Help with gray areas in white paint

[lvalesko]

I've got a 1996 white Ford F-150 and the paint is in fair to good shape.



I followed some wonderful advice I got from you guys but still have a couple of problem areas I need help with.



I've washed > clayed with Sonus gray bar > washed > polished by hand with 1Z in the green can > waxed by hand with Collinite's #845 but still have areas around the door handles and tailgate handle where there are gray marks and actual fingerprints, (see photos below).



First part of my question is: is there anything I can use to get rid of these?



Second part of my question is: how harsh is claying and does it remove the wax, or can I clay whenever I wash and feel bumps returning without waxing afterward?



Thanks

Lori

 

[Accumulator]

lvalesko- Claying with the Sonus *Gray* is pretty aggressive IME, and yeah, it'll strip the wax (and even mar the paint in many cases).



Claying *is* a good first try, but maybe the stains in question are really down in the pores of the paint, where the clay can't get to them.



IMO you need to get a bit more aggressive about the chemical and abrasive means of paint cleaning.



Since the 1Z PP (which has chemical cleaners and abrasives) didn't get them, I'd try a dedicated (primarily chemical) paint cleaner and I'd put a bit of elbow grease into it. I wonder how Meguiar's Deep Crystal Step #1 Cleaner, followed by the 1Z (again, with a bit of oomph put into it), would work :think:



For maintenance claying that won't strip the wax right off (note that *any* claying probably isn't great on wax unless you're awfully gentle about it...), I simply *love* the Sonus *green*. I use it for spot-claying at every wash. It doesn't do much to my LSPs, but I'm pretty careful/gentle with it too.

 

[lvalesko]

Thanks Accumulator!



I checkout out the Meguiar’s cleaning products and am wondering if I should use the #4 Heavy-Cut Cleaner instead of the #1 Medium Cut Cleaner? The stained areas are fairly small but seem deep since the gray clay and 1Z didn't do a thing to them.



What type of hand applicator should I use?



And thanks for the clay info... I do have the Sonus Green but knew it was too fine for this first pass so I'll use it for touch-ups!



Thanks again

Lori

 

[Accumulator]

..I checkout out the Meguiar’s cleaning products and am wondering if I should use the #4 Heavy-Cut Cleaner instead of the #1 Medium Cut Cleaner?

*NO* DO NOT DO THAT! (How's that for emphasis ). Leave both the M04/#4 Heavy Cut Cleaner and M01/#1 Medium Cut Cleaner on the shelf, period.







Here's why: in the case of those two products, Meguiar's uses the word "cleaner" to mean "abrasive"/"compound" and those two are some seriously nasty stuff for rotary use only.



The recently reformulated M02/#2 LIGHT Cut Cleaner *might* be OK if you follow with the 1Z PP, and it used to have some good chemical cleaners in it along with the abrasives. Still somewhat aggressive stuff though as I understand it (I've only used the older, rotary-only version) but probably OK.



But those are all very different products from the gentle Deep Crystal Step #1 Cleaner that I suggested. They're quite abrasive compared to the 1Z PP whereas the DC#1 is almost functionally nonbrasive, relying instead upon chemical cleaners.

The stained areas are fairly small but seem deep since the gray clay and 1Z didn't do a thing to them.

If the DC#1 doesn't do it, then consider the M02 Light Cut or M83/#83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Follow ups with the 1Z oughta remove any hazing from either of those, but I'm just guessing (pretty sure though).

What type of hand applicator should I use?

First passes with cotton terry (pretty aggressive), followed by more passes with foam or MF (far less aggressive). Make it a two-step process in this regard, using fresh product each time.

I do have the Sonus Green but knew it was too fine for this first pass so I'll use it for touch-ups!

It oughta work great for that :xyxthumbs

 

[lvalesko]

Go it!!!!



Is this the product you're referring to:

Meguiar's Direct Deep Crystal® System Paint Cleaner



The label doesn't have the exact name you're using but it's what comes up when I Google: Deep Crystal Step #1 Cleaner.



I do have a terry applicator and was going to get these for the 1Z and Collinite's #845, (with MF towels for removal/buffing): CCS Euro Foam Hand Polish Applicators - Hand polish, hand detail, foam applicators, CCS foam pads, polishing pad



What do you think of the Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub or MPPC?



