HD Speed with some Pad Problems

J

JonRC

New member
I had the great pleasure of trying HD Polish yesterday. The car looks fantastic!!! My pads. not so great.

I think my technique was probably messed up. It was my first time using a Porter Cable XP (4" back plate). I was using Buff and Shine Green Pads. I also used and orange pad and HD adapt on a few spots that had deep swirls / shallow scratches. I previously used a meguire drill attachment with 4 inch pads, so instead of buying the 5 plate for the new PC, i got a 4 plate to use up my 4 pad collection first.


I had a few pad problems:
1) Ive read great things about B&S pads. But, using 2 pads for a small coupe, one of them is very worn out / ruined. I had the PC setting at 5.5 with moderate/heavy pressure (because thats what worked best on the test spot, 2-3 slow passes 90-95% correction, at a setting of 5 the pad wasnt turning well). The pad underside near the Velcro looks like it is tearing. but the top looks ok. Unfortunately in the 4" size the next pad up is an orange light cut pad.

2) When i was working on the vertical panels i had to apply more pressure even though i thought i might be damaging the pad because when i let up it made a huge mess. HD sprayed all over. the vertical panels seemed a lot more pad damaging overall. and my second pad took a beating.

3) i might have over applied product. I used 4 pea size drops to prime and then 3 drops for each section thereafter (section = 1/4 of FRS hood with some overlap). I used 2 drops for some of the smaller sections. i cleaned my pad on the fly with a towel 2 times and with a brush, then I replaced the pad at what i thought was 1/2 way. the pads werent that dirty when i replaced them but looked saturated.

I loved the HD polish and HD adapt. No fillers let me get my paint looking fantastic. the work time was long. i was covering much bigger sections than normal. and correction was great. obviously when i slowed my passes and applied a little more speed and pressure i saw the 95% correction and got addicted. I was using my paint as a mirror. Amazing!!!!

I am going to order new pads. probably the 5.5 pads and backing plate and just want to know what you think i did wrong other than not using enough pads. The way i see it is, even if i had 4 pads. after 2 polishes my pads would be in a similar condition. so i want to correct my technique with the product to prolong the life of my pads.
 
I can try later today. I have them soaking in some water havent got around to cleaning them yet, because i still need to wax, and want to wash the pads together.

since the damage is on the underside, physics suggest the machine was spinning two fast compared to the top. im just not sure if that was because the pad was too saturated, i applied to much pressure, or if the speed was two high for a 4" pad, or i didnt use enough product (like lube) for my size sections.

I didnt apply product to a section at 3 speed and then crank it up. i worked at 5.5 the whole time. I tried to cover the whole section quickly with lighter pressure and then start. i often found i had enough product to extend my section.
 
The pad will tell the story of whether or not heat was a factor. If so, heat combined with oversaturation can cause pad failure. And even more accelerated with higher machine speeds. I would strongly avoid soaking pads. Its really not needed. If you cant powerwash them clean, just spray some APC, scrub it and then flush under warm water. Spin dry with air or just let them air dry.
 
JonRC said:
since the damage is on the underside, physics suggest the machine was spinning two fast compared to the top. im just not sure if that was because the pad was too saturated, i applied to much pressure, or if the speed was two high
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Sounds like all of the above and overheated the pads.

JonRC said:
I didnt apply product to a section at 3 speed and then crank it up. i worked at 5.5 the whole time. I tried to cover the whole section quickly with lighter pressure and then start. i often found i had enough product to extend my section.
Click to expand...
Start slow to spread before turning it up. That would be why the polish flung all over when you did less pressure.
 
JonRC said:
2) When i was working on the vertical panels i had to apply more pressure even though i thought i might be damaging the pad because when i let up it made a huge mess. HD sprayed all over. the vertical panels seemed a lot more pad damaging overall. and my second pad took a beating.
Click to expand...

The only reason this would happen with any pad is from the pad being oversaturated with product. Smaller and thinner pads need to be changed more frequently compared to thicker or larger pads for a couple reasons.

1. Thicker pads can absorb more spent product before being oversaturated.

2. Larger pads cover more surface area per section pass.

As soon as I notice the performance of my pad begin to deteriorate, I swap it out for a fresh one. To polish an entire car, Id say 3-4 5.5 inch pads should be your minimum. If you want to ensure best results, Id say around 6 5.5 inch pads. Sure you can extend the life of the pad by cleaning it on the fly with a brush or terry towel, but that only cleans the face of the pad.

JonRC said:
The way i see it is, even if i had 4 pads. after 2 polishes my pads would be in a similar condition.
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Not necessarily. Only using 2 pads puts a lot of stress on those 2 pads. Think of it like carrying weights.

If there are 2 guys in a room that have to lift 400 pounds, theyre carrying 200 pounds each. After a few minutes, they wont be able to lift the weight any more.

Now if you had 4 guys in a room, each would only carry 100 pounds each. They would be able to lift the same 400 pounds much longer than only using two guys. Its a rough analogy but I hope you get what I mean.

