Experienced in everything detailing except polishing, need beginner tips.

R

Ry518

New member
Hi all,



After browsing for a while on here, I still can't really find solid beginner's polishing info. I'm talking total beginner! I'm very very knowledgeable about washing claying waxing and protecting (exterior and interior) but I know NOTHING about polishing and paint correction.



I currently have a 2006 black ford five hundred sedan which I bought 3 years ago which I keep mint and do all the detailing maintenance myself (except never polished it or had it polished, and it was never polished by the previous owner who was the original owner). I will be keeping it for a long time, 'til it's demise. With my last car, I did all the detailing maintenance as well but I paid someone to polish it a few times. So i'm very experienced with everything except polishing!



Nothing too bad or deep in the paint but definately covered with scratches and swirls that polishing would correct. Any tips or links that are for a total newbie would be great. I will be buying a machine polisher soon, so which one would you recommend and what accessories/polish would be best? Keep in mind that I don't have any previous experience with this, including the trial and error experience you get from polishing a vehicle a few times, so I hope not to do anything wrong and damage the paint or finish.



Thanks much.
 
Glad to see you are willing to jump right into the madness like the rest of us ! :D



Seriously, there are a lot of options to look into that are good. As far as polishers go, there are only three really worth looking into for starting off:



Porter Cable 7424 XP

Meguiars Dual Action Polisher G110v2

Griots Garage 6 inch Random Orbital Polisher



Personally, I chose the Griots and I dont regret it; its a darn good machine that has some grunt behind it, while not being too rough on the hands (older d/a machines Ive used had a tendency to be very shaky, and over time wreaked havoc with the nerves in my hands and fingers). While that was my choice, any one of these would be a good start off solution as they have a lot more power over their parents, and can do much more work without fatiguing fingers, wrist, arms, etc.



As for pads and polishes, there are even more options to choose from. Without seeing the condition of your car's paint, what you are willing to do in terms of correction, and what you ultimately want the paint to look like, it is hard to give you a recommendation. Stick around, check out the some of the click and brags, visit some other forums and you'll have a ton of useful knowledge before you know it.



Here's a nice video from Mike Philips that can help you step into doing swirl removal. As best as I can guess, the techniques he presents are pretty much used by many of us that work on a variety of cars. Once youve got you preference dialed in for your car, you can pretty much repeat as needed. Just heep in mind though, you dont have to absolutely use what he's using, but you can get an idea of how to cultivate the skillset:



porter-2-20-10



Good luck to you, and be sure to post up some pics of your progress when you can!
 
My situation is similar to yours in that I've been detailing my cars for years but only recently got into Machine Polishing so perhaps my thought process will help you. I will only be polishing my two cars (2007 Passat Wagon and wife's 97 Escort Wagon-soon to be replaced) and perhaps a relative or friend's car now and then so I wanted to keep costs reasonable but make sure I purchased everything I'd need to get the job done.



I read incessantly for a couple of months on this and other forums and watched videos on suppliers websites, forums and youtube and am really greatful to all the super advice given by others on these sights. There are hundreds of ways to do this, but this is what I culled from everything I read:

The Groit's Garage 6" is the most powerful of the DA machines and has a lifetime warranty so that was a no brainer for me. I bought the one with a 10' cord and got a 12' extension for $7 at HD.



I decided to use HD Uno as a polish as it would keep costs down and shorten the learning curve--UNO cuts, polishes and finishes based on the pad, speed, pressure and arm speed and does this with no dusting. For $18 you get enough to do 4-6 cars and a free bottle of POXY sealant to boot. With other products you could easily spend $50-$100 getting a compound, polish and finishing polish and then have to learn how to use each one.



Everythhing I read said 5.5" flat pads were the way to go -- most effective, easier to control and cost less. So I decided on Buff & Shine pads (UBERs are the same pad) because their Velcro is recessed 1/4" from the edge of the pad for a little extra safety when polishing near adjacent paint and protrusions like mirrors etc. B&S pads appear to be the exact same foam as the HD pads for use with UNO and POXY so I purchased 5 orange, 4 green and 3 red pads. Mixed six packs of 5.5" pads can be had for $35 - 6" six packs are $50 -- so you save enough on the first six pack to get the 5" backing plate. I also bought a 3.5" backing plate and 2 each of B&S 4" pads in corresponding colors for small areas (also got 2 yellows if I run into any deeper scratches in isolated areas) Cleaning my pads with Dawn Power Disolver which you can buy at Walmart for less than $3--plenty of pros out there using this with no problems.



