Do Glazes Have Abrasives?

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I was looking for review of 3M IHG and I came across this quote below. Is this true?



http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19486&highlight=Imperial+Hand+Glaze



DETAILKING said:
#26 and #7 both can contain up to 5-10% abrasives. The big unknown and important information we are missing is the size and shape of these abrasives.



Glazes and waxes use MILD abrasives to slightly mar the surface to increase durability. It gives the product more of a BITE on an other wise smooth surface.



In my opinion, I would not use these products over KLASSE, as the abrasives and solvents in them, will definately weaken the base sealant layers. For minor swirls, multiple coats of KLASSE might fill them to a degree. For major swirls, just use some 3M swirl removing products on the effected panel, and then reapply wax or sealant......
Click to expand...



[edit: updated link]
 
I used #7 on black and red single stage for years, and never found it to be abrasive. In 2003 I had occasion to use it again, and I spoke with Mike Phillips about it. Don't mean to :argue with DetailKing, but Mike Phillips said (both on the boards and in conversation) that Meg's "pure polishes", i.e, #3/#5/#7/#81 are non-abrasive. When we spoke on the phone in '03 about an older Jag I was doing, Mike said that any "cut" from #7 would be a result of the application media (e.g., a cotton applicator), and we were talking about dark, old-school lacquer where any abrasion would be quite apparent. Having then used #7 on said lacquer, I found no indication that it was abrasive.



If it *does* contain a certain percentage of abrasive ingredients, they must be so fine as to not do any *effective*/practical abrasion to automotive paint.



3M IHG does not contain abrasives. The ingredients are oils and solvents.
 
Reading through DETAILKING's post again, I found that he got the info from the MSDS.



Others have found aluminum silicate in the MSDS of IHG too. http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42936&highlight=glaze+silicate



Everyone else's post regarding IHG, #3, #5, #7, and #81 describes them as fillers / car makeup so I guess whatever abrasiveness there is is too minute to detect.



If there is any cut, I'd tend to agree with Accumulator et. al. that it probably came from the applicator and the application method.



[edit: updated link]
 
merci- Good spotting on that link to the new IHG ingredients :xyxthumbs My bottle was older and I was unaware of the change.



Manufacturer's reps have mentioned the "practical abrasiveness" a few times. IIRC, a little "abrasive" helps make a product easier to use, but yeah, a certain level of aggressiveness is required to "cut" automotive paint.



The #7 I'm certain about, unless it's changed recently. The Jag I was working on was ss BRG and there was no color transfer to the applicator or the buffing towels.
 
Merci- As an industry car care product manufacturers have never, for whatever reason standardized their product descriptions. For instance-a polish is by convention something that contains an abrasive (depending upon abrasive size/material) to either abrade surface scratches or burnish the surface.



There are lots of instances were a product description/name says one thing and yet it actually does something completely different (i.e. Zaino Z5 polish) which despite claims that it eliminates scratches contains no abrasive.



An old-school product like 3M Imperial Hand Glaze contains no abrasives but does contain oils and fillers.

I use the description old-school because back then you could tell what a car care product did by its description, not what a marketing person wants to call it purely for the sake of â€Ëœimageâ€â„¢ to help hype sales

JonM
 
TOGWT- Heh heh, we dinosaurs have to hustle to keep current huh? So now IHG has some abrasives in it, who woulda thunk it? It certainly is frustrating that product names are all over the map with regard to what they're describing.



Again folks, we need to take the practical aspects of this stuff into account. In the linked exchange with reps from Mother's, Forrest says that the abrasives in the Sealant & Glaze won't wear down paint "in your lifetime" and also posts "...the "mechanical abrasive" in Sealer and glaze is a microabrasive - it's much, much finer than those in Pre-Wax Cleaner. It's there to promote product adhesion, not to cut the way a more aggressive abrasive would." Just because something contains "abrasives" that doesn't mean that it will necessarilly *effect abrasion* on automotive paint.



Some of our cars were in our family for a *long* time, over twenty years in a few cases. The regular use of sensible abrasives *never* caused any problems.
 
I needed to know if the microabrasives in a glaze were enough to remove a coat of wax which would effectively ruin my plan below:



glaze

wax

(wait 24 hours)

glaze

wax

(wait 24 hours)

glaze

wax

(wait 24 hours)

glaze

wax

(wait 24 hours)



:D
 
If a Glaze or any other product contains abrasives and is applied over any another product it may remove it, dependant upon how agressive the abrasive is.



You may want to ask the mfg of the specific Glaze your planning to use (they have made something that should be so simple complicated, WHY?)



