Diminishing abrasives, how to tell when they are broken down?
- Thread starter iforcev8
- Start date
imported_doug
New member
You didn't rub long enough. Go back and read the posts on how this stuff works, and why you should really use an orbital, and why if you don't you better be rubbing like hell for a long, long time.
BTW, if you can't afford an orbital, trust me - go out and get some meguiar's scratch-x. It is made specifically for use by hand. It will polish out that haze with MUCH less work than it will take to properly use either FI-II or SMR.
BTW, if you can't afford an orbital, trust me - go out and get some meguiar's scratch-x. It is made specifically for use by hand. It will polish out that haze with MUCH less work than it will take to properly use either FI-II or SMR.
I have been thinking about getting an PC, with the CMA kit, as it would be a great xmas gift for myself, I wondered if I really needed it because from reading other threads, some members have had good luck using Fi-2 by hand, so I thought why not give it a try.
So I have a problem now, sell the Laker tickets ( vs 76ers) and get a PC with CMA? or just go to the game.....
So I have a problem now, sell the Laker tickets ( vs 76ers) and get a PC with CMA? or just go to the game.....
imported_doug
New member
YoSteve -
I have used the old and new Meguiar's SMR as well as the 3M. The old Meguiar;s was the hardest to use. The 3M stuff will cause hazing too if you don't work it a lot. The new meguiar's swirl remover (2.0) has enough fillers and polishes to look good with even hand application, but you can still work it harder to truly remove swirls/haze. It is (for me, on my car) absolutely, hands down, without a doubt, both eaier to use and more effective than 3M SMR. Have you tried it personally? I think it is pretty good stuff.
I have used the old and new Meguiar's SMR as well as the 3M. The old Meguiar;s was the hardest to use. The 3M stuff will cause hazing too if you don't work it a lot. The new meguiar's swirl remover (2.0) has enough fillers and polishes to look good with even hand application, but you can still work it harder to truly remove swirls/haze. It is (for me, on my car) absolutely, hands down, without a doubt, both eaier to use and more effective than 3M SMR. Have you tried it personally? I think it is pretty good stuff.
imported_Intermezzo
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by carguy [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>YoSteve -
I have used the old and new Meguiar's SMR as well as the 3M. The old Meguiar;s was the hardest to use. The 3M stuff will cause hazing too if you don't work it a lot. The new meguiar's swirl remover (2.0) has enough fillers and polishes to look good with even hand application, but you can still work it harder to truly remove swirls/haze. It is (for me, on my car) absolutely, hands down, without a doubt, both eaier to use and more effective than 3M SMR. Have you tried it personally? I think it is pretty good stuff. [/b]</blockquote>
Yeah, you but also think Meguiar's Gold Class is preferable to Zaino. Haha, just kidding. Sorry Carguy, just had to blurt that out. I haven't tried any of Meguiar's Mirror-Glaze line, but most people that have tried it do seem to have nothing but good things to say about it. And I've tried 3M's SMR (quite a while ago) and I didn't like it at all.
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by carguy [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>YoSteve -
I have used the old and new Meguiar's SMR as well as the 3M. The old Meguiar;s was the hardest to use. The 3M stuff will cause hazing too if you don't work it a lot. The new meguiar's swirl remover (2.0) has enough fillers and polishes to look good with even hand application, but you can still work it harder to truly remove swirls/haze. It is (for me, on my car) absolutely, hands down, without a doubt, both eaier to use and more effective than 3M SMR. Have you tried it personally? I think it is pretty good stuff. [/b]</blockquote>
Yeah, you but also think Meguiar's Gold Class is preferable to Zaino. Haha, just kidding. Sorry Carguy, just had to blurt that out. I haven't tried any of Meguiar's Mirror-Glaze line, but most people that have tried it do seem to have nothing but good things to say about it. And I've tried 3M's SMR (quite a while ago) and I didn't like it at all.
