HELP a first time detailer

G

gellert17

New member
Hello everyone, this is my first thread here.



I've had my cosmos black 98 M3 for a few months now and am finally ready to do more than just wash her. The previous owner did a poor job with maintenance and there are plenty of swirl marks, water spots, and the typical fine scratches and chip marks (especially the hood). I'm sure she was in a garage much. Now she sits under a car port most of the time.



I've gone through many threads and websites and have come to the following first step to restoring my paint. I have a PC 7424 on the way and need to order everything else. I really only want to wax her 4-5 times a year. I hand wash her about every 10 days.



This is what I summized. Any input is appreciated.



1) wash car with dawn and dry

2) fill in chips with Autosharp pen - allow to cure for a few days (do I need to I use Langka or sand after it cures?)

3) wash car with P21S or Mothers shampoo and dry

4) clay entire car with either Mothers, Pinnacle, or 3M (which is best?)

5) 3M FI-2 on parts with deeper scratches only

6) 3M SMR on entire car to remove swirls

7) Klasse AIO

8) Klasse SG

9) S100 (is this entirely necessary?)



I am ordering a pad kit for my PC7424 and was wondering if all of these products require the use of the PC? If so, what pads to use for what steps?



Thanks a bunch everyone!
 
OK, let's see what we've got here...........



1. Do the paint touch up stuff first. It'll take the most time. All I can tell you is follow the directions and read threads here about how to do it properly. It's kind of a learned technique. Take your time and it should work fine.



2. Any of those clays would work fine. The Mothers is prolly the easiest to buy as its available everywhere. I just bought the 3M clay and will try it this weekend but it looks identical to Clay Magic clay. Use a good lubricant (QD or shampoo mix) and you'll have no problems.



3. S100 is not necessary but many people like carnaubas on top of Klasse as it adds a warmth and glow that Klasse doesn't provide. Its an aesthetic thing. Certainly worth an experiment if you're curious.



4. Personally I'd use the PC as much as possible. Use a yellow cutting pad with the FI2, a white polishing pad with the SMR and the AIO. All the other stuff is done by hand.



That's my two cents. Sounds like a lot of work. Have fun and post some pics when you're done.:xyxthumbs
 
I would also look for something other than Klasse SG if you're looking for more durability and/or something easier to work with. Perhaps even consider Zaino as 3 coats of this will easily last you the 3-4 months whereas I have heard mixed reviews on SG's durability with just one coat. However this is totally up to you on how you want to handle it.



You can still top Z with S100 to give it a bit different look if you decide you're unsatisfied with the "Zaino Shine."



good luck, nonetheless! :xyxthumbs
 
I clayed my car for the first time a few weeks ago. Used the 3M clay and it worked fine for me, can't compare it with any other clay bars though.
 
Reminder 3M SMR does not remove swirls, it fills swirls. TO remove, the 3M product such as PIII-MG will remove swirls, so will DACP followed by a lighter polish if you get haze. Since you're not going with a poly, you can use #7 to bring out more gloss or use 3M PIII Finishing Glaze as that has carnuba in it. Which ever way you go, removing or filling it all depends on product and what you want to accomplish.



Pad are subjective to type of swirls. moderate to bad, cutting pad, really light swirls, white polish pad. The orange power pad from CMA is kind of in the middle of cut/polish. Just work the products as they were intended and you'll be fine.



Have a nice day!



Regards,

Deanski
 
Yeah, I might rethink the Klasse twins and go with the S100 twins instead, SPEC and S100. Whould this give a good amount of protection?



The other route I suppose is Zaino, but what to use as a cleaner before this and after surface prep with the 3M products?



Also as far as removing swirls from the entire car, is PIII-MG the way to go? Less abrasive then FI-2? What do you use on scratches that I can feel with my nail?



Finally, is this too many steps?? The car, I doubt has ever been really detailed and so I want to bring back the original beauty as much as possible. Can I cut out or substitute a step??
 
With Klasse SG you should easily get by with 4-5 times per year - even with just one coat. That's the experience of most anyway.
 
PI3 MG is *more* aggressive than FI2. It'll leave noticeable swirl marks after its use but might be the trick to level the paint to remove those scratches. Some experienced detailers sand out the scratches and buff out the area so consider trying that if you feel up to it.



Hard to say if there are steps that can be removed. Your polishing regimen is similar to mine in that I start with an aggressive polish and follow up with a mild one to really make the paint 'pop'. It those protection steps that can use some editing if you want. But its really up to you. It'll be the polishing and paint prep that will make the car look its best, not all the layers of sealant and wax and whatnot.



I suggest playing with some of these products to see what works best for you. Only then will you know what results you can get.
 
bretfraz said:
PI3 MG is *more* aggressive than FI2. It'll leave noticeable swirl marks after its use but might be the trick to level the paint to remove those scratches.
Click to expand...
Bret,



This doesn't match my experience. I've found PIII-MG to be less agressive then FI-II (though not by a great deal), much less likely to leave it's own haze, and quite a bit easier to use. Actually, of the polishes I've used that can actually remove swirls, MG seems to leave the best final gloss for me. :nixweiss



Maybe we're not talking about the same product?