Once I had everything there was a real urge to just jump right in and do everything but I decided to take it slow. I gave my car a coat of POXY and my wife's car a coat of DG 105 with red pads (these pads now become dedicated to these sealants) to get a feel of using a polisher since you use slower speeds to apply LSPs and I'm glad I took this step. I got a sense of how to keep the pad level and how to handle curves in the surface and realized I can control the GG much better without the handle. Also realized I'm glad I got the pads with the recessed Velcro especially around the roof racks on these two cars and that you still need some small foam pads to hand apply product in some areas. So you will need something to do some hand polishing also--HD has DUO pads that have orange foam on one side which will have some cut with the UNO for very small areas.



For polishing I'm lucky in that I have my wife's older car to use for practice (maybe you could find a friend who has an older car who would like a free polishing). I divided the hood into 4 sections each about 20" X 20" to do 2 test areas -- green pad with 4 passes at speed 6, 2 at speed 3--green pad with 6 passes at 6, 2 at 3, orange pad with 4 passes at 6, 2 at speed 3 and orange pad with 6 passes at speed 6 and 2 at speed 3--all with UNO. To my delight all came out great, but with closer inspection you could see the improvement with each section. Each section finished down well enough that I might not have to do a second step on her car before applying an LSP since it will soon be replaced.



All in all I'm really pleased with my decisions, but now really anxious for the weather to warm up a bit so I can do both cars completely.

As I said, read as much as you can and watch as many videos as you can. There are short videos on the HD sight with each product (UNO and POXY) and there are allot of good articles and videos here Articles by Mike Phillips - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum



Also, if you're not in a big rush Amazon sometimes has the GG on sale for $80 for just the polisher or $100 in a kit that sells normally for $200--watch the Gold Box Deals and be ready to act fast as they usually sell out in 3 or 4 hours.



Hope this all is of some help to you! Good Luck!! Perhaps others with more experience will chime in with comments on my process.
 
Thanks guys for the tips, much appreciated!



Yeah I def need a polisher that's easy on the hands and wrist, have tendontis for a while now in my right hand and i'm right handed. I know about the few main polishers. They are all basically the same in most ways incl low hand strain?



Basically think of a car that's been very well taken care of since new (2006) with everything except polishing and that's basically it. No deep scratches, but lots of mild ones and some swirls. I want the paint to be as shiny as possible. Good product recommendations?



Let me make sure about the order of things as well: thorough wash, clay, mild wash, polish, mild wash, wax?



I'll take some up-close pics soon but here are some basic non up-close pics of the car taken in the fall:



2dufh2d.jpg




28jcxl.jpg
 
So i've been reading all the recommended links here. I'm kind of confused. There isn't really any "paint" correction being done with polishing then? Shouldn't it be called clearcoat correction? With polisihing you're basically sanding down the clearcoat a little bit each time, to the deepness of the scratches, so they dissapear and even out? If you polish all the way down to the paint layer, then your car will have no clearcoat and be paint-only and won't be shiny at all.



That, and with all the products and polishes out there, what would you recommend I start with? Basically you need the polisher machine itself, a few different pads in different sizes and textures, a few different polishes with different abrasive levels, and masking tape. What about the swirl stuff they were talking about in one of the videos? What are the best pads and polishes and all that? :/
 
Ry518 said:
So i've been reading all the recommended links here. I'm kind of confused. There isn't really any "paint" correction being done with polishing then? Shouldn't it be called clearcoat correction? With polisihing you're basically sanding down the clearcoat a little bit each time, to the deepness of the scratches, so they dissapear and even out? If you polish all the way down to the paint layer, then your car will have no clearcoat and be paint-only and won't be shiny at all.



That, and with all the products and polishes out there, what would you recommend I start with? Basically you need the polisher machine itself, a few different pads in different sizes and textures, a few different polishes with different abrasive levels, and masking tape. What about the swirl stuff they were talking about in one of the videos? What are the best pads and polishes and all that? :/
Click to expand...
Keep in mind these links are talking about the "traditional" correction tecniques which use multiple products for different steps. As I mentioned in my initial post: HD Uno as a polish as it would keep costs down and shorten the learning curve--UNO cuts, polishes and finishes based on the pad, speed, pressure and arm speed and does this with no dusting. For $18 you get enough to do 4-6 cars and a free bottle of POXY sealant to boot. With other products you could easily spend $50-$100 getting a compound, polish and finishing polish and then have to learn how to use each one.



