I don’t think a full traditional wash is better than rinseless!

C

Cadfael

Member
There. I said it.

I see often that folks say that you can’t beat a traditional wash with running water for gentleness to the paint. I don’t think I believe that any more. Yvan Lacroix talks about the polymers being there when you dry with the towel. I know he has a dog in the fight but it sounds reasonable to me.

I can’t speak to the chemistry but anecdotally I’ve been using ONR foe more than a decade. When we sold my wife’s MDX, it was in fantastic shape paint wise after years of rinseless. She currently has a tuxedo black Navigator that has seen only rinseless since we drove it off the lot new 7 years ago. When I polished it to apply a coating, it had very minimal swirls.* it only took Mezerna SF 4000 on polishing pads & G9 to correct it. When I see folks mention only using rinseless on lightly dusty cars, it drives me crazy. I’ve used it for everything short of cakes on dirt. And I haven’t presprayed ONR most of the time, (only when it’s really grimy).

That’s my experience and I’m sticking with it.

*Those could very well be from the 2 times it’s gone through a scratch-o-matic when I wasn’t able to clean it due to health.
 
I don`t think there is anything unsafe with a rinseless or waterless wash when using the right products and techniques. However, I do think there is an appropriate time for all of them as well.

When my car has been driven in the snow and salt for two months and has a new, gritty, white-ish layer of armor or a long road summer road trip with rain has left my car bug caked and filthy, I`m reaching for the power washer, bucket, and a hose. However, a week or two of commuting to work and errands in mild weather would easily be cleaned up with rinseless or waterless.
 
Desertnate said:
I don`t think there is anything unsafe with a rinseless or waterless wash when using the right products and techniques. However, I do think there is an appropriate time for all of them as well.

When my car has been driven in the snow and salt for two months and has a new, gritty, white-ish layer of armor or a long road summer road trip with rain has left my car bug caked and filthy, I`m reaching for the power washer, bucket, and a hose. However, a week or two of commuting to work and errands in mild weather would easily be cleaned up with rinseless or waterless.
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That sounds reasonable. Like I said, I draw the line at ‘caked on’ and then if I can spritz the gunk off I will probably proceed with the process. I’ve been thinking of a pressure washer but haven’t pulled the trigger yet. We really don’t go anywhere with mud anymore though.
 
You don`t need mud for a pressure washer - they`re nice to use any time there`s grit on the car that you`d like to knock off before making physical contact.

I just got a cordless/bucket fed unit to use in the garage for pre-wash spray downs to help boost my ability to do nice safe rinseless washes in the garage. For a full on wash, I`ve got a corded electric to use the foam cannon with (Griot`s surface wash as a pre-treatment then a traditional multi-mitt bucket wash).

I`ve often thought that if you take a step back, it`s safer to do an Autopian rinseless wash on a dirty car than it is to run through any grinder car wash.
(I know automated washes weren`t what you were referring to in the original post, just something I`ve been thinking about lately as I`ve been evaluating my personal paint care plan)
 
What do you folks think of a touchless car wash on a real ceramic coating? CQUK for instance.

I really am enjoying carpro ech20 the last few mths. I have a bottle of mckee`s 914 too now but i have to wait to try it.
 
noorth said:
What do you folks think of a touchless car wash on a real ceramic coating? CQUK for instance.
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Only port in the storm during a Northeast Ohio Winter; no harm, no foul. Doesn`t get it *really* clean but good enough and better than doing nothing for 5 months.
 
BudgetPlan1 said:
Only port in the storm during a Northeast Ohio Winter; no harm, no foul. Doesn`t get it *really* clean but good enough and better than doing nothing for 5 months.
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For sure, if i happen to come back to work this year and have to fly to meet the ship i will probably just run through a touchless. I don`t have the time or drive to go to the self wash bay at the end of the city, small city. The car will be sitting alone for 4 weeks anyhow lol
 
Nah. You can`t change physics, abrasive particles + pressure = scratches. The rinseless/waterless solution helps minimize that but you can`t convince me that rinsing the vehicle off first and actually removing some of the grit isn`t safer for the clearcoat.

IMO there`s nothing "magical" about rinseless solutions. It`s just the ease of use that encourages someone to wash the car more frequently, along with good technique that minimizes scratches.

There`s also a bunch of variations to how to do it. I`ve rinsed a car off with a pressure washer and pulled it in the garage for a rinseless just to wash out of the sun. If I didn`t have access to water I`d absolutely do a rinseless or waterless on a regular basis.
 
As long as you can clean `em up for *years* on end without instilling marring, then the Wash technique is OK. IF, OTOH, you mar the paint..*AND CARE ENOUGH TO THEN CORRECT IT* something`s wrong and the vehicle will run out of clearcoat if you keep it up. BUT hey, if you don`t care about *that* either, then have at it.
 