Tort
 
1) wash car with dawn and dry

The dawn wash should only be done right before you are ready to apply the protection layer. It's used to ensure all the oils etc on the paint are removed and give sealants the best bite to the clear as possible.



Never wash with dawn and not followup immediately with a protectant (wax or sealant)!



2) fill in chips with Autosharp pen - allow to cure for a few days (do I need to I use Langka or sand after it cures?)



There's really no need to let it cure for days. You can either use a hair dry to shorten the dry time or wait 12-24 hrs. That should be plenty between coats. Apply very thin coats rather than 1 blob. After the final coat, then wait a couple of days to ensure it has completely setup. Some people have had success with lanka or sanding. It's really up to you.



3) wash car with P21S or Mothers shampoo and dry

Fine.



4) clay entire car with either Mothers, Pinnacle, or 3M (which is

best?)

Best bang for your buck, Mothers is it. Pinnacle is a better clay.



5) 3M FI-2 on parts with deeper scratches only

FI-2 is old school. It works but takes a lot of effort. For a beginner, I'd suggest the Perfect III line.



6) 3M SMR on entire car to remove swirls

Does your entire require it? If so, no problem.



7) Klasse AIO



8) Klasse SG



9) S100 (is this entirely necessary?)

No.



It can actually be a problem if you decide you would like to layer the SG. As you'll have to remove the wax before you can apply another layer of SG. It's been noted, that upto about 3-4 layers, the look get's much better, after that, you have diminishing returns in that the extra effort of putting another layer or 2 doesn't really provide any additional benefits.



People apply a wax topper to a sealant to provide an extra bit of protection but mainly for the "Look". S100 tends to be bring out an extra sparkle. It's so easy to apply as well.



When using Klasse, read up on removal techniques because they are slightly different between the AIO and SG.



The only things I would suggest you also consider before going onto the AIO / SG steps and prior to the claying is is tar/sap removal which can take up quite a bit of time.



Don't forget about:



1. Glass Care?

2. Plastic Care? (lights)

3. Wheel Care?











:)
 
gellert17 said:
Yeah, I might rethink the Klasse twins and go with the S100 twins instead, SPEC and S100. Whould this give a good amount of protection?



The other route I suppose is Zaino, but what to use as a cleaner before this and after surface prep with the 3M products?



Also as far as removing swirls from the entire car, is PIII-MG the way to go? Less abrasive then FI-2? What do you use on scratches that I can feel with my nail?



Finally, is this too many steps?? The car, I doubt has ever been really detailed and so I want to bring back the original beauty as much as possible. Can I cut out or substitute a step??
Click to expand...



Klasse Twins vs. S100



For durability, there's no way S100 will match up with Klasse.

For ease of application, S100 is easier.



Klasse should last 6+ months depending your location and climate conditions.



S100 - 3+ weeks is average.



Preparing for any topper (Sealant or Wax) is basically the same unless you choose to use a glaze under a wax as the glaze may prevent proper sealant bonding.



Therefore, go about your routine for removing scratches/swirls etc with either 3M, Meguiars etc. The last step before applying the sealant or wax is to wash the surface and ensure you have an absolutely clean surface. Than apply your topper. The only difference come in how to apply and remove the topper which can be product dependant.



PI-3 and FI-2 are 2 different beasts. PI-3 is alot more forgiving and easier to work with. Finesse-it 2 works well but it does take a significant amount of time to break down and you're more likely to have hazing issues with it when using a dual action polisher. In my opinion, this is a good case of new = better.



Scratches that you can feel can only be minimized by leveling, you won't be able to remove it completed with our wetsanding etc. and you'll need to be careful not to eat through the clear.



For a full detail, your list isn't too long. To acheive the results you see here, a first full details is a given. Maintaining it, will require much fewer steps but don't skimp on the first go it or else the end product will never be what you hope for.



Paco
 
Right on thanks a bunch guys, great info. So, I am going to use the PI-3 instead of FI-2. Seems more user friendly.



Also, still a bit confused on the dawn wash. I thought this should be the first step to remove my old wax before I clay or cut. I thought I should not use it after I use SMR bercause that has oils and fillers thaat the dawn will strip. So I was going to dawn only once before everything and then use P21S shampoo for the other in between wash. Cool?
 
Hi Gellert



Dawn and oils...



Depends on what your hoping to achieve and what product you choose to top of with.



Many of like to remove the oils and fillers to ensure the swirls etc was removed and not just hidden. Also, if you go with a sealant, the oil can potentially cause problems for the sealant binding (decreased durability). Hence, dawn before you are just about to apply a sealant.



If you are going to wax, then you may not want to dawn as it shouldn't effect waxing.



As for dawn as the first step. That's up to you. I prefer to keep the dawn washing to a minimum.
 
If you are going to polish the finish, you really don't have to Dawn wash it. It may help in removing some was, but mostly oils/silicones.



Wash your car.



Clay the finish. Take your time when claying.



Wash again (any car detergent will do) dry.



Polish the finish.



Depending on what you are going to use, sealant or wax.



If waxing, no need to wash with Dawn, just was with normal detergent and dry & apply your wax.



If you are going sealant: Wash with Dawn to remove oils/silicone from polish as they cannot bond to oils. Start you sealant.



It's all in the prep and which way you go to be honest.



Regards,

Deanski
 
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