After polishing my car for the last two days with a PC, I can't even imagine using those products without it! Unless you have a brand new car that requires NO polishing other than maybe AIO or PPCL, then you need a PC! I would put it at or near the top of the list in anyones arsenal of detailing tools...
H
H
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
A common question on this forum, and others is: How can I tell if I have worked my polish long enough?
Often the best way to tell if a traditional abrasive polishes has been worked long enough is to visually inspect the product as you work it on the paint. When the polish is first applied it will have cloudy appearance and it may be difficult to see the reflections clearly in the paint.
The friction of the polish moving over the surface will cause the abrasive particles to break apart and become finer. This is important with diminishing abrasives, as they start out more abrasive to remove defects, then breakdown to polish out the marks they leave behind. The polish film on the paint will begin to clear up, and the reflections will become visible through the film.
Continue to work the polish until it is nearly clear, then make an additional few passes on the paint's surface to refine the finish. At this point remove the residue using a soft, marring free microfiber cloth.
The resulting finish in direct sunlight.
Common questions, answers, and solutions.
What will happen if I remove the residue before it has fully broken down?
If the polish is removed while the abrasives are not broken down, the polish will not have had enough time to refine the surface, so swirl marks may be visible. It is important, particularly in the final polishing step, to break down the polish completely.
I have polished an area for several minutes, but it is hard to detect a change in the transparency of the polish film? Is my polish not breaking down?
With some polishes it is more difficult to tell when the abrasives are broken down, the change can be quite subtle. However using a polishing pad that has become too saturated with product or applying too much fresh polish for a section can greatly increase the time it takes to break the polish down. If the polishing pad is extremely saturated it can be impossible to tell when the polish has been exhausted.
Cleaning your polishing pad often, and switching to a fresh pad when the current one becomes saturated will make it much easier to determine when the polish has been worked completely.
How do I know if I have a traditional abrasive polish or a non-diminishing abrasive polish?
The best bet is check the manufacturers recommendations on working the product. If they suggest working the polish until it becomes clear, then this article is a good reference on what that will look like visually. We recommend always following the manufacturers recommendations at first, until you have enough comfort level to begin tweaking the process to your needs.
If you have any questions about polishes that we sell or manufacture feel free to give us a call at 1 (800) 628-7596, and we would be glad to answer them.
Often the best way to tell if a traditional abrasive polishes has been worked long enough is to visually inspect the product as you work it on the paint. When the polish is first applied it will have cloudy appearance and it may be difficult to see the reflections clearly in the paint.
The friction of the polish moving over the surface will cause the abrasive particles to break apart and become finer. This is important with diminishing abrasives, as they start out more abrasive to remove defects, then breakdown to polish out the marks they leave behind. The polish film on the paint will begin to clear up, and the reflections will become visible through the film.
Continue to work the polish until it is nearly clear, then make an additional few passes on the paint's surface to refine the finish. At this point remove the residue using a soft, marring free microfiber cloth.
The resulting finish in direct sunlight.
Common questions, answers, and solutions.
What will happen if I remove the residue before it has fully broken down?
If the polish is removed while the abrasives are not broken down, the polish will not have had enough time to refine the surface, so swirl marks may be visible. It is important, particularly in the final polishing step, to break down the polish completely.
I have polished an area for several minutes, but it is hard to detect a change in the transparency of the polish film? Is my polish not breaking down?
With some polishes it is more difficult to tell when the abrasives are broken down, the change can be quite subtle. However using a polishing pad that has become too saturated with product or applying too much fresh polish for a section can greatly increase the time it takes to break the polish down. If the polishing pad is extremely saturated it can be impossible to tell when the polish has been exhausted.
Cleaning your polishing pad often, and switching to a fresh pad when the current one becomes saturated will make it much easier to determine when the polish has been worked completely.
How do I know if I have a traditional abrasive polish or a non-diminishing abrasive polish?
The best bet is check the manufacturers recommendations on working the product. If they suggest working the polish until it becomes clear, then this article is a good reference on what that will look like visually. We recommend always following the manufacturers recommendations at first, until you have enough comfort level to begin tweaking the