Getting rid of swirl marks on black paint

J

jc_atl

New member
I have a black '02 ford lightning and I've got spiderwebs all over the paint. About a month ago I did:



Wash w/ high concetration of meguiars wash (to try to strip the paint down)

Clay

Wash w/ P21S shampoo

DACP w/ PC w/ orange pad

#26 w/ PC w/ black pad



It didnt really get rid of the swirl marks. However, it was my first time w/ the PC so user error may have played a part. Here is my plan for this time w/ some questions:



Wash w/ P21S

DACP w/ PC w/ orange pad

#9 Swirl Remover 2.0 w/ PC (what pad?)

NXT Tech Wax (by hand or PC?)

#26 (by hand or PC?)



Some questions I have are, do I need the #9 if I use NXT which has some cleaners (right?)? If I do need it, do ya'll think #9 or 3M SMR is better?

Lastly, I guess #26 is not a true carnuba, it's a blend of carnuba w/ other stuff? Is there any point in layering on top of the NXT after it's cured? Will it strip off the NXT while it's being applied?

Would it be better to use #16 or another carnuba (p21s?)?

Thanks
 
jc_atl said:
I have a black '02 ford lightning and I've got spiderwebs all over the paint. About a month ago I did:



Wash w/ high concetration of meguiars wash (to try to strip the paint down)

Clay

Wash w/ P21S shampoo

DACP w/ PC w/ orange pad

#26 w/ PC w/ black pad



It didnt really get rid of the swirl marks. However, it was my first time w/ the PC so user error may have played a part. Here is my plan for this time w/ some questions:



Wash w/ P21S

DACP w/ PC w/ orange pad

#9 Swirl Remover 2.0 w/ PC (what pad?)

NXT Tech Wax (by hand or PC?)

#26 (by hand or PC?)



Some questions I have are, do I need the #9 if I use NXT which has some cleaners (right?)? If I do need it, do ya'll think #9 or 3M SMR is better?

Lastly, I guess #26 is not a true carnuba, it's a blend of carnuba w/ other stuff? Is there any point in layering on top of the NXT after it's cured? Will it strip off the NXT while it's being applied?

Would it be better to use #16 or another carnuba (p21s?)?

Thanks
Click to expand...



I hate to tell you this, but without seeing pictures of how deep the swirl marks are it's like a mechanic trying to fix a car without seeing it.



Suggestions: Please post pictures so myself and other members can better serve you. However without seeing and just reading what you described, my guess is you aren’t using the PC at a fast enough speed (5 or 6 ) and moving to quickly over the panel. A PC is not like an orbital buffer in the sense if you leave it in one spot for a few seconds you're not going to burn the clear coat and paint.



BTW Welcome to the board, look forward to conversing with you.

:wavey

- Randy
 
jc_atl said:
I have a black '02 ford lightning and I've got spiderwebs all over the paint. About a month ago I did:



Wash w/ high concetration of meguiars wash (to try to strip the paint down)

Clay

Wash w/ P21S shampoo

DACP w/ PC w/ orange pad

#26 w/ PC w/ black pad



It didnt really get rid of the swirl marks. However, it was my first time w/ the PC so user error may have played a part. Here is my plan for this time w/ some questions:



Wash w/ P21S

DACP w/ PC w/ orange pad

#9 Swirl Remover 2.0 w/ PC (what pad?)

NXT Tech Wax (by hand or PC?)

#26 (by hand or PC?)



Some questions I have are, do I need the #9 if I use NXT which has some cleaners (right?)? If I do need it, do ya'll think #9 or 3M SMR is better?

Lastly, I guess #26 is not a true carnuba, it's a blend of carnuba w/ other stuff? Is there any point in layering on top of the NXT after it's cured? Will it strip off the NXT while it's being applied?

Would it be better to use #16 or another carnuba (p21s?)?

Thanks
Click to expand...



jc,



First off I believe that what "pwr" meant to write was that the PC is not like a "rotary" in that it will burn the paint if left in one place to long. The PC is much the same as an "orbital".



