imported_turbomangt
New member
Check out this web site and tell me what you think. I wish I knew where these companies get their information?
http://www.5starshine.com
http://www.5starshine.com
Five Star Marketing
- Thread starter imported_turbomangt
- Start date
jfelbab
New member
They make it up?
I've had a couple people rave to me about 5 Star recently. It gets especially bad when they find out that detailing is my hobby; one guy kept spouting about years of protection, etc. My typical response is to say "That's nice, how great for you!" and change the subject, but one guy was very persistent and was trying to "sell" me on the product.
I'll say up front that his (almost new) car had a very nice slippery finish, comparable to UPP; but it was titanium metallic clearcoat and I couldn't tell any extra benefits from the 5 Star. It took quite a bit of tongue biting to keep from saying that there's no such thing as one year paint sealant, let alone 5 years. It was at a picnic and I didn't want to get into an argument, so I told him that it was an aminofunctional silicone polymer, and that the polytetraflourethylene was there not for protection but to increase spreadability, and then I excused myself saying I had to get another beer.
What was it WC Fields said? "Never give a sucker an even break, nor smarten up a chump." Well, once someone has already bought the stuuff, you gotta tell him how nice his car looks and move on.
Tom
But whatever.
I'll say up front that his (almost new) car had a very nice slippery finish, comparable to UPP; but it was titanium metallic clearcoat and I couldn't tell any extra benefits from the 5 Star. It took quite a bit of tongue biting to keep from saying that there's no such thing as one year paint sealant, let alone 5 years. It was at a picnic and I didn't want to get into an argument, so I told him that it was an aminofunctional silicone polymer, and that the polytetraflourethylene was there not for protection but to increase spreadability, and then I excused myself saying I had to get another beer.
What was it WC Fields said? "Never give a sucker an even break, nor smarten up a chump." Well, once someone has already bought the stuuff, you gotta tell him how nice his car looks and move on.
Tom
But whatever.
Wasatch
New member
jfelbab said:
Agree
Corey Bit Spank
Active member
it ranks up there with the amazing talcum powder remover.
wannafbody
wannafbody
IMO a one year sealant isn't farfetched- Nufinish, TW and Finish Kare all claim 1 year durability. Many manufactureres and users are willing to sacrifice durability for other charactaristics such as depth,glow or shine.
salty
Active member
Hey what do you mean, i am using 6 star Oniaz, it lasts for 6 years.
wannafbody said:
That is the argument Chad posited when he used to post here defending 5 Star. I will give strong kudos to the man for not avoiding the hard questions, but that doesn't mean I have to believe in his products. Even the longest lasting sealant won't protect for a year, just like the best looking products won't reflect like a mirror or be as deep as the ocean. And if the chemical were that persistent in the environment, then it would be harmful, and it would probably be banned.
Simple. If it was special, it wouldn't be marketed on ebay, and mock websites designed as consumer tutorials (such as this one that appears to give car buying tips: "AVOID THE PAINT SEALANT SCAM!" lol, "Fall for OUR scam instead, it's cheaper!" and through forums, and to consumers and end users. It would be marketed to GM, BMW, Daimler/Chrysler, Honda. And it wouldn't be for use on cars, it would be for use on everything.
The person who owns 5 Star Shine sells instruction on internet marketing, and he uses his success with 5 Star as his example. And I would suspect that he also sells franchises, seeing as how 5 Star Shine is popping up all over the place on ebay and websites that don't contain the words "5 Star Shine" in the url.
Tom
wannafbody
wannafbody
well in the case of Finish Kare some of their products are OEM approved and several use their products prior to shipping for protection. IMO a 5 year product is marketed for someone who doesn't want to maintain their finish.
imported_themightytimmah
New member
Oh its a 5 year sealant alright........5 years until your clearcoat fails. I think what people here fail to realize is that there is no chance in hell it will provide Autopian level protection/shine for 5 years, but most people just assume that paint will look lousy over time, hence they feel that it is working. I had one customer tell me that she wanted to trade in her 2002 Volvo "cause the paint is gone". About 6 hours via PC and a little SSR2.5 later, she stood corrected 
.