Got this info from the Meguiar's site:



Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub - This is a paint cleaner and as the name implies it was formulated for use for clear coat finishes but it works equally as well on single stage finishes. Body Scrub uses both diminishing abrasives and chemical cleaners, and offers more cleaning ability than Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner.



MPPC - Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner As the name implies, this is a paint cleaner. It uses both diminishing abrasives and chemical cleaners. MPPC offers a little more cleaning ability than Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub, it was formulated for use on single stage finishes but can be used and works great on clear coat finishes also. This paint cleaner can be applied by hand or machine.



Thanks again for the help - it is MUCH appreciated!!!!!



Lori

 

[Accumulator]

Is this the product you're referring to:

Meguiar's Direct Deep Crystal® System Paint Cleaner

Yeah, that's it.

I do have a terry applicator and was going to get these for the 1Z and Collinite's #845, (with MF towels for removal/buffing): CCS Euro Foam Hand Polish Applicators - Hand polish, hand detail, foam applicators, CCS foam pads, polishing pad

Those should work fine.

What do you think of the Meguiar's Clear Coat Body Scrub or MPPC?

I've never tried those, but yeah, either one sounds like a good idea, glad you ran across them as they're probably better choices than my suggestion.



While we always say to start with the least aggressive, in this case I think I'd go straight to the MPPC. You might want to do a little more research though, as I'm flying blind here.



You proabably won't need to use the 1Z after either of those, just go straight to your wax, but see how it works out.

 

[lvalesko]

The post on the Meguiar's site where I got that product info was a couple of years old - looks like both the Clear Coat Body Scrub and MPPC are both discontinued.



Guess I'll have to go with the Direct Deep Crystal unless anyone has any other ideas...

 

[Accumulator]

Doesn't that just figure



At least the DC#1 is commonly available OTC and inexpensive. Worth a try at least...

 

[lvalesko]

Off to Pep Boys - thanks!!!



Lori

 

[lvalesko]

Follow- up... it helped a little but not as much as I had hoped.

 

[Accumulator]

Follow- up... it helped a little but not as much as I had hoped.

Hmm.. wonder if repeated applications/efforts would be a good approach or whether you just need something more aggressive



If it were mine, at this point I'd probably reach for something like Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. *I* would just get all medieval on it, but that's just me and I can be a little overkill/heavy-handed at times (though not, heh heh, nearly as much so as many here ).

 

[lvalesko]

Where would that go in my process... before or after polish... then wax I presume?



I've got another thread here that I'd love you to comment o since you've been so helpful: http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing/124486-did-i-over-do.html



Thanks

Lori

 

[Accumulator]

Where would that go in my process... before or after polish... then wax I presume?

The UC is more aggressive than the 1Z PP, so you'd use that first and then follow up with the 1Z PP (which might/might not be necessary, depends on the paint). Then wax.



The idea is that you need to "cut through" the oxidized/stained paint so you use something more aggressive that'll do it in an efficient manner.



BUT...you gotta be a little careful because often people with limited experience don't notice that aggressive measures are turningn out to be *too* aggressive until it's too late.



I don't *think* the UC would be too much, but that *is* a '96 we're talking about and it's probably been through some, uhm....use over the years.

 

[lvalesko]

*UPDATE*



Broke down and got the Porter Cable and here's what I did:



Wash

Clay - Mother's yellow bar

Wash

UC - orange CCS pad

1Z - white CCS pad - *See #2 below*

845 Insulator wax - red CCS pad



Overall I'm pretty darn happy. The truck looks like it's a slightly lighter and brighter shade of white... AND the gray areas around the door handles were removed by the UC - YIPPY!!



I have a couple of questions/observations:



1. While I was using the UC, after awhile I noticed it was leaving almost a 'goo' on the paint. I was wiping it off with a MF towel but there would be small grayish spots that would not wipe off at all. I had to spray a little waterless car wash on them and then they would wipe off with the MF towel. I was spreading the UC with the PC on 3, then using 6 to work it in, moving very slowly and applying a fair amount of pressure, (going back and forth, then up and down). Any idea what I was doing to cause these 'sticky' spots?



