ETG Testing Results of Compounding

[RAG]

I wanted to share my test results with others on this board, and because it takes so long to conduct the tests, I was also hoping that other Autopians with an ETG would peform their own similar tests.



THE TEST: Measure how much clear is removed using various compounds, polishes, and pads with the rotary. With each compound and pad combination I polished a 2' x 2' area 5 times (each time I used 4 pasess and each pass overlapped the previous by 50%); the rotary was set at 1500 rpms and I applied medium pressure (about 5-7 lbs ) to the rotary (since I only polished horizontal surfaces like the hood, the weight of the buffer also added pressure). I made sure to let the paint cool in between each polishing.



Because total film build on most vehicles varies significantly throughout each panel, I made sure to consistenly measure on the exact same point (usually using a small rock chip for reference).



All measurements are in Microns...typical factory clear is approximately 40 microns thick.



Because the amount of paint removed for many of the combinations was so small, I think the test would prove much more accurate if I were to polish 10 times.



RESULTS:

1) Green P2 with SSR 3 removed approximately 2 microns

2) Green P2 with new (blue) OHC removed approximately 1.5 microns

3) Green P2 with HTEC+OC (50/50) removed approximately 2 microns



(tests 1-3 were conducted on my landcruiser whereas the remaining tests were perfomred on the hood of a black Jetta).



4) Yellow P2 pad with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1 microns (but I had a difficult time taking a consistent measurement in this spot for some reason...so I'd like to redo this test)...though as is, this tells me cutting pad without compound does not remove much clear.

5) Yellow twisted wool pad from CMA with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1 microns (I wash shocked so little clear came off)

6) Black Edge twisted two (two-sided) with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1.5 microns(again, shocked).

Black Edge wool with OP removed approximately 2.5 microns



7) Black Edge wool with HTEC/OC removed 7 microns of paint (combination of wool and compound seemed to triple the aggressivemeness).



8) Orange CCS with HTEC/OC removed approximately 2 microns of paint

9) Orange CCS with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1 microns





Also, as a little side experiment, I took some 2000 unigrit paper and sanded an area and compounded with the test #7 compo (edge wool plus HTEC/oc)...I had to polish twice (8 total passes) to completely remove the sanding rows/scratches).





For those that don't have an ETG but would like to test the strength of their favorite combinations, one could sand with 2000 or 2500 and see how much polishing is required to completely remove the grooves.



Questions or comments welcome.



RAG (Ryan Anthony Gelardi)

 

[imported_paradigm]

7) Black Edge wool with HTEC/OC removed 7 mils of paint (combination of wool and compound seemed to triple the aggressivemeness).

:shocked



wow...that is a pretty powerful combo!



interesting test...thanks for taking the time and sharing!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

...typical factory clear is approximately 40 mils thick.

I wish!! You mean 4 mils. You've got your decimal point in the wrong place with the total and how much you removed...1 mil = .001", so your black wool with OC took off .7 mils. Great test results though, thanks for doing them.



Definition of mil - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

 

[qadsan]

Ryan, are you sure you aren't measuring microns or? If you're removing 2 mills, then you may be removing close to half your surface coating if you're working on a newer vehicle. Today's base coat / clear coat paint jobs typically don't exceed 5 mills in total thickness. The paint jobs I shoot have a typical thickness less than 4 mills, including primer + paint + clear. It's not uncommon to see thicker paint (8+ mills) on older vehicles that have been repainted several times, but not on newer vehicles.



Also, the last 1/3 of a mill is where much of the UV protection is, so if you're removing more than 1/3 of a mill from the clear, then your UV protection may be compromised.



1 mill is equal to 0.001 or 1/1000 of an inch or 0.0254mm.



1 micron is equal to 1/1,000 of a mm or 1/25,000 inch or 0.00004 inches.



There are about 25 microns to one mill (0.001 inch).

 

[RAG]

I wish!! You mean 4 mils. You've got your decimal point in the wrong place with the total and how much you removed...1 mil = .001", so your black wool with OC took off .7 mils. Great test results though, thanks for doing them.



Definition of mil - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Ooops! I can't believe I wrote "Mils" when I meant Microns...thanks for catching this. I'm going to go edit the post now to make it Microns. I don't know how I messed that one up, as I never measure in mils...just isn't a small enough unit of measurement to detect change.

 

[RAG]

Ryan, are you sure you aren't measuring microns or? If you're removing 2 mills, then you may be removing close to half your surface coating if you're working on a newer vehicle. Today's base coat / clear coat paint jobs typically don't exceed 5 mills in total thickness. The paint jobs I shoot have a typical thickness less than 4 mills, including primer + paint + clear. It's not uncommon to see thicker paint (8+ mills) on older vehicles that have been repainted several times, but not on newer vehicles.



Also, the last 1/3 of a mill is where much of the UV protection is, so if you're removing more than 1/3 of a mill from the clear, then your UV protection may be compromised.



1 mill is equal to 0.001 or 1/1000 of an inch or 0.0254mm.



