"Glaze"

Beemerboy

Beemerboy

Just One More Coat
For a new person trying to decide what car care line to use, some of the terms that are used by mfgers can be WAY confusing.

I think "glaze" is one of the most misused words in auto care products.

I see companies that use it with polishes, LSP products, etc.


For me a glaze is a step that you take before the LSP or close to that.

The ones that come to mind that I've used are

FK1 Pink hand glaze
Poorboys Black Hole
3M Imperial hand glaze

None of these above can correct paint, clean or add protection. For me that's what a glaze is. For all the rest that use it, I think its for marketing.

Thoughts?
 
I think you have to look at the history of the term to understand why it's definition has gone askew. I have done research on this term and this is best I have found, if anybody has more to add I would love to hear/read it!!!

In the old days (circa 1930's and 1940's) Glazes were essentially waxes with out the wax. They contained the oils and solvents, but did not have any wax for fear for sealing in fresh paint and preventing the old lacquers from curing.

A lot of body shops used to mix glazes with abrasives, corn-starch being a popular one, in order to clean the paint or remove blemishes. Also the old lacquer paints were quite porous and would fade. Adding the oils from the glaze to the paint would seem to revitalize the paint (because the paint would literally drink the oil). Prior, glazes were used as a wax with out wax, but now they became known for their ability to make paint wetter.

While machine polishers were used prior to the 1950's, this is when they really started to show up in body shops. Glaze manufacturers knew they could reach a bigger market if they put abrasives (for polishing) into the glaze, since the the glaze was traditionally the last step. The abrasive or machine glaze was born. From this point on glazes could be abrasive or non abrasive depending on the manufacturer. It was not a matter just a matter of marketing, but rather a description of the product.

In the 1990's (perhaps slightly before) Zymol began to refer to their waxes as glazes in some literature, which later became the infamous Estate Glazes.

Today, the term glaze, outside of Zymol's use, refers to a product that is applied to the paint with out any protective (or very little) ingredients. These could be oil based, acrylic based (which feature polymers identical to a sealant), be abrasive or non-abrasive, and may or may not work with waxes or sealants.
 
I like glaze on my donuts.

Seriously.... It is a very confusing term especially for newbies.

WG finishing Glaze is a perfect example....it is a finishing polish in my eyes.


Good info Todd!
 
Beemerboy said:
For a new person trying to decide what car care line to use, some of the terms that are used by mfgers can be WAY confusing.

I think "glaze" is one of the most misused words in auto care products.

I see companies that use it with polishes, LSP products, etc.


For me a glaze is a step that you take before the LSP or close to that.

The ones that come to mind that I've used are

FK1 Pink hand glaze
Poorboys Black Hole
3M Imperial hand glaze

None of these above can correct paint, clean or add protection. For me that's what a glaze is. For all the rest that use it, I think its for marketing.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
^Thats also what I consider a true glaze.

klasse sealant glaze is one of those products that seems to be a glaze and sealant in one .I think theres a couple others that fall into that catagory.

It would be confusing to a newbe looking for products.
 
Todd Helme said:
Today, the term glaze, outside of Zymol's use, refers to a product that is applied to the paint with out any protective (or very little) ingredients. These could be oil based, acrylic based (which feature polymers identical to a sealant), be abrasive or non-abrasive, and may or may not work with waxes or sealants.
Click to expand...

Gee, Todd. So glad you could clear that up.:rofl

I think we, as professionals or enthusiasts, have a better understanding of what a product does regardless of it's categorical name might imply. The word "polish" is also one that has been used far too loosely by manufacturers in an effort to market to Joe Public. To 99% of the public a product that makes the paint shine will impress them. Most don't know whether it is correcting or concealing, protecting or just glossing, etc.

I chuckle to myself when people tell me they want me to use "product X" because their friend swears by it for their garage queen, even though the product does not meet the needs of their daily driver. It reminds me of drug commercials that tell people to ask their doctor for the drug. Yeah, because a doctor doesn't know what the best treatment is.
 
Its to bad that car care product mfgers don't abide to the same as food mfgers. Truth in labeling.

This was really the only reason I started this thread.

Todd, Thanks for history lesson, I find it more interesting that you have that much knowledge on glazes, or are you pulling this from a data base?
 
The word "polish" is more widely abused in my opinion. The problem is if the market leaders misuse the word it just becomes as valid.
 
Thanks Todd, for that great history lesson !!!

One very good hand or machine glaze of the 80's - 90's was Meguiars No. 7. It was a liquid, a little thick, not runny, yellowish like a poupon mustard, had a nice smell, and was applied by hand or machine on freshly compounded (without swirls) paintwork at the shops I worked in. It always improved the gloss, but as has been aptly said by Todd, the results were fleeting even by the next car wash.

At the annual Sacramento and Bay Area Autorama's, all the guys with the nicest paint were putting this product on their "Baby's" to give them that last bit of gloss. It really made the acrylic lacquers and enamels of that time really pop !
This is also a perfect example of a wax without the wax.

Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Thanks Todd, for that great history lesson !!!