If you have 4 pads, go ahead and use all 4 pads on a single car. Clean them. And all 4 pads will be ready to go for the next car. If you only use 2 pads on that same car and try to save the other 2 pads for another car, youll have a much higher chance of damaging your pads again.
 
i agree with ray ^^

over saturation of the pad. product was stuck in the pad and when you applied the pressure it squeezed the pad out and rotation of the DA flung it every where.

1) Ive read great things about B&S pads. But, using 2 pads for a small coupe, one of them is very worn out / ruined. I had the PC setting at 5.5 with moderate/heavy pressure (because thats what worked best on the test spot, 2-3 slow passes 90-95% correction, at a setting of 5 the pad wasnt turning well). The pad underside near the Velcro looks like it is tearing. but the top looks ok. Unfortunately in the 4" size the next pad up is an orange light cut pad.
Click to expand...


another reason the velcro side looks like it was tearing is over saturation. all the product in the pad creates more heat, which makes the velcro come loose. you may also want to try lowering your speed to reduce heat.

it sounded like you could have used a white/orange pad with a lower speed and still get the same results. i highly recommend the orange B&S pad, finishes down about the same and cuts faster then green/white

id probably go with the 5.5" pads next time but if you intend to keep the 4" pads, remember to use way less product. smaller pad = holds less product
 
Sounds like you are trying to do the whole car with 2 pads. More pads are better so you can change them out more often. Even with cleaning on the fly after each section I still use a minimum of 4 pads per car and usually 6--never had a pad melt or fly apart on me.

BTW--I agree with the post above that the B&S orange is a much better choice as it cuts faster and finishes down as well on hard paint as the green pad.

Here is an article by Mike Philips regarding the number of pads you need for each step: LINK How many pads do I need to buff out my car?
 
I would never consider doing an entire vehicle with 4 inch pads in the first place...
And then only 2???
Yes, you absolutely Killed the pads... They are broken... Throw them away..

Think about getting a 5 inch backing plate and appropriate pads for the majority of the work, and then smaller pads for little areas, the tail and headlights, etc...

If I had to use a random orbital I would run it full speed to get the pad rotation vs downward pressure at the highest, most efficient level..

I would never put so much product on the pad and then turn it up so it flings it everywhere... Don`t make more work for yourself...
Good Luck !
Dan F
 
donbeezy said:
didnt think about that lol

wonder how much longer it would take with a 4" pad vs a 5.5"
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Way, Way, longer, and the pads would be dying quicker as what has happened here...

Unless you are detailing a motorcycle fender, tank, small things, you just can`t use small pads on a full size vehicle... No one in the world does that.. :)
Dan F
 
If you need to push very hard then just step up in aggressiveness, keep it spinning, keep it smooth, keep it cool like the Fonz.
 
What if I have the proper sized pad but using a pad washer. I`ve only got 2 of each Rupes pads for my 15 and 21.
Just take longer beer breaks?
 
Thanks for the tips guys. It was the seconed time detailing and i only had the 2 of each color pad. The car is also rather small. And as previously mentioned i am planning to order new 5.5 inch pads. I`ll be sure to order 4 pads. I might get white (heavy polish). The thing is i think my paint is soft but green wasn`t cutting it and orange seemed to aggressive. I had 2 blues but i was almost done and after seeing the damage planning on tossing the pad, so i finished her off.
This is how the polish did:
20160502_135331.jpg

This is after dg 105/601 and collinite 915 on the parts that matter as a topper (deepens and darkens my color)
20160502_174052.jpg
20160502_174115.jpg
20160502_174131.jpg
 
JBM said:
If you need to push very hard then just step up in aggressiveness, keep it spinning, keep it smooth, keep it cool like the Fonz.
Click to expand...

LOL YOu are showing your age!, and mine LOLOL He probably doesnt even know who the FONZ is LOLOL. However I may be wrong. no way of knowing an age in here.
 
NO where in this thread has he mentioned cleaning on the fly or giving them a quick wash and spin. BUY more than 4 pads. you need at least 4 of each grade. autoality has a great mix and match deal for B&S pads and the shipping is best deal also. (I think HD pads are made by B&S correct me if im wrong) or buy HD stuff, but def 4 of each, and practice cleaning them on the fly, grit guard with wash board attach works great! just a little APC and water and spin on wash board then spin out the water, and I use a terry towel to blot it and keep going. no need to spend 150 on a spring loaded bucket.
 
Why would you want to "use up" your 4" pads?? You`ll always need them for tight spaces like bumpers and pillars.
According to Mike`s article:

Correction step = 6 pads
1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
2 for driver`s side
2 for passenger side


Polishing step = 4 pads (You could probably get away with 3 if you use 1 for hood, roof and trunk lid)

1 for the hood
1 for the roof and trunk lid
1 for driver`s side
1 for passenger side

Sealing the paint step = 1 waxing pad
Use over entire vehicle

Plus cleaning on the fly after every section or two at the most. Here`s a how to-- Link: How to clean your foam pad on the fly
 
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