1 micron is equal to 1/1,000 of a mm or 1/25,000 inch or 0.00004 inches.



There are about 25 microns to one mill (0.001 inch).

Yup...you got it.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Oh, my mistake...it just looked like a decimal point rather than an inch/metric...now I gotta convert to inches so I can understand ur numbers

 

[RAG]

Anyone else got an ETG that's willing to test some compounds? It sure would be nice to be able to put some figures to more compounds and polishes so we can say difinitively how much cut each has.

 

[SpoiledMan]

Of course the amount of paint removed will also vary according to pressure used and paint hardness.

 

[Grimm]

Thanks for sharing this! Makes me much more comfortable about doing a yearly polishing with a PC.

 

[Eliot Ness]

Anyone else got an ETG that's willing to test some compounds? It sure would be nice to be able to put some figures to more compounds and polishes so we can say definitively how much cut each has.

Here is a thread from the MOL site that you might find interesting:



How much paint are you removing. - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

 

[Changeling]

This is of great interest to me. What kind of instrument are you using that can measure down to a "Micron" or less? Are you talking microns or thousands?

I would really appreciate information regarding your procedure and equipment to measure at those levels.

Changeling

I wanted to share my test results with others on this board, and because it takes so long to conduct the tests, I was also hoping that other Autopians with an ETG would peform their own similar tests.



THE TEST: Measure how much clear is removed using various compounds, polishes, and pads with the rotary. With each compound and pad combination I polished a 2' x 2' area 5 times (each time I used 4 pasess and each pass overlapped the previous by 50%); the rotary was set at 1500 rpms and I applied medium pressure (about 5-7 lbs ) to the rotary (since I only polished horizontal surfaces like the hood, the weight of the buffer also added pressure). I made sure to let the paint cool in between each polishing.



Because total film build on most vehicles varies significantly throughout each panel, I made sure to consistenly measure on the exact same point (usually using a small rock chip for reference).



All measurements are in Microns...typical factory clear is approximately 40 microns thick.



Because the amount of paint removed for many of the combinations was so small, I think the test would prove much more accurate if I were to polish 10 times.



RESULTS:

1) Green P2 with SSR 3 removed approximately 2 microns

2) Green P2 with new (blue) OHC removed approximately 1.5 microns

3) Green P2 with HTEC+OC (50/50) removed approximately 2 microns



(tests 1-3 were conducted on my landcruiser whereas the remaining tests were perfomred on the hood of a black Jetta).



4) Yellow P2 pad with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1 microns (but I had a difficult time taking a consistent measurement in this spot for some reason...so I'd like to redo this test)...though as is, this tells me cutting pad without compound does not remove much clear.

5) Yellow twisted wool pad from CMA with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1 microns (I wash shocked so little clear came off)

6) Black Edge twisted two (two-sided) with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1.5 microns(again, shocked).

Black Edge wool with OP removed approximately 2.5 microns



7) Black Edge wool with HTEC/OC removed 7 microns of paint (combination of wool and compound seemed to triple the aggressivemeness).



8) Orange CCS with HTEC/OC removed approximately 2 mils of paint

9) Orange CCS with PO85RE5 removed approximately 1 mil





Also, as a little side experiment, I took some 2000 unigrit paper and sanded an area and compounded with the test #7 compo (edge wool plus HTEC/oc)...I had to polish twice (8 total passes) to completely remove the sanding rows/scratches).





For those that don't have an ETG but would like to test the strength of their favorite combinations, one could sand with 2000 or 2500 and see how much polishing is required to completely remove the grooves.



Questions or comments welcome.



RAG (Ryan Anthony Gelardi)

 

[imported_iceberg]

Great stuff! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Bigpoppa3346]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to put this information together. I am sure many detailers on this site greatly appreciate the info (I know I do).

 

[RAG]

Of course the amount of paint removed will also vary according to pressure used and paint hardness.

Undoubtably. This is why I think it's important to compare various pads/compounds on the same panel.

 

[RAG]

Thanks for sharing this! Makes me much more comfortable about doing a yearly polishing with a PC.

As long as you are careful on the corners, you could perform a light "polish" with a PC 5 times a year for 10 years and never go through more than 1/4 of the clear in my estimation.

 

[RAG]

Thank you for taking the time and effort to put this information together. I am sure many detailers on this site greatly appreciate the info (I know I do).

Thanks. And you're welcome. I'll do more tests as soon as I have some play time...but extra time is limited as I'm doing some construction on an old beach home I just bought.

 

[wannafbody]

great info-thanks

 

[DSVWGLI]

Also, as a little side experiment, I took some 2000 unigrit paper and sanded an area and compounded with the test #7 compo (edge wool plus HTEC/oc)...I had to polish twice (8 total passes) to completely remove the sanding rows/scratches).

What did this reveal in microns removed? How much was removed with sanding alone, and how much all together?

 

[Scottwax]

test! Thanks for taking the time to put it together.