One very good hand or machine glaze of the 90's was Meguiars No. 7. It was a liquid, a little thick, not runny, yellowish like a poupon mustard, had a nice smell, and was applied by hand or machine on freshly compounded (without swirls) paintwork at the shops I worked in. It always improved the gloss, but as has been aptly said by Todd, the results were fleeting even by the next car wash.

At the annual Sacramento and Bay Area Autorama's, all the guys with the nicest paint were putting this product on their "Baby's" to give them that last bit of gloss. It really made the acrylic lacquers and enamels of that time really pop !
This is also a perfect example of a wax without the wax.

Dan F
Click to expand...

Do you recall Meg Mirror Glaze line in the 70's. It was huge with the low riders. It had three or four steps as I recall. I had some for my car, was really hard to work with for what results you got
 
I think polish and glaze are the most over used and confusing terms in the industry. Some use them interchangeably=incorrect.
 
Dave -
Yes I do recall the Meguiars Mirror Glaze line, and I too, could never get it to work well as they said it would. Wow, thanks for reminding me about that stuff - I must have blocked it ! :)

Had better results back then using 3M products to correct and the No. 7 to really pop the paint..

Dan F
 
Beemerboy said:
Its to bad that car care product mfgers don't abide to the same as food mfgers. Truth in labeling.

This was really the only reason I started this thread.

Todd, Thanks for history lesson, I find it more interesting that you have that much knowledge on glazes, or are you pulling this from a data base?
Click to expand...

Your welcome Beemerboy. I'm not sure what you mean by pulling this from a database, if you know of such a data base I would love to look at it! My passion involves most aspects of auto detailing, and once upon a time I had considered writing a book on detailing. I considered an opening chapter on the history of detailing and did a lot of research including reading a couple of older books related to the subject, spoke to old time painters, etc.

As far as truth in labeling, you would first need a committee to assign proper terminology. Is Meguiar's wrong for calling M80 Speed Glaze a glaze? Who is to say they are correct or wrong? It is a machine glaze, and in the bodyshop industry, this is approved terminology. Until there is a standard of terms, which everybody agrees to abide by, then manufacturers are allowed call their products what they want to appeal to the market they choose.

Taking this a small step forward, if you want truth in labeling, as you call it, then read the manufacturers labels and directions. :bigups:bigups:bigups
 
Todd Helme said:

Is Meguiar's wrong for calling M80 Speed Glaze a glaze? Who is to say they are correct or wrong? It is a machine glaze
Click to expand...


Hmm... I don't really classify M80 as a machine glaze. It is a diminishing abrasive polish with a high degree of polishing/feeder oils and a fresh paint safe sealant component. A glaze to me is something that serves no purpose other than to fill defects and has no innate chemical or mechanical corrective ability.

Maybe I'm just being entirely too literal or specific about the terms. :inspector:
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Hmm... I don't really classify M80 as a machine glaze. It is a diminishing abrasive polish with a high degree of polishing/feeder oils and a fresh paint safe sealant component. A glaze to me is something that serves no purpose other than to fill defects and has no innate chemical or mechanical corrective ability.

Maybe I'm just being entirely too literal or specific about the terms. :inspector:
Click to expand...

While we are certainly entitled to our interpenetration of terms, the term MACHINE glaze has been around since the 1950's to describe a product combined the final two steps in fresh paint finishing.

Long before detailers tried to re-write the definition as false labeling, the term glaze described a product that was used to protect new finishes. With the increase in popularity of machine polishers and abrasive polishes, the term MACHINE glaze combined the final two steps (machine polishing and glazing). It seems to me that M80 fits this historically correct definition perfectly.
 
WOW there is a lot of good info here. I have always thought that the term "Glaze" should be for a true filler glaze with no cut and that anything with a cut should be a polish. But that is not how it works. At this point I would be just be happy if you could clearly distinguish what each product was and did.

Truth & Honesty in Labeling... FTW
 
wow, good info.

is an acrylic glaze the same as a polymer-based glaze?

I have black hole, amigo, and blacklight and wonder now if they are all essentially the same thing?
 
TroyScherer said:
WOW there is a lot of good info here. I have always thought that the term "Glaze" should be for a true filler glaze with no cut and that anything with a cut should be a polish. But that is not how it works. At this point I would be just be happy if you could clearly distinguish what each product was and did.

Truth & Honesty in Labeling... FTW
Click to expand...

That's the interesting thing about Glazes and product names in general. The overwhelming majority of glazes (and polishing relating products) are sold to the body shop industry, we (detailers, enthusiasts) make up a very very small fraction of the market. So what we may view as incorrect terminology is quite acceptable by the mass market.

embolism said:
wow, good info.

is an acrylic glaze the same as a polymer-based glaze?

I have black hole, amigo, and blacklight and wonder now if they are all essentially the same thing?
Click to expand...

I would say that no, even though 'glazes' or 'sealants' my use the same base (polymers, acrylic polymers, oil based) the exact ingredients and they way they are made is unique.

A bigger question is if something is an acyrlic (or polymer) glaze, which features cross linking (which it would) then why is it defined as a glaze and not as a sealant?

If the polymers are cross linking (which they must to be effective) then they are offering a sacrificial barrier which (even if not by design) offers some protection for the paint. At what point does it stop being a 'glaze' and start being a sealant? Just food for thought....
 
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