Hey guys! I have a car with a custom House of Kolors Kandy paint job. It has been my daily driver for the past 9 years. I've kept up on washing and waxing it pretty regularly, but reading up on here has opened up a whole new world to me. It has not been detailed since it was repainted 9 years ago, and I would like to bring it back to looking like new, although it really isn't in bad shape. It has your typical swirl marks and a few RIDS here and there, but overall it doesn't look bad (aside from the front bumper, but that's a different story, which may get it's own thread in a different topic). Anyway, I've started amassing some detailing tools. Currently in my arsenal I have a PC7424XP with a 5" backing plate, orange, white, red, and a purple wool pads, Menzerna PO91E, and a whole bunch of washing and interior stuff. I washed the car with dish soap to remove any product on the car, clay barred my fender, and hit it with the PO91E and an orange pad and it really didn't seem to do much. I went over it a few times and it got most of the swirls out, but it did not give me the results I was looking for. Is HOK known for having a hard clear coat? I'm thinking that I need a compound and not a polish - get some M105 and a yellow pad and try that. So, am I doing something wrong, or do I just need some stronger stuff? If anyone has worked with this type of paint, or has any suggestions, I'm all ears. :autopia:
House of Kolors?
- Thread starter Astraeus
- Start date
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Welcome to Autopiaforums, to you question about the paint from HOK it's not the paint that's hard it will be the clear coat from the shop that apply it. Try stepping up in polish to SIP or M105 with a Cyan pad or orange pad to see if this will do the trick.
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Unless it's a single stage paint from HOK.
Concours.John
Auto Detail & Restoration
Is this a job done by Junior or is it just the paint used? Junior is the best in the business. His work after George Barris is some of the best I ever seen especially on any Ferrari he has done
Good point. I guess I figured HOK had a special clear used on their paints. The car has a ton of paint on it and is I believe what they call 3-stage. Primer, 4 coats of Orion Silver base, 5 coats of Cobalt Blue Kandy, and at least 4 coats of clear. I wish I had a paint depth gauge, because it is thick. I used the orange pad with the IP, do you think that will be OK with SIP or m105?
It was just the paint used. It was done by a small shop in Maine. The guy had only done HOK once before but I feel it came out quite well. There are a few places I've noticed over the years where it is a bit darker, but I think that's because I see the car every day. I'll post some pictures up tomorrow if it's sunny out.
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
SIP is one step above of IP, so I don't see any problems with it. Try it again and see where it stands before moving up in product.
mikeyg402
New member
Get some pics up 
I have quite a bit of experience with HOK, 5/6yrs ago I shot probably 20-25 completes then a whole slew of parts with HOK base/clear. Plus I've detailed a lot of them. The paint/clear all depends on how thin/thick the painter shot it, but yes typically its pretty hard stuff. Great stuff though, and it looks great when its cleaned up!
I have quite a bit of experience with HOK, 5/6yrs ago I shot probably 20-25 completes then a whole slew of parts with HOK base/clear. Plus I've detailed a lot of them. The paint/clear all depends on how thin/thick the painter shot it, but yes typically its pretty hard stuff. Great stuff though, and it looks great when its cleaned up!
Get some pics up
I have quite a bit of experience with HOK, 5/6yrs ago I shot probably 20-25 completes then a whole slew of parts with HOK base/clear. Plus I've detailed a lot of them. The paint/clear all depends on how thin/thick the painter shot it, but yes typically its pretty hard stuff. Great stuff though, and it looks great when its cleaned up!
It's on there pretty thick. I have a fiberglass bumper and unfortunately when it flexes, the paint cracks and seems to come off quite easily. I just measured one of the pieces that came off and it was 14 mils thick.
I guess I'll buy something a little stronger and try again. If I step up to SIP, Power Gloss, or M105, will I need something less abrasive than IP to finish it?
Orinda Auto Detail
Opti Coat Pro Certified
What color is it? and is there alot of a flake in it?
It's Orion Silver as a base, which is a fine metallic flake, with Cobalt Blue kandy on top of it. It's really hard to get a picture of it since it changes so much depending on the lighting conditions, but here's a shot I just took showing the color, flake and a bunch of swirls and scratches.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
I'm going to dissect your post and see I cannot provide some help!
What size are you pads?
Menzerna PO91E (IP2000) is a nice polish that will usually remove minor to moderate swirl marks (even sanding marks on softer paints) when used correctly. However to get maximum gloss and shine you are going to want to follow IP2000 with a dedicated finishing polish such as BLACKFIRE SRC Finishing Polish or Menzerna SF4000.
How much experience do you have with polishing? Often small tweaks in technique can make a world of difference when it comes to getting the results you are after. Here are some quick and general pointers.
- Use a small amount of product- 3 x 5 dime sized drops placed around the circumference of the pad.
- Work a small section- The smaller the section you work, the more correction power you are focusing on that section. Keep your section between 1.5 x 1.5' or 2 x 2'. It is normal to work too large of an area.
