Hey -- Can we talk about paint correction?

[jono20]

"Use the least aggressive products you can, and build up to harsher products if necessary." This is the detailers mantra, but I still don't buy it.



Last night, I finally got around to showing my dad a thing or two about paint correction. I gave him one of my old sorta-worn yellow LC pads, and a 3/4 full bottle of Megs fine cut cleaner, with a cut level of four.



We went at his Olds Alero, tan colour. It was very, very swirled, scratched, brushed, and full of RIDS. I masked off a line so he could see what was happening. After about 6 section passes at speed 6, we wiped off the residue, and tore off the tape. How did it look? Exactly the same. Maybe a 10% correction.



Next up, I reach for an bottle of Poorboy's SSR2.5, and do the same. Looks a lot better this time, but it's still scratched up. Maybe 50% correction.



Finally, I grab the M105 and throw it on the yellow. Finally, a 90-95% correction, only leaving the deepest swirls in the paint. Perfect!



Now I have to ask myself, as detailers, we are looking for perfection, and it seems no matter the car, no matter the paint, I always end up using M105 on an orange pad to get the defects out. Maybe I use it for a couple less passes on a softer paint, but it's the same combo. I'm at the point where I feel like I'm wasting my time trying the 'least aggressive' combos first.



Assuming that we have already busted out the highline II, and there is sufficient paint for a correction, why not just go ahead and reach for the m105 right off the beginning?

Discuss!

 

[Mindflux]

I think you are misinterpreting the 'mantra", it's not "always start with the least aggressive products you can", it's "always start with the least aggressive products you believe will WORK given the condition of the vehicle." (or that's how I've always interpreted it)



If the car is badly swirled and has never been polished, ever - it makes absolutely no sense to go grab a polish that's not going to impact the quality of the clear/paint in it's present state.



Then again I know Accumulator is going to come along and say "Don't always go straight for the harshest thing just because you know it'll work!".. and yeah he's got a point. All these heavy compounds with the pressure detailers are putting on the paint is going to thin your clear over time and given enough times polishing via this method will lead to problems down the road with the paint quality.



Just my $0.02c on the subject.



Obviously a yellow LC pad with 105 is going to give a lot of cut (and haze), why not grab a orange pad and something with a little bit finer cut and do a small section, doesn't work? step the pad up one cut.. no worky? step the product up a level and the pad back down. Obviously use your experience with the type of products you are using and understand the characteristics of the paint on the vehicle. It's an Oldsmobile so I might be inclined to believe it has semi hard paint like a lot of GM vehicles.

 

[jono20]

I think you are misinterpreting the 'mantra", it's not "always start with the least aggressive products you can", it's "always start with the least aggressive products you believe will WORK given the condition of the vehicle." (or that's how I've always interpreted it)

You're right. I think it goes back to the discussion about how SMAT compounds like 105 are sort of changing the way things are done. I may always reach for the same combo, but perhaps just do 2 passes on one vehicle, rather than 8 on another.



I always follow up M105 with D151 on a white pad.

 

[Accumulator]

...Then again I know Accumulator is going to come along and say "Don't always go straight for the harshest thing just because you know it'll work!".. and yeah he's got a point..

Heh heh, yeah...but I'm also just as likely to say "that's hard GM/Audi/whatever clear, don't waste your time with anything but M105!"



But....

as detailers, we are looking for perfection, and it seems no matter the car, no matter the paint, I always end up using M105 on an orange pad to get the defects out.

There's what really concerns me. That Autopian Quest for Perfection.



Now that M105 is available, most anybody can get most any paint nearly perfect. And in five years I bet we'll be seeing a lot of cc failure.



IF it's gonna stay nice (that's one very big "if" in my book), then sure, go ahead and do what you gotta do. Once or twice. And then quit correcting it, and just start living with defects, before you kill the paintjob.

 

[Mindflux]

Heh heh, yeah...but I'm also just as likely to say "that's hard GM/Audi/whatever clear, don't waste your time with anything but M105!"



But....

But you love HTEC! :sign

 

[jono20]

There's what really concerns me. That Autopian Quest for Perfection.



Now that M105 is available, most anybody can get most any paint nearly perfect. And in five years I bet we'll be seeing a lot of cc failure.



IF it's gonna stay nice (that's one very big "if" in my book), then sure, go ahead and do what you gotta do. Once or twice. And then quit correcting it, and just start living with defects, before you kill the paintjob.

Wise words. I'm new enough in to the detailing business that I haven't yet had a customer come back for a second correction. I'm sure when that day arrives I'm really going to have to start thinking about how much paint I'm really taking off.

 

[Accumulator]

But you love HTEC!

Eh, I used to. But I haven't reached for that in ages. Wanna buy a gallon or so of it?



I used to really like 1Z Pasta Intensiv too, resisted M105 for a long time thinking the 1Z was good enough. I was wrong.

 

[Mindflux]

Eh, I used to. But I haven't reached for that in ages. Wanna buy a gallon or so of it?



I used to really like 1Z Pasta Intensiv too, resisted M105 for a long time thinking the 1Z was good enough. I was wrong.

Gallon of rocks in a bottle, it's gotta be concrete by now. :spot I never got a chance to use 1Z Pasta.



I bought some 1Z polishes from DavidB's store back in 04-ish, but was never terribly impressed with them. Red/Yellow/Green tins.. can't remember the names. (Premium German Car Polish - einszett Car Care Products)

 

[Accumulator]

Gallon of rocks in a bottle, it's gotta be concrete by now..

Heh heh, nah..that'd be my ages-old 3M Extra Cut!



The HTEC isn't really all that aggressive IMO.

I bought some 1Z polishes from DavidB's store back in 04-ish, but was never terribly impressed with them. Red/Yellow/Green tins.. can't remember the names...

I still like the 1z Ultra/Extra (yellow tin), Paint Polish (green), and Metallic Polish (red)...for what they are. I think of them as abrasive cleaner-waxes with varying degrees of cut. No, they generally won't do what M105/M205 will do, but that's not all bad either

 

[Mindflux]

I still like the 1z Ultra/Extra (yellow tin), Paint Polish (green), and Metallic Polish (red)...for what they are. I think of them as abrasive cleaner-waxes with varying degrees of cut. No, they generally won't do what M105/M205 will do, but that's not all bad either

I didn't like how strongly they smelled and how runny they were. I helped a buddy polish out his E36 M3 with them a couple years ago and left the bottles with him.



If I remember right they were rife with filler too. :nervous:

 

[Accumulator]

I didn't like how strongly they smelled and how runny they were. I helped a buddy polish out his E36 M3 with them a couple years ago and left the bottles with him...

Well, those are *NOT* Products I'd want to do an E36 with! Heh heh, I actually like the solventy smell

If I remember right they were rife with filler too. :nervous:

Yeah, they do conceal a bit, if only via the wax they leave behind. That's not all bad IMO :nixweiss Yeah, I know, these days I guess that's more of my Autopian Heresy, what with people doing IPA wipes and so on....



1Z Polish topped with Collinite is still a good combo in my book.

 

[Mindflux]

Well, those are *NOT* Products I'd want to do an E36 with! Heh heh, I actually like the solventy smell

It's what I had on hand and on short notice.

Yeah, they do conceal a bit, if only via the wax they leave behind. That's not all bad IMO :nixweiss Yeah, I know, these days I guess that's more of my Autopian Heresy, what with people doing IPA wipes and so on....



1Z Polish topped with Collinite is still a good combo in my book.

I know fillers have their place, continued perfection has a price and eventually one might have to live with swirls or fill them. This discussion is so cyclical. :sadpace: