GM apparently has it's own problems...

JaredPointer said:
...GM thinks they'll be profitable in 2010. This is after the posted a 4+ BILLION dollar loss over the last 6 months. :rofl
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There was an article in the local paper about the GM plant in Arlington, TX. This plant builds large SUVs. With "great" business decisions such as this, I don't see how they can't help but be profitable. I hope those workers bank that overtime pay :idea

GM Arlington workers toil overtime to maintain SUV supplies | Automotive News: Latest News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News
 
Let's see.......Pop Toyota for $14 million and Govt Motors fine will be $14.27 and a knuckle slap with a ruler.
 
What good would the US Government fining Government Motors make anyway? That would be like taking money from my left pocket and putting it in my right.... At some point you gotta wonder, what would it take for GM to reap the benefits of what they've been sowing? But most likely the taxpayers will keep rewarding their horrible business practices by keeping them afloat with another "loan."
 
In this particular case, the 6 million vehicles were made from 1999 to 2003. Since everyone owns GM stock, we should wish them well.
 
I had not seen this on the news but I did see where they found e mails proving that Toyota knew months before the recalls that they had a uncontrolled acceleration problem.

Also that NASA is now working on the Toyota problem since toyota can't seem to fix it.
 
My original point being that this hasn't been all over the news. Why? Lots of people around the internets seem to have their ideas and suspicions....

Maybe NASA needs to get involved in GM's cash flow problem too. It probably costs less to run the space program than GM lost in the last six months. The common ground being the taxpayer is footing the bill for both.

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe the reason it's not all over the news is the fact that it's not really news in the sense that it's surprising.
 
JaredPointer said:
My original point being that this hasn't been all over the news. Why? Lots of people around the internets seem to have their ideas and suspicions....

Maybe NASA needs to get involved in GM's cash flow problem too. It probably costs less to run the space program than GM lost in the last six months. The common ground being the taxpayer is footing the bill for both.
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Yes we should let GM die that will help this nations economy big time.

I also think that tax payers should not fund to fix Toyota's problems let them figure it out for themselves.
 
black bart said:
Yes we should let GM die that will help this nations economy big time.
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Well, the one thing that would do is let the old, poor business practices out of the market. It most likely would spur technological improvement in the American auto industry and we'd probably come out of it with some really cool inventions and vehicles. It's apparent that the way we've been going about it - bailing out a company that looks as if it gets a big stack of money and then lights it on fire to watch it burn - is not working. How is it even humanly possible to lose 4 BILLION dollars in six months? Of course, this would be a long term improvement as opposed to the short term that everyone keeps their eye on.

black bart said:
I also think that tax payers should not fund to fix Toyota's problems let them figure it out for themselves.
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US Taxpayers won't, as Toyota is a Japanese company.

EDIT: I don't agree with NASA getting involved under the supervision of the US Government. I also don't know all the details related to that either.
 
black bart said:
Yes we should let GM die that will help this nations economy big time. ....
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I do not get this mentality at all. We have bailed them out already. It is up to them to build quality products and bring them to market at price points that create consumer desire to purchase them. It is not up to us (the American consumer) to prop them up just because they are a U.S. company. They compensate their leadership (boards and executives) handsomely. Produce! I wasn't in favor of bailing Chrysler out again, and if GM fails after this cash infusion, I am not in favor of further loans. If they think they are viable and have a plan, let them shop themselves in the open market for a buyer who agrees.
 
JaredPointer said:
Well, the one thing that would do is let the old, poor business practices out of the market. It most likely would spur technological improvement in the American auto industry and we'd probably come out of it with some really cool inventions and vehicles. It's apparent that the way we've been going about it - bailing out a company that looks as if it gets a big stack of money and then lights it on fire to watch it burn - is not working. How is it even humanly possible to lose 4 BILLION dollars in six months? Of course, this would be a long term improvement as opposed to the short term that everyone keeps their eye on.



US Taxpayers won't, as Toyota is a Japanese company.

EDIT: I don't agree with NASA getting involved under the supervision of the US Government. I also don't know all the details related to that eithe
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Then we can agree on that since NASA is funded by tax payers
money they should not be trying to figure out what Toyota's problem is.
 
black bart said:
Then we can agree on that since NASA is funded by tax payers
money they should not be trying to figure out what Toyota's problem is.
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Absolutely agree. I have my issues with that, same as I do about artificially keeping a poorly run business in the market. The government should not be directly involved in private business (as much as they can stay out of it) because it creates an unfair advantage to certain parties. Sure government has to set some ground rules and oversee some things. But by the US Government bailing out GM and Chrysler, what kind of message does that send? "Ok, guys, but I swear the next time you lose a billion dollars I won't keep you afloat.... wink, wink, nudge, nudge." - Uncle Sam

Just look at Ford and how far they've come in a year's time by NOT taking government hand outs. They've trimmed their own fat and are standing on their own two feet. In the same time frame, GM has done god knows what with 4+ billion dollars. You tell me how the government keeping them alive did GM any kind of long term favor. What it did was tell them that their business practices were acceptable and that the government would take care of them no matter how uncompetitive they are. That's short term vision, and it's not good for the industry.
 
If you did not like your next door neighbor and his house was about to slide off its foundation and possibly damage your house and others in the neighborhood, what you do you?