But I haven’t seen marring with rinseless. What I’m saying is that I’ve noticed less marring with ONR than I have with traditional methods before that.
 
Woah. I think we’re more on the same page than different as remember, we’re Autopians discussing the final few percent of a process. Couple things I take from this.

A pressure washing or strong hose rinse may remove some particles from the paint thereby reducing the number of contaminants that could cause marring. I agree this could be beneficial but we also know you need to touch the paint to remove all contaminants. So depending on the dirt level, this may or may not be needed and I think the right way to look at it is if there is recurring marring. If there is, something should be changed.

A hose wash should keep the car more lubricated. I’m not so sure I buy this one on vertical surfaces as if there is low humidity, high heat, and any wind, my car is dry pretty quick even with a hose. As a matter of fact, I think a rinseless using sections and drying sections results in less water spots than a traditional wash.

For me, I’ve switched to rinseless as my primary wash using Uber SiO2 Rinseless and periodically N-914. Then every couple months I do a regular wash with Reset. With this process I haven’t noticed any marring and I have a metallic burgundy Acura TL that shows swirls easily in the sun.
 
DetailZeus said:
Nah. You can`t change physics, abrasive particles + pressure = scratches. The rinseless/waterless solution helps minimize that but you can`t convince me that rinsing the vehicle off first and actually removing some of the grit isn`t safer for the clearcoat.

IMO there`s nothing "magical" about rinseless solutions. It`s just the ease of use that encourages someone to wash the car more frequently, along with good technique that minimizes scratches.

There`s also a bunch of variations to how to do it. I`ve rinsed a car off with a pressure washer and pulled it in the garage for a rinseless just to wash out of the sun. If I didn`t have access to water I`d absolutely do a rinseless or waterless on a regular basis.
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The infamous "common sense" perspective. :D
 
Cadfael said:
There. I said it.

I see often that folks say that you can’t beat a traditional wash with running water for gentleness to the paint. I don’t think I believe that any more. Yvan Lacroix talks about the polymers being there when you dry with the towel. I know he has a dog in the fight but it sounds reasonable to me.

I can’t speak to the chemistry but anecdotally I’ve been using ONR foe more than a decade. When we sold my wife’s MDX, it was in fantastic shape paint wise after years of rinseless. She currently has a tuxedo black Navigator that has seen only rinseless since we drove it off the lot new 7 years ago. When I polished it to apply a coating, it had very minimal swirls.* it only took Mezerna SF 4000 on polishing pads & G9 to correct it. When I see folks mention only using rinseless on lightly dusty cars, it drives me crazy. I’ve used it for everything short of cakes on dirt. And I haven’t presprayed ONR most of the time, (only when it’s really grimy).

That’s my experience and I’m sticking with it.

*Those could very well be from the 2 times it’s gone through a scratch-o-matic when I wasn’t able to clean it due to health.
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I`m behind this 100%. Also from a user of over a decade of rinseless washes. Oh and I also use a sponge from time to time, no swirls in sight.
 
Cadfael said:
But I haven’t seen marring with rinseless. What I’m saying is that I’ve noticed less marring with ONR than I have with traditional methods before that.
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That`s entirely dependent on the paint. Some paint conceals better than others. Some clear is harder than others. I don`t care how you wash, other than maybe a boars hair brush, you`ll get some micromarring. It`s a question of whether you notice or not.
 
JVD said:
I can see this perspective for those who live in different climates.... but my car looks like this 5 months out of the year. I would say rinsing is necessary. :thinking

IMG_20190123_075919 by jvd240, on Flickr
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Naw. A good quick detailer will have that cleaned up in no time. :). Yes, a hose or pressure rinse would definitely be beneficial but I’d say that is the exception in many locations as opposed to a routine wash.
 
Common sense has worked best if there grit u need water pressure by either normal wash with a hose or use the pump up sprayers jet setting and spray off the heavy stuff once the heavy stuff is gone both are the same. I alway mix my waterless mix at least double what they claim. The dirt grit washes are a pia to use a rinseless and it easier to use the hose.

The winter is a different story and I make it work
 
William_Wallace said:
Common sense has worked best if there grit u need water pressure by either normal wash with a hose or use the pump up sprayers jet setting and spray off the heavy stuff once the heavy stuff is gone both are the same. I alway mix my waterless mix at least double what they claim. The dirt grit washes are a pia to use a rinseless and it easier to use the hose.

The winter is a different story and I make it work
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I`ve noticed people using RW`s at stronger dilutions on here. How do you use N914 and ech20? I have both and my car will be fully coated soon.

Rinseless to me is tool, Not many things in life are black and white. I really like the method but so far i`ve always jet washed first.
 
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