2. I started to use the 1Z but the first area I did got very hazy so I stopped. My reflection in the areas where I had done the UC were pretty clear while the area I did with 1Z was fuzzy.



3. The UC only removed about 40% of the oxidation. Of course I'm assuming what I'm seeing is oxidation... when I put my head close to the truck and look down the side there are 'cloudy' areas mixed in with shiny areas.



4. There are still a few 'drops' of water etching on the hood and roof.



5. When I came home last night I parked under a street light and the reflection of the street light shining straight down on the hood showed what looked like spider webs... yet, in the daylight I can't see these.



So those are my observations and any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!



You all have been a tremendous help and my truck looks much better than when I first posted on this forum so I just need to know if I'm doing something wrong, leaving something our, or if my 1996 paint job is looking as good as it can.



Thanks

Lori

 

[Accumulator]

*UPDATE*



Broke down and got the Porter Cable and here's what I did:



Wash

Clay - Mother's yellow bar

Wash

UC - orange CCS pad

1Z - white CCS pad - *See #2 below*

845 Insulator wax - red CCS pad



Overall I'm pretty darn happy. The truck looks like it's a slightly lighter and brighter shade of white... AND the gray areas around the door handles were removed by the UC - YIPPY!!

OK, good! I just realized that I did something similar to your truck a little while back- my '01 Crown Vic (vibrant white, bought *very* used) came back from the tuner utterly trashed and "gray looking" all over! I got it looking reasonably OK with M105/M205/ZAIO.

I have a couple of questions/observations:



1. While I was using the UC, after awhile I noticed it was leaving almost a 'goo' on the paint. I was wiping it off with a MF towel but there would be small grayish spots that would not wipe off at all. I had to spray a little waterless car wash on them and then they would wipe off with the MF towel. I was spreading the UC with the PC on 3, then using 6 to work it in, moving very slowly and applying a fair amount of pressure, (going back and forth, then up and down). Any idea what I was doing to cause these 'sticky' spots?

Noting that I've never used UC (but have used the very similar M105)...don't spread products like this, that just makes it more likely that they'll dry out and otherwise cause issues exactly like what you experienced. Work small areas and just set the polisher against the paint and start polishing at speed 6 for maybe 25-35 seconds then buff it off. To avoid issues, you gotta a) not over work it (buff off before it's dry), b) keep your pad very clean and/or switch to a fresh one quite often, and c) use a "clean" QD like M34 (some like IPA for this) to help with buffing off the residue.

2. I started to use the 1Z but the first area I did got very hazy so I stopped. My reflection in the areas where I had done the UC were pretty clear while the area I did with 1Z was fuzzy.

I can think of two possibilities: 1) the UC just leaves a better finish on your paint, and/or 2) you might've somehow messed up with the 1Z PP. Guess maybe you should just stick with the UC, at least for now.

3. The UC only removed about 40% of the oxidation. Of course I'm assuming what I'm seeing is oxidation... when I put my head close to the truck and look down the side there are 'cloudy' areas mixed in with shiny areas.

It might be some polish residue...hard to say. I'd try re-UCing the cloudy areas, being careful to "use the UC right" to avoid the issues you encountered before. Maybe try doing them by hand, or with the white pad instead of the orange one.

4. There are still a few 'drops' of water etching on the hood and roof.

I'd live with them; don't get so "Autopian" about this stuff that you risk overdoing it

5. When I came home last night I parked under a street light and the reflection of the street light shining straight down on the hood showed what looked like spider webs... yet, in the daylight I can't see these.

Yeah, that's common. Getting the inspection lighting just right, so it'll show all the flaws that you see under "distant point source illumination" in a dark environment (that part is very important, too) can be tricky; you simply gotta *use* point source lighting in a dark environment! Easier said than done... for an economical option, I use/recommend an incandescent trouble light in an otherwise dark shop.



Or just don't care Some of my older vehicles are *far* from "Autopian" but that's just how they are. Heh heh, note how I keep putting "Autopian" in scare-quotes, gotta be real-world about this stuff.

.. my truck looks much better than when I first posted on this forum so I just need to know if I'm doing something wrong, leaving something our, or if my 1996 paint job is looking as good as it can.

I'm glad it's looking better and that you're happy with your results! Try the UC again on the cloudy spots be be kinda gentle about it, as you realize it's older paint and it's better to quit too soon than too late.



