on my car, I poured boiling hot water on it. You can also put a mf cloth over the area and soak that in boiling water and let it sit for a while. Softens up the dried on spots very well and allows for easier removal with the other products you mentioned.
 
I`ve never heard of the "boiling water" approach and I would not try it on my car. If Goof-off and acetone do not do the job I would probably leave well enough alone because that sap has turned to amber. Good luck and keep smiling!
 
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