1. Let it slide on principle since you do not want to bail out people you do not like because they were stupid or made mistakes. We should not reward stupidity even if it means letting it damage your house

2. Help the neighbor protect his house since it will likely help protect your house and others. Try to get him help to resolve some of the neighbor's issues.

If GM suddenly collapsed, it would ripple through the economy. Of course, some like others to fail (governments, politicians) even it means damaging the country.
 
Bunky said:
If you did not like your next door neighbor and his house was about to slide off its foundation and possibly damage your house and others in the neighborhood, what you do you?

1. Let it slide on principle since you do not want to bail out people you do not like because they were stupid or made mistakes. We should not reward stupidity even if it means letting it damage your house

2. Help the neighbor protect his house since it will likely help protect your house and others. Try to get him help to resolve some of the neighbor's issues.

If GM suddenly collapsed, it would ripple through the economy. Of course, some like others to fail (governments, politicians) even it means damaging the country.
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3. Keep fixing the neighbors house "for free" because they obviously can't do it themselves. Therefore they become reliant on you and an unnecessary burden that brings the value of the other houses in the neighborhood down.

As has already been mentioned - we've already helped out "our neighbor." Why should we have to keep propping them up? Either get competitive and profitable or move out of the way for the next player. I'm not at all about stifling creativity, innovation and competition for very short term "gains" (and I use that term loosely). It only hurts us in the long run to keep propping up a failed business model, or at least one that bleeds money profusely.

Would it hurt for GM to go away? Sure it would, for a while. Would someone step in to replace GM? It happens in every other viable industry when a player leaves - don't see why the auto industry is any different.
 
If the economy was not in the worst shape since the depression, I would agree we should let GM fail.

I think the problem we all know is the government (just like many of its citizens) owes a lot more than afford. The GM collapse would just make everything worse at worst possible time. We need to continue hope we can slip through this. The consequences if our loan holders (China, Japan, etc) lose interest in our loans interest rates will shoot up and that will definitely put things in a bind,

Do I like it? No. but I understand the thinking behind it.
 
Bunky said:
If you did not like your next door neighbor and his house was about to slide off its foundation and possibly damage your house and others in the neighborhood, what you do you?

1. Let it slide on principle since you do not want to bail out people you do not like because they were stupid or made mistakes. We should not reward stupidity even if it means letting it damage your house

2. Help the neighbor protect his house since it will likely help protect your house and others. Try to get him help to resolve some of the neighbor's issues.

If GM suddenly collapsed, it would ripple through the economy. Of course, some like others to fail (governments, politicians) even it means damaging the country.
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I would probally just let it slide into mine and let my homeowners buy me a new addition :crazy2:

I do not have a clue as to what to do for a house that is off its foundation. That is not my chosen profession :surrender

My Wife can hardly get me to cut the vines growing up our trees. If I went and helped my neighbor with there foundation issues, she would be really upset with me :love:


Continue on Boys..... :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn
 
JaredPointer said:
Absolutely agree. I have my issues with that, same as I do about artificially keeping a poorly run business in the market. The government should not be directly involved in private business (as much as they can stay out of it) because it creates an unfair advantage to certain parties. Sure government has to set some ground rules and oversee some things. But by the US Government bailing out GM and Chrysler, what kind of message does that send? "Ok, guys, but I swear the next time you lose a billion dollars I won't keep you afloat.... wink, wink, nudge, nudge." - Uncle Sam

Just look at Ford and how far they've come in a year's time by NOT taking government hand outs. They've trimmed their own fat and are standing on their own two feet. In the same time frame, GM has done god knows what with 4+ billion dollars. You tell me how the government keeping them alive did GM any kind of long term favor. What it did was tell them that their business practices were acceptable and that the government would take care of them no matter how uncompetitive they are. That's short term vision, and it's not good for the industry.
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Then your complaint should be with the Obama administration it was their idea to bail everyone out.
Seems like you have it in for GM don't hear any complaints about AIG and all the Billions they got. :confused:

Toyota tried to borrow 16 Billion from the Japanese government but they did not get it.
That is when they cut the employees pay 20%
You say GM should learn to be competitive but with the retirement program and wages that the UAW demands how are they going compete when our government give millions to the import manufactures to build plants here and then they don't pay as well and don't have a retirement program other than contributing a small amount to a 401K that a employ can have.

Other than filing bankruptcy to get out from under those contracts they are screwed.
 
black bart said:
Then your complaint should be with the Obama administration it was their idea to bail everyone out.
Seems like you have it in for GM don't hear any complaints about AIG and all the Billions they got. :confused:

...
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My calendar must be all kinds of messed up. :)
I thought the presidential election was held in November of 2008 and Obama was sworn in January of 2009.

I think the approval of the $25 billion automaker bailout was approved in September of 2008.

Before that there was:

03/08 - $30 billion - Bear Stearns/JP Morgan Chase
09/08 - $100 billion* - Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008
09/08 - $180 billion - AIG
10/08 - $700 billion - TARP

* I think that under Geitner/Obama an additional $100 billion was added to that total

Interestingly (or not) the previous 2 bailouts to '08.

2001 - $19 billion - Air Transportation Safety and Stabilization Act (Bush)

1989 - $53 billion - Financial Institutions Reform Recovery and Enforcement Act (Savings & Loan) (Bush)
 
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