OK, now on to your paint problem.



If you have clayed the car that will strip anything that might be on it, like waxes and such. Besides you say that you used DACP which would also clean the surface. No need to wash your car twice either, that's just a waste of car soap and water.



The PC with an "orange" pad and DACP may in fact add more swirls or better, "marring", than it does help in removing them. Also understand that a PC doesn't generate enough heat and friction to properly level paint down, unless of course you move it very.........very slowly and have to go over an area multiple times. of course I have no ideas how bad your marring is.



Your better choice would be to use a white polishing pad with the DACP, on speed 5, and just really work it into the paint, until almost all gone. In your original plan you had no intermediate step between the DACP and the #26, this is critical because the #26 has no polishing properties. You need to have one more fine polishing step after the DACP, something like Menzerna Final Polish or Cleansing Lotion or even Meguiars #3. Use these products with a black finishing pad and again take your time with the PC.



Now you are ready for either a layer of AIO and then seal or go directly to a wax/sealant.



In your next plan of attack you have way to many steps, especially finishing steps. The #9 is a nice product but it does not really remove the moderate to heavy marring left over from the DACP but rather fills or hides them, besides since NXT has some cleaning properties it may remove the filling qualities of the #9. I personally would skip the #9 and use AIO instead and then top that with a nice sealant or perhaps even the #26 (I don't use #26 personally).



So in summary, if your marring is heavy, nothing but a pro with skilled hands using a rotary will remove them, stop washing twice, and your pad/product choice is critical as the wrong ones will only add more marring than it removes.



Hope that helps,

Anthony
 
Anthony, I dont know about JC, but you helped me ! I have a Black Camry tomorrow, which the owners daughter took a Scotchbrite pad to. Its not "too" serious, i went over last wknd to pre inspect, and did some satisfying work by hand with DACP, and 3M SMR, followed with VM, then temp. sealed. I think tomorrows approach will be DACP, either WG, Plat, or BF polish, and sister seal....I may throw in IHG after the DACP as an afterthought. Any conflict with either of the above polishes if i do use the 3M IHG ?, or may i be better of using what little filling prop's the 3M SMR has....This will be the most serious of "repairs" i will have performed.......
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
Anthony, I dont know about JC, but you helped me ! I have a Black Camry tomorrow, which the owners daughter took a Scotchbrite pad to. Its not "too" serious, i went over last wknd to pre inspect, and did some satisfying work by hand with DACP, and 3M SMR, followed with VM, then temp. sealed. I think tomorrows approach will be DACP, either WG, Plat, or BF polish, and sister seal....I may throw in IHG after the DACP as an afterthought. Any conflict with either of the above polishes if i do use the 3M IHG ?, or may i be better of using what little filling prop's the 3M SMR has....This will be the most serious of "repairs" i will have performed.......
Click to expand...



Patrick,



Glad to be of help:)



The IHG adds lots of depth and wetness to a paint but it can also add many headaches! I have found that the Wolfgang has some cleaning properties so it may remove the IHG as may also the BF Polish. I have also had some bad experience with #7 and IHG when topping with UPP.



I would go with your original use of DACP, 3M SMR and if all looks well, then lay down some AIO. This will give you lots of color and depth, much like the IHG, but with little to no headaches:up Then the UPP.



If WG is more your taste then in place of the AIO I would use Menzerna FP.



I hope that helps you out some more and if not please let me know.



Anthony
 
pwr4all3 and Anthony, thanks for the help, I will try to post pictures and in the meantime I guess I need to do a little more research
 
ok i think this is what i've decided on. I've more or less decided not to use meguiar's products except for the DACP, please let me know if i'm going in the wrong direction:



Wash w/ P21S shampoo

Clay

DACP w/ PC w/ white pad

P21S Cleansing Lotion w/ PC w/ black finishing pad

AIO w/ PC w/ (white pad kept damp?)