Funny that the 1Z PP isn't working out for you, sorry you might've wasted your money there.

 

[lvalesko]

Thanks for the feedback!!



As far as the UC:

Yes, it was drying out as I was working it so that's what happened. How do you keep a pad clean as you're working? I was moving very slowly with a fair amount of pressure, (probably about 20-25 lbs) - is this correct? And for each new section I applied a ring of UC around the edge of the pad - is that too much/often?



As far as the 1Z:

I applied it using less pressure and not quite as slowly, in a 1' x 1' area, for about 20 sec. I'm guessing the UC just leaves a better finish... but what do I know - LOL!



As far as getting all "Autopian" on it, I'm realistic that this is a 15 year old truck so I'm not expecting perfection! I may use the UC in 6 months when I'm ready to detail her again, but I'm fine for now.



Once I'm happy with it and just want to "maintain" the look what do you recommend? Should I always UC, then wax, (claying as the first step, of course)? Or is there something easier/gentler and better suited like a one-step cleaner/wax type of product? I'm *way* over 40 so 'easier' and fewer steps is preferred!!



Thanks again!

 

[Accumulator]

Thanks for the feedback!!



As far as the UC:

Yes, it was drying out as I was working it so that's what happened. How do you keep a pad clean as you're working? I was moving very slowly with a fair amount of pressure, (probably about 20-25 lbs) - is this correct? And for each new section I applied a ring of UC around the edge of the pad - is that too much/often?

Cleaning the pads is a hassle/PIA, no matter how you do it. The *easiest* thing to do is also the most expensive- have a zillion pads. Otherwise (in the absence of an air compressor, which can quickly/easily blow them clean to some extent) you have to stop and wash them out with Dawn or somesuch and then try to get them dry.



See if the dreaded search brings up how-to posts by GMblack3a. He's posted *great* stuff on the Kevin Brown Method ("KBM") which includes this topic. Anything M105-centric will also apply to UC.



I suspect you're not priming the pads correctly, working the product too long, adding too much additional product, and not cleaning/replacing the pads often enough. Heh heh, that sounds like quite a litany of errors, but it all really goes together and I think that it'll all make sense once you've read that KBM info. If not, I'll be happy to try to clarify, but see what GMblack3a and/or Kevin Brown have posted as they've covered it pretty well.

As far as the 1Z:

I applied it using less pressure and not quite as slowly, in a 1' x 1' area, for about 20 sec. I'm guessing the UC just leaves a better finish... but what do I know - LOL!

Heh heh, well... what do *I* know, never having used UC? :chuckle: But it sounds like you didn't work the 1Z PP nearly long enough. It's almost the exact opposite of the UC/etc. in that it takes a while to break down (UC doesn't break down, it just dries out) and 1Z PP eventually turns into (basically) cleaner-wax so you work it until it's *almost* dry...and even overworking it until it *is* dry seldom causes issues. But that's when it's working OK with *your* pad(s) on *your* paint and that just might not be the case here...not like everything works on every paint and I've never tried 1Z PP on Ford clear that I can recall.

As far as getting all "Autopian" on it, I'm realistic that this is a 15 year old truck so I'm not expecting perfection! I may use the UC in 6 months when I'm ready to detail her again, but I'm fine for now.

OK, I like the sound of that, just didn't know how much the "cloudy" areas bothered you. I find it pretty easy to live with (considerable!) imperfection on white vehicles of a certain age.

Once I'm happy with it and just want to "maintain" the look what do you recommend? Should I always UC, then wax, (claying as the first step, of course)? Or is there something easier/gentler and better suited like a one-step cleaner/wax type of product? I'm *way* over 40 so 'easier' and fewer steps is preferred!!

Heh heh, I'm 51 and I despise doing this stuff (Autopian Heresy, huh?!? I just like the end result...) so I understand completely!

-Only use the UC when you need all its power (serious oxidation/marring).

-Try to rewax before it really needs doing, or at least as soon as some characteristic you value (beading, dirt-shedding, etc.) drops off.

-A *very* gentle claying before the rewaxing is a good idea, but to be honest I don't always do it.