.wannafbody
wannafbody
1 year? I'm not so sure. I applied some NXT tech wax to my single stage red work van. the van is never washed and looks pretty bad. the test spot's haze was wiped away except for the outer edge. you can see where the NXT was applied due to the slight difference in shine and oxidation. the outer edge haze remains about 10 months later. the same for our work trailer-I waxed (about 10 months ago) with a cheap spray wax and after wiping it rehazed in spots-the rehaze will remove with a cloth or swipe of a finger. If the haze will last 10 months what makes you think the polymer protection is gone. Wouldn't the haze wear away first?
wannafbody, my reply to your pm was too long, so I'm posting it here.
NXT lasts a long time, but I don't think even Meguair's would claim a year for it.
I'm not sure what the haze you're referring to is. And for residue around the emblems, well if you took a bottle of NXT and left it open, it wouldn't evaporate to nothing, it would dry up and leave a chalky residue. But that's not a film, and this is all about film technology.
We're talking about films of chemicals a few molecules thick. If you were to apply the product and then pull the car into the garage and leave it, then it would probably last a year. But as soon as you pull it out into the world and the film starts to get attacked by dirt, pollen, pollution, rain, snow, salt, gasoline, etc then the film starts to abrade. When you get swirls from washing, those swirls cut through the film and create huge gaps. The molecules don't automatically reconnect over that gap, the film doesn't "heal"; instead, everywhere there is an edge, the film starts to wear away.
There are no standards for what constitutes "lasts a year" or "lasts five years". No one comes around and checks. If you read the fine print that backs these claims, they don't say that their product lasts five years. What they do is they warrant that if you apply their product to a new car they will warrant the finish for five years. They don't say that it will last five years; they guarantee five years of satisfaction. That's a very different thing. I have 16 years selling aftermarket products to end users (individual consumers). I know what these chemicals are, and I've read the fine print.
The best paint sealants I know of will last about 6 months, outside 24/7. That's pretty good, I think; that's a tough chemical. It's a generic bulk product sold directly to volume users. It is a standard aminofunctional silicone polymer that uses ptfe as a carrying agent to increase spreadability. The best of the systems sold to consumers include a paint cleaning step to help increase durability; if you apply the sealant over contaminants, then the film will be compromised sooner due to the contaminants. You might also notice that the one-step products like NuFinish have a high cleaner content, for the same reason. It's not about bonding, this stuff sticks to anything once it forms a film; it's about increasing durability by removing contaminants that compromise the film.
Remove yourself from product claims for a moment and ask yourself: if you were a small manufacturer that developed a chemical with these properties, the ability to maintain a film against the elements for five years (or even one year), what would it be worth really? Is it credible to think that such a company would succeed where DuPont, Monsanto, 3M, GmBH, BASF and others couldn't? (I leave Meguiar's out because large as they are in the car care field, they are like a fly to an elephant when it comes to these guys.) Engineering is really all about research money. What is more credible is that these chemicals have been around a long time and are being used by many different companies for the same thing, and that they are being MARKETED in different ways by some companies.
If you want to get comparable product for cheap, order some of the bulk sealant from Chemical Guys or any one of a number of places. If you get a paint cleaner and a sealant you will have both parts of a two part system... starting to sound familiar? If you get cleaner, polish, shampoo, and sealant, you have Finish Kare System.
There's nothing new here, other than implied claims. Look at the websites pushing 5 Star: "trustmymechanic.com", "cardetective.com", "buy-and-sell-car-secrets.com", etc. Part of the marketing ploy is to surround the pitch with other "useful" content, making the recommendation of 5 Star look off-hand and like it's coming from a consumer advocate. Read the 5 Star website closely; all you'll see is testimonials. Read the "independent test"; 5 Star isn't compared to other products, it is compared to... nothing, and it is compared for its ability to repel distilled water. Any other paint sealant might have worked as well, or better, or worse. But we can't tell that from the test. All we know is that "a major car wax" failed after 25 washings. Kit? Turtle Wax? Meguiar's Gold Class? Who knows, we are never told.
If it was that easy, everyone would do it. But it's not.
Tom
NXT lasts a long time, but I don't think even Meguair's would claim a year for it.
I'm not sure what the haze you're referring to is. And for residue around the emblems, well if you took a bottle of NXT and left it open, it wouldn't evaporate to nothing, it would dry up and leave a chalky residue. But that's not a film, and this is all about film technology.