If UNO doesn't work out I can always move on to "traditional" products and have only wasted $18. If it does work out I've saved allot of money and time. Same with pads--I can always add MF pads if the foam pads are not correcting quickly enough.
 
Sound good, i'll try the HD Uno. I'll prob grab a cutting and finishing polish just in case.



As for the polishers:

Porter Cable 7424 XP

Meguiars Dual Action Polisher G110v2

Griots Garage 6 inch Random Orbital Polisher



What are the warrantys on the three? And are there different size backing plates available for all three? (so you can use smaller pads for narrow and tighter sections on the car. Doesn't matter if smaller backing plates come with the polisher or you have to buy it separately btw).
 
Ry518 said:
Thanks guys for the tips, much appreciated!



Yeah I def need a polisher that's easy on the hands and wrist, have tendontis for a while now in my right hand and i'm right handed. I know about the few main polishers. They are all basically the same in most ways incl low hand strain?
Click to expand...



Yes, pretty much all of them are much milder in terms of vibrations over the original units.



Basically think of a car that's been very well taken care of since new (2006) with everything except polishing and that's basically it. No deep scratches, but lots of mild ones and some swirls. I want the paint to be as shiny as possible. Good product recommendations?
Click to expand...



Personally at this stage, I think it would be better to keep things simple and use a glaze with whatever polisher you choose. This way, you can get a feel for how the machine will work before you get more agresssive.



Pad options:



Meguiars sof buff polishing and finishing pads. Incidentally, ADS and other vendors are offering package deals on d/a polisher and pads. Heres an example of packages to look at: Meguiar's G110V2 DA Polisher Specials



Glaze options:



ClearKote Red machine glaze clearkote.com - Red Moose Machine Glaze



The Detail Shoppe Wet glaze 2.0 Wet Glaze 2.0



Chemical Guys Ez Creme glaze with Acrylic shine EZ Creme GLAZE w/acrylic shine.



Let me make sure about the order of things as well: thorough wash, clay, mild wash, polish, mild wash, wax?
Click to expand...



thorough wash

clay

polish

mild wash (if needed)

wax



I'll take some up-close pics soon but here are some basic non up-close pics of the car taken in the fall:



2dufh2d.jpg




28jcxl.jpg
Click to expand...



Best to take some snaps with the sun reflecting off the paint. Or, get yourself a good flashlight to help show up what the defects are.
 
Here's a pic I just took. Haven't done a good hand wash since the fall. Looks like i'll have to re-think my snow removal techniques next winter lol. Looks like this is from snow brush. This is the hood. Most of the dots and specs are just dirt and debris that are on top of the paint and not fused in. I didn't do a wash or quick wipe down before I took this pic. Basically nothing too much deeper than the scratches here anywhere on the car, but overall this is the worst:



1z1d6pz.jpg




Another question.. How do I polish in the wierd/tight spots on the car? like around and under the door handles, the pillars from the hood to the roof, etc.. Have to do it by hand? Which of the Three polishers listed have smaller backing plates that you can buy?
 
The hood is basically as worse as it gets. Some similar scratches on the roof and trunk. Here is a pic of the door and a pic of one of the rear panels. Most things you can't even see unless in direct sunlight and way up close. What you guys think?



jfu9f4.jpg




qs61ko.jpg
 
Ry518 said:
Another question.. How do I polish in the wierd/tight spots on the car? like around and under the door handles, the pillars from the hood to the roof, etc.. Have to do it by hand? Which of the Three polishers listed have smaller backing plates that you can buy?
Click to expand...
All of the polishers will accept smaller backing plates--2.75" for 3" pads, 3.5" for 4" pads and 5" for 5.5" pads which will help with smaller, tighter areas, but there will always be some spots to do by hand. Did you see the special on the Groits polisher(the only one with a lifetime warranty) running by Detailers Domain?
 
pwaug said:
All of the polishers will accept smaller backing plates--2.75" for 3" pads, 3.5" for 4" pads and 5" for 5.5" pads which will help with smaller, tighter areas, but there will always be some spots to do by hand. Did you see the special on the Groits polisher(the only one with a lifetime warranty) running by Detailers Domain?
Click to expand...



Ah $130, nice! Was thinking of the griot's actually via the lifetime warranty. Might go for it.
 