-Yeah, something like a cleaner-wax can bridge the gap between just rewaxing and doing something more involved. Then you can apply a "straight wax" like your 845 over top of the cleaner-wax after the next wash (cleaner-waxes don't last long at all).

-

FWIW, my beater-Audi has 845 on it, and all I've done for ages is wash and, very rarely, rewax. I really shoulda clayed it before the last rewaxing, but not having done so isn't keeping me up at night My niece-in-law is using 845 on the old Volvo wagon I gave her, and all she does is wash and rewax...probably doesn't look Autopian but people keep complimenting her on how nice it is (to the point of offering to buy it).

 

[Accumulator]

Thanks for the feedback!!



As far as the UC:

Yes, it was drying out as I was working it so that's what happened. How do you keep a pad clean as you're working? I was moving very slowly with a fair amount of pressure, (probably about 20-25 lbs) - is this correct? And for each new section I applied a ring of UC around the edge of the pad - is that too much/often?

Cleaning the pads is a hassle/PIA, no matter how you do it. The *easiest* thing to do is also the most expensive- have a zillion pads. Otherwise (in the absence of an air compressor, which can quickly/easily blow them clean to some extent) you have to stop and wash them out with Dawn or somesuch and then try to get them dry.



See if the dreaded search brings up how-to posts by GMblack3a. He's posted *great* stuff on the Kevin Brown Method ("KBM") which includes this topic. Anything M105-centric will also apply to UC.



I suspect you're not priming the pads correctly, working the product too long, adding too much additional product, and not cleaning/replacing the pads often enough. Heh heh, that sounds like quite a litany of errors, but it all really goes together and I think that it'll all make sense once you've read that KBM info. If not, I'll be happy to try to clarify, but see what GMblack3a and/or Kevin Brown have posted as they've covered it pretty well.

As far as the 1Z:

I applied it using less pressure and not quite as slowly, in a 1' x 1' area, for about 20 sec. I'm guessing the UC just leaves a better finish... but what do I know - LOL!

Heh heh, well... what do *I* know, never having used UC? :chuckle: But it sounds like you didn't work the 1Z PP nearly long enough. It's almost the exact opposite of the UC/etc. in that it takes a while to break down (UC doesn't break down, it just dries out) and 1Z PP eventually turns into (basically) cleaner-wax so you work it until it's *almost* dry...and even overworking it until it *is* dry seldom causes issues. But that's when it's working OK with *your* pad(s) on *your* paint and that just might not be the case here...not like everything works on every paint and I've never tried 1Z PP on Ford clear that I can recall.

As far as getting all "Autopian" on it, I'm realistic that this is a 15 year old truck so I'm not expecting perfection! I may use the UC in 6 months when I'm ready to detail her again, but I'm fine for now.

OK, I like the sound of that, just didn't know how much the "cloudy" areas bothered you. I find it pretty easy to live with (considerable!) imperfection on white vehicles of a certain age.

Once I'm happy with it and just want to "maintain" the look what do you recommend? Should I always UC, then wax, (claying as the first step, of course)? Or is there something easier/gentler and better suited like a one-step cleaner/wax type of product? I'm *way* over 40 so 'easier' and fewer steps is preferred!!

Heh heh, I'm 51 myself and I despise doing this stuff (Autopian Heresy, huh?!? I just like the end result...) so I understand completely!

-Only use the UC when you need all its power (serious oxidation/marring).

-Try to rewax before it really needs doing, or at least as soon as some characteristic you value (beading, dirt-shedding, etc.) drops off.

-A *very* gentle claying before the rewaxing is a good idea, but to be honest I don't always do it.

-Yeah, something like a cleaner-wax can bridge the gap between just rewaxing and doing something more involved. Then you can apply a "straight wax" like your 845 over top of the cleaner-wax after the next wash (cleaner-waxes don't last long at all).

-

FWIW, my beater-Audi has 845 on it, and all I've done for ages is wash and, very rarely, rewax. I really shoulda clayed it before the last rewaxing, but not having done so isn't keeping me up at night My niece-in-law is using 845 on the old Volvo wagon I gave her, and all she does is wash and rewax...probably doesn't look Autopian but people keep complimenting her on how nice it is (to the point of offering to buy it).



Oh, and please pardon any typos, I'm doing this kinda fast today