Perhaps we need to add Glazes to the Autopia comparative abrasion scale (something I'd have laughed at prior to this thread)

JonM
 
merci- Heh heh, I have absolutely *no* idea if that plan of yours will work out! If you give it a try, let us know how it turns out.
 
A lot depends on the 'glaze' too. #80 Speed Glaze is more aggressive than #82 Swirl Free Polish and Wax Shop's Super Glaze has no discernable abrasives and it is in fact, their wax.
 
Originally posted by DETAILKING

#26 and #7 both can contain up to 5-10% abrasives.



Is this true about #26 ? Also, are there any glazes which are chemical and not mechanically abrasive our there ?
 
mochamanz said:
Originally posted by DETAILKING

#26 and #7 both can contain up to 5-10% abrasives.



Is this true about #26 ? Also, are there any glazes which are chemical and not mechanically abrasive our there ?
Click to expand...



According to Clearkote, Red Machine Glaze and Yellow Creme Wax (which is meant to be used as a glaze) are referred to as 'non-abrasive'.
 
I dont know about the others, but with the Meguiars products the key term to look for is "pure polish." I know when Mike P uses that term to desrcibe a product, that means it's non-abrasive.
 
Here's my two cents in the matter. If you register at the Meguiar's website, you can look access their MSDS's online. Not that this is some secret or eartshattering info, but it does provide some interesting data, and I thank one of the Brads (B. or E.) for first bringing up the "active ingredients" in some polishes/glazes (Autopia chat last year). BTW, the MSDS doesn't necessarily show ALL the ingredients of a product, only the ones that are regulated as hazardous, and manufacturers don't have to reveal "trade secret" ingredients (and doesn't require the exact amount, only a range), so it isn't the be-all/end-all of info.



I have looked this up before and noted that NXT liquid contains 5-15% Calcined Kaolin Clay (this is also known as China Clay and is used industrially as a filler and extender in paints and caulks--you too can find this out with Google!). I'm not sure if this is the "specialized cleaner" or if it is responsible for the filling action of NXT, or both. When this thread started, I was surprised to find that #26 liquid also contains 1-5% of the Calcined Kaolin Clay (however, the paste does not, which I find fascinating since Meg's says that there is no difference in products/results between these two and it's purely user preference in choosing liquid or paste).



Now, somewhere I have some 20-year old Meg's literature (someday I will find it), but I recall them indicating that the glazes/pure polishes had some very fine abrasives, akin to jeweler's rouge (my words, not theirs). Because of all the products mentioned in this thread, I have looked up a bunch that I hadn't before, again, with interesting results.



#3 Machine Glaze has 5-15% Natural Diatomaceous Earth, and 5-15% Trade Secret "polish", #5 New Car Glaze and #7 Show Car Glaze only the 5-15 NDE, and the #81 Hand Polish has 1-5% NDE, 1-5% Bentonite Clay, and 3-5% Trade Secret "conditioners". Interestingly, they all contain 1-5% glycerine (#5 only 1-3%)...which may be the short-acting ingredient responsible for the wet-look and minor protection.



Regarding abrasives, I would have to consider clay ("Kaolin clay is one of the most abundant minerals and common constituents of the earth's crust. Clay occurs in many different forms, but kaolin - or china clay - is the purest and most versatile.") and diatomaceous earth to be "abrasives" but not "abrasive", if you know what I mean--they are...um...polishes, I guess (after all, 2000 grit paper is still sandpaper). They may also provide some/all of the filling effect of these products.



If anyone wants to look at the Meg's MSDS's they are here. Kudos to Meguiar's for the easy access.
 
Excellent post, Mike! Very interesting information.



My opinion, based on years using #81 is that other than the polishing medium it has no discernable abrasive properties in actual use. That doesn't mean it doesn't have any though!
 
Setec Astronomy thanks for the information and the time spent researching it.



Quote: Regarding abrasives, I would have to consider clay (âہ“Kaolin clay is one of the most abundant minerals and common constituents of the earth's crust. Clay occurs in many different forms, but kaolin - or china clay - is the purest and most versatile.â€Â�) and diatomaceous earth to be âہ“abrasivesâ€Â� but not âہ“abrasiveâ€Â�, if you know what I meanâ€â€�they areâ€Â¦umâ€Â¦polishes, I guess (after all, 2000 grit paper is still sandpaper). They may also provide some/all of the filling effect of these products



As they say in the US the cliff notes version, thanks again
 
Trying to understand chemical ingredients in detailing products is definitely going the "Autopian next mile" :D





here are some chemical books Ketch once mentioned to me. I hope to track them down some time. Any chemists out there might be familar with them or have ready access to them:





Hawley's Chemical Dictionary



Rapid Guide to Hazardous Chemicals in the Work Place





both by Richard Lewis





View some great info on the first here
 
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