UPP (how should I apply this?)
 
Anthony Orosco said:
The IHG adds lots of depth and wetness to a paint but it can also add many headaches!
Click to expand...



what kind of headaches with the IHG? i was planning on doing my car with DACP, IHG, NXT. (or maybe just DACP to NXT, which appears to have some filling properties).
 
Some general observations/ my 40.02 on some of the Q's being posted on this thread-



Most people need to follow DACP with a milder, but still abrasive product. P21S' GEPC will not always be aggressive enough for this step, and the BF/UPP polishes won't be. And if you're trying to remove DACP hazing, *I* would use a polishing pad instead of a finishing pad. Menzerna FP on a polishing pad would be a good example of what to use for this (this recently worked great for another Autopian who had DACP hazing).



Using something with cleaners AIO, BF/UPP polishes) after IHG will pretty much defeat the point of using the IHG. IHG is just oils and fillers (check the label). It's good for what it is, but it's not something to use before AIO. Likewise, while UPP bonds with a lot of products, I wouldn't put it over IHG without using the polish either. No, I haven't actually tried the two together, but having used both quite a bit I'd say it's asking for trouble. Ditto for using IHG right before BF.



Similarly, using AIO after GEPC will, to some extent, defeat the purpose of *that*. GEPC contains fillers, which the AIO will at least partially remove. But GEPC also contains some *very* mild abrasives and other cleaners, so it wouldn't be a totally wasted step. But I dunno if it's something really worth doing.



If you want to use something glaze-like before NXT, *I* would suggest sticking with a Meg's product. Their glazes (or "pure polishes", as they refer to them) like #3, #5, #7, #81 will work well under the NXT (the mild "cleaners" in NXT won't cause any problems).



I apply UPP with either a foam or MF applicator. Thin, very thin. I let it set up for as long as I can before buffing it off. Inspect carefully, it sometimes takes a few passes to get all the residue off. I prefer CBTs and suede-style MFs for removal. It took two CBTs and three suede-style MFs to get it all off the S8, and that was with the thinnest coats I could apply.
 
I agree with Accumulator completely.

DACP hazing....is that what that was?

It definitely dulled down the paint and I wasn't sure what was causing it.

Going over it with the DACP and another pad with a generous amount of fresh product helped but the #9 removed it completely.

I can tell you that the Meguiars Hand Polish didn't and this is why I switched my method.
 
Deemo said:
..DACP hazing....is that what that was?

It definitely dulled down the paint and I wasn't sure what was causing it.

Going over it with the DACP and another pad with a generous amount of fresh product helped but the #9 removed it completely.

I can tell you that the Meguiars Hand Polish didn't...
Click to expand...



In many cases, between the need to *really* break down the abrasives in #83, and the general level of those abrasives, you just can't get a perfect, ready-to-wax finish with #83 alone. As you noticed, a milder pad will work to some extent, but non-abrasive measures like #81 just don't work for this the way mild abrasives (like the #9) do.
 
That's interesting.

I previously thought that Hand Polish was more abrasive than #9 but the results speak for themselves.

Thanks for the reassurance:bounce

I just need to redo the hood and some of the front quarters as it still looks a tiny bit duller than I had hoped - but the rest is fine.

That is where I used the HP right after the DACP with no other followup.
 
So does that mean that my #83, #9, #81, #26 should do the trick (albiet a complete day's work) pretty well? (Black GM paint, medium swirls)
 
PFDarkside- Yeah, that'll do it, but expect it to be a fair job of work. The #81 isn't strictly necessary, but it *does* add a little something if used *after* the #9. Just make sure that you get things as good as you can with both the #83 and the #9, if you don't, the #81 and your wax won't fix it. Hard to overemphasize how much you have to work the #83 before you switch to #9.



Deemo- Try using the #81 again, after getting things just right with the #9. You'll get a different view of the #81 if you use it as a true "pre-wax glaze" on an already great finish.
 
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