We're talking about films of chemicals a few molecules thick. If you were to apply the product and then pull the car into the garage and leave it, then it would probably last a year. But as soon as you pull it out into the world and the film starts to get attacked by dirt, pollen, pollution, rain, snow, salt, gasoline, etc then the film starts to abrade. When you get swirls from washing, those swirls cut through the film and create huge gaps. The molecules don't automatically reconnect over that gap, the film doesn't "heal"; instead, everywhere there is an edge, the film starts to wear away.
There are no standards for what constitutes "lasts a year" or "lasts five years". No one comes around and checks. If you read the fine print that backs these claims, they don't say that their product lasts five years. What they do is they warrant that if you apply their product to a new car they will warrant the finish for five years. They don't say that it will last five years; they guarantee five years of satisfaction. That's a very different thing. I have 16 years selling aftermarket products to end users (individual consumers). I know what these chemicals are, and I've read the fine print.
The best paint sealants I know of will last about 6 months, outside 24/7. That's pretty good, I think; that's a tough chemical. It's a generic bulk product sold directly to volume users. It is a standard aminofunctional silicone polymer that uses ptfe as a carrying agent to increase spreadability. The best of the systems sold to consumers include a paint cleaning step to help increase durability; if you apply the sealant over contaminants, then the film will be compromised sooner due to the contaminants. You might also notice that the one-step products like NuFinish have a high cleaner content, for the same reason. It's not about bonding, this stuff sticks to anything once it forms a film; it's about increasing durability by removing contaminants that compromise the film.
Remove yourself from product claims for a moment and ask yourself: if you were a small manufacturer that developed a chemical with these properties, the ability to maintain a film against the elements for five years (or even one year), what would it be worth really? Is it credible to think that such a company would succeed where DuPont, Monsanto, 3M, GmBH, BASF and others couldn't? (I leave Meguiar's out because large as they are in the car care field, they are like a fly to an elephant when it comes to these guys.) Engineering is really all about research money. What is more credible is that these chemicals have been around a long time and are being used by many different companies for the same thing, and that they are being MARKETED in different ways by some companies.
If you want to get comparable product for cheap, order some of the bulk sealant from Chemical Guys or any one of a number of places. If you get a paint cleaner and a sealant you will have both parts of a two part system... starting to sound familiar? If you get cleaner, polish, shampoo, and sealant, you have Finish Kare System.
There's nothing new here, other than implied claims. Look at the websites pushing 5 Star: "trustmymechanic.com", "cardetective.com", "buy-and-sell-car-secrets.com", etc. Part of the marketing ploy is to surround the pitch with other "useful" content, making the recommendation of 5 Star look off-hand and like it's coming from a consumer advocate. Read the 5 Star website closely; all you'll see is testimonials. Read the "independent test"; 5 Star isn't compared to other products, it is compared to... nothing, and it is compared for its ability to repel distilled water. Any other paint sealant might have worked as well, or better, or worse. But we can't tell that from the test. All we know is that "a major car wax" failed after 25 washings. Kit? Turtle Wax? Meguiar's Gold Class? Who knows, we are never told.
If it was that easy, everyone would do it. But it's not.
Tom
wannafbody
wannafbody
good posts-I agree that the claims of some manufacturers are based on a best case scenario that doesn't minic real world conditions and many of them recomend additional products with protective qualities. My work van never gets washed so a product might last longer on it than other vehicles. For my car I regularly use Booster wax so I'm not really concerned about a product with 1 year claims.
Previous TW FAQ said that Super Hard Shell can give one year protection for garaged car.
By the way, what do you think about independent reviews about five star shine product?
http://honda-acura.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149760
By the way, Simoniz sells 5 year teflon protection plan. I saw a Mercedes dealer in MA, USA, offer similar thing: expensive teflon coating, and 5 year guarantee.
By the way, what do you think about independent reviews about five star shine product?
http://honda-acura.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149760
By the way, Simoniz sells 5 year teflon protection plan. I saw a Mercedes dealer in MA, USA, offer similar thing: expensive teflon coating, and 5 year guarantee.
kompressornsc
New member
ktlimq said:
LOL! I love the way half the posts are 'chadster' bumping the thread.
And 6 months now? Wow! Only another 54 to go to see how long it lasts.