- Apply downward pressure over the pad- In order to get maximum polishing ability from a dual-action random orbital buffer you need to compress the foam pad. Mark your backing plate with a felt tipped marker so you can watch it rotate. Now press down on the machine while running to engage the foam to the paint. The pad may slow considerable, but as long as it doesn't stall you are far. It doesn't need to rotate fast, most of the polishing motion is coming from the orbital motion (not the rotational spinning) but it doesn't need to spin somewhat. About 15-20 lbs of down pressure seems to be a good rule of thumb.
- Move your arm SLOW!- One of the first mistakes new machine polish operators make is they move the machine too quickly across the paint. 1 to 2 inches per second is generally a good rate for correction. I always teach people to count in their head until they get the hang of it. Moving the polisher too fast and not using enough pressure seem to be the two biggest reasons why results are not achieved at first.
Following the advice above, work slowly, on speed 6, in a small section, using passes that overlap by 30% of more. Menzerna IP will begin to dust lightly and turn opaque as it breaks down.
You have to break this polish down for optimal results. With a random orbital DA polisher it could mean working the polish for a minute or more per section. This is because Menzerna IP is a diminishing polish. The longer you work it, the finer it becomes. If you stop too early you will leave self-created swirl marks in the paint.
Clear coat hardness isn't limited to brand. Instead it is greatly influenced by the painter himself. How much hardener was used, conditions at the time of spraying, etc. Even at the OEM/Factory level, identical models from the same year with the same color can have wildly different paints. They are just unique.
Yes you may need to step up to something more aggressive but before I tell you spend your money (at autopia-carcare.com -shameless plug) I would recommend tweaking your technique a little more. Technique will always trump product so work on that, and if you still don't get what your after we can set you up with a more aggressive combination. :bigups
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
Oh, and welcome to AutopiaForums!
All the pads I have at the moment are 6". I also just bought a cheap rotary buffer I can use the 6" pads with as well.
This will be the first time I polish something by machine. I've read the PC is pretty safe to learn with because you almost can't mess up.
I believe I followed all these steps correctly. I've been using speed 5, so I will try with 6, and I may be moving a bit fast so I will try to go slower. My backing plate is marked so I can see if it is rotating and I used a bathroom scale to see what 15-20lbs of pressure feels like. I've tried on a small part of my fender and a small section on my hood. Most of the swirls are gone, there are just a bunch of RIDS that are left behind. Do you think that changing my technique a bit will remove these too? I feel like I will need a polish/compound a step above and a step below the PO91E. Another problem I have is that the polish seems to dry out very fast. It dries up and turns clear but if I spray it with some QD it comes back and I continue.
Here ya go! Just took a couple after a quick wash with my new foam lance. That was fun! :bigupsGet some pics up
My favorite view of the car:
Side view:
The custom bixenon headlights I made:
And some swirls:
OK, so I tried again tonight. I masked off a small area of my hood, primed my orange pad, and put 3 dime sized drops on it. I worked slowly, back and forth then up and down on speed 6, overlapping about 50% each time. I did this until the polish looked as though it was gone, it was almost completely clear. I then sprayed it with a little bit of QD and repeated the process.
My work area:
A 50/50 shot:
Here is a closeup of where the tape was. You can see from the reflection of the light and the texture of the ceiling that it certainly looks better, but I still don't think it is right.
This one probably shows the best what I'm trying to get rid of. It looks just like the original swirl marks, just slightly less visible.
So, what should I try next? :help:
My work area:
A 50/50 shot:
Here is a closeup of where the tape was. You can see from the reflection of the light and the texture of the ceiling that it certainly looks better, but I still don't think it is right.
This one probably shows the best what I'm trying to get rid of. It looks just like the original swirl marks, just slightly less visible.
So, what should I try next? :help:
mikeyg402
New member
Looks like to me you need to step down to a finer pad and polish once you get it to that point. I'm not familiar with those polishes at all, is M105 just a cutting polish or can it be used as a finishing polish as well? If it can follow the same steps as you did above but with a Green or blue finishing pad. The rest of that stuff should come out completely.
Also what type of cheap rotary did you get and how many speed settings does it have? Im definitely a rotary guy all the way
Also what type of cheap rotary did you get and how many speed settings does it have? Im definitely a rotary guy all the way
mjlinane
My name is Mike
Yes, you can: http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums...nishing-meguiars-m105-ultra-cut-compound.html
M105 is a compound and finishing would, in all likelihood, bring out the clarity you are looking for.
M105 is a compound and finishing would, in all likelihood, bring out the clarity you are looking for.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
With those pictures it is kind of hard to see what is going on. This is because, at least on the angle of your picture, the scratches look long and fairly straight.
Menzerna IP2000 doesn't finish as nice as more modern polishes, so the marks you could be seeing could be a result from IP and a final polishing could clean those up.
Meguiar's M105 would be a definitely step up in aggressiveness. Couple this with a Meguiar's DA Microfiber Cutting Disc.
For finishing, BLACKFIRE SRC Finishing Polish on a crimson hydro-tech pad will clean up the marks and leave a high gloss.