Ry518 said:
Ah $130, nice! Was thinking of the griot's actually via the lifetime warranty. Might go for it.
Click to expand...



The Detailers Domain offer is definitely hard to refuse, especially considering the pads that come with it. I have 3 other machines that I use on a seni-regular basis: makita rotary, makita d/a with forced rotation (similar to the more popular flex), and an older version porter cable d/a. Out of all the machines, the Griots gets the most workout, with the rotary coming in second.



Now, as to teh picture you posted, it looks pretty typical of most cars that I see (my seasons starts in spring and ends late fall early winter). I still think starting out with a glaze is a good idea, however, if you are set on trying to correct the defects, experimenting with UNO is not a bad idea either. I say experiment because Ive found, like many others more skilled than I am, that black paints can be challenging to work out, even when they are factory finishes.



All that said, here's a quick lil video from HD Car care showing how to work with Uno.






Some quick suggestions:



If you are going with the a Meguiars package, start with the polishing pad, If you go with the Griots package, first try polishing with the green pad.



Work in a 12 by 12 test section. make a fw overlapping passes (left to right and foward to backward). Use slow arm speed and medium pressure while insuring that the pad is spinning on the paint, wipe off the residue and inspect. If you are not getting the swirls out, then step up to the next aggressive pad in your kit pad and repeat.



Also, very important, clean your pads after youve done parts or whole panels you work on. This insures youll get consistent buffing results.



This ones a good pad cleaner option. Its Meguiars pad conditioning brush, and you can order it same time you are going with either the meguiars da kit or the griots da kit:



31hDK1cGGRL._SL500_AA300_.jpg




Once you've dialed in the pad(s) for the correction, youll want to follow up with a light polishing step to remove any haze that occurs. For the megs kit, go with the finishing pad. If you go with the griots, go with the blue or the black pad. Reduce the machine speed to about 3-4, again use medium pressure to keep the pad spinning on the paint and keep arm speed slow. After a few passes lighten up on the pressure and make some more passes, keeping the arm speed slow. Wipe off residue and inspect.



If all works out, you just ned to clean off the residue, and put on your wax or sealant.



Good luck, and let us know how you are making out.
 
So polishing is basically sanding down the clearcoat to the point of the imperfection, so it's all smooth? What happens after you have a car for a long time, you polish twice a year, and even though you do it the correct way, the clearcoat starts to dissapear and the car is now down to the regular paint? Have to find a place to reapply a clearcoat layer to the car? How do you go about finding a legit quality place and who knows which is the best clearcoat brand to apply?
 
Ry518 said:
So polishing is basically sanding down the clearcoat to the point of the imperfection, so it's all smooth?
Click to expand...



Yes, exactly. You're just "sanding" with the foam pad/polish rather than some other abrasive medium like sandpaper.



What happens after you have a car for a long time, you polish twice a year, and even though you do it the correct way, the clearcoat starts to dissapear and the car is now down to the regular paint? Have to find a place to reapply a clearcoat layer to the car? How do you go about finding a legit quality place and who knows which is the best clearcoat brand to apply?
Click to expand...



That concern is why you can't/shouldn't polish very often, and thus why minimizing the marring in the first place (generally, that means learning how to wash without causing it) is so critically important. IMO if you need to polish once a year (even after daily winter use in awful conditons), then something is wrong.



And it's not just a matter of taking off all the clear; remove too much (opinions vary, but you can't take off a lot) and you'll precipitate clearcoat failure when it's exposed to sunlight.



Reclearing is problematic, and generally the solution is to get a full repaint (primer,color coat, clear coat). Finding a shop that goes acceptable work is tricky, and generally all repaints have some deficencies compared with the factory paintjob (if only durability).



So it really all gets down to not marring the paint. Not when you wash, not during regular use (opening/closing doors/trunk/etc.). Admittedly, it's very challenging, but it can be done...at least to the point of "good enough for real life". Gotta remember that "life is not a car show" ;)
 
Accumulator said:
That concern is why you can't/shouldn't polish very often, and thus why minimizing the marring in the first place (generally, that means learning how to wash without causing it) is so critically important. IMO if you need to polish once a year (even after daily winter use in awful conditons), then something is wrong.
Click to expand...



Is it reasonable and safe to use an AIO like ZAIO or DG501 with cleaners and mild abrasives annually on a daily driver after it has undergone a full polishing to get it into shape?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top