Menzerna IP2000 doesn't finish as nice as more modern polishes, so the marks you could be seeing could be a result from IP and a final polishing could clean those up.
Meguiar's M105 would be a definitely step up in aggressiveness. Couple this with a Meguiar's DA Microfiber Cutting Disc.
For finishing, BLACKFIRE SRC Finishing Polish on a crimson hydro-tech pad will clean up the marks and leave a high gloss.
So, an update. Today I bought some M105 to try it out. I followed the guide linked to a few posts above, and I think it turned out pretty nice. Reflections look awesome, except for when i shine my light on it I'm still seeing all these scratches. With a light shined directly on that section and viewed from a distance they definitely look like holograms. I can see them OK, but I know a camera would have a hard time showing it. So, using a little trick I pulled from astrophotography, here's what I got:
It definitely looks like what I am seeing is coming from me wiping the area after polishing. I'm using a 10% IPA/water mix and the microfiber towels that came with my Lake Country pad kit from Autopia, and I'm not pressing all that hard. I just ordered a 12 pack of the Mango Breeze microfiber towels yesterday, I hope those don't do the same thing. Will this go away with a glaze or wax, or do I need different towels? I was planning on polishing the car and then adding a few coats of Klasse and leaving it at that. Has anyone seen this before?
It definitely looks like what I am seeing is coming from me wiping the area after polishing. I'm using a 10% IPA/water mix and the microfiber towels that came with my Lake Country pad kit from Autopia, and I'm not pressing all that hard. I just ordered a 12 pack of the Mango Breeze microfiber towels yesterday, I hope those don't do the same thing. Will this go away with a glaze or wax, or do I need different towels? I was planning on polishing the car and then adding a few coats of Klasse and leaving it at that. Has anyone seen this before?
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
So, an update. Today I bought some M105 to try it out. I followed the guide linked to a few posts above, and I think it turned out pretty nice. Reflections look awesome, except for when i shine my light on it I'm still seeing all these scratches. With a light shined directly on that section and viewed from a distance they definitely look like holograms. I can see them OK, but I know a camera would have a hard time showing it. So, using a little trick I pulled from astrophotography, here's what I got:
It definitely looks like what I am seeing is coming from me wiping the area after polishing. I'm using a 10% IPA/water mix and the microfiber towels that came with my Lake Country pad kit from Autopia, and I'm not pressing all that hard. I just ordered a 12 pack of the Mango Breeze microfiber towels yesterday, I hope those don't do the same thing. Will this go away with a glaze or wax, or do I need different towels? I was planning on polishing the car and then adding a few coats of Klasse and leaving it at that. Has anyone seen this before?
Okay, It looks like you have REALLY soft paint, so let's see if we can help you. This is not uncommon with some after market paints and they can sometimes be impossible to get 100%, particularly when even soft towels are creating micro marks.
What pads do you have available?
Take your softest pad and prime it with M105. That is take an ample amount of M105 and spread it over the pad until every square inch is covered. Allow it to sit for 5-10 minutes.
Now put the pad on a machine, place the machine against your leg with the pad facing up, and press a towel or pad brush against the pad, and run it at full speed until you knock out the majority of the excess polish. You should be left with a fine, even coat of polish of the pad.
Now polish a section, using speed 4, and keep firm pressure on the paint through out the entire polishing process. Do not reduce pressure. I want you to make 2-3 slow passes over the area and stop.
Then wipe off the residue and inspect the finish. It will likely not be perfect, but it should look much better. As in much much better.
Also, did you use the spacer between you backing plate and the DA polisher's head?
I think it may just be the black in this case, I've had problems with it since the car was painted. It got very cloudy a few weeks after it was initially painted and it was repolished by the place that painted it. Its not nearly as shiny or reflective as the blue is, so I may just try to get it close and move on. I also noticed that using a Meguiars QD instead of the water/IPA mix left a lot less of what is seen in the picture I posted.
I tried the M105 and a red pad. It made it better, but it honestly didn't look any different to me than it did after the 2 step process with an orange and then white pad. Using hardly any pressure on speed 4 stops the rotation. Below speed 6 it doesn't take much to stop the rotation. My new set of microfiber towels should be waiting for me when I get home from work, so I'll try a different towel and see if it makes a difference.
The backing plate has a small black washer between it and the polisher's head. Is that the proper spacer?
As for what pads I have available, I have yellow, orange, white, and red, all Lake Country 6" CCS foam. I also have M105, PO91E, and PO85rd for compounds/polishes.
I tried the M105 and a red pad. It made it better, but it honestly didn't look any different to me than it did after the 2 step process with an orange and then white pad. Using hardly any pressure on speed 4 stops the rotation. Below speed 6 it doesn't take much to stop the rotation. My new set of microfiber towels should be waiting for me when I get home from work, so I'll try a different towel and see if it makes a difference.
The backing plate has a small black washer between it and the polisher's head. Is that the proper spacer?
As for what pads I have available, I have yellow, orange, white, and red, all Lake Country 6" CCS foam. I also have M105, PO91E, and PO85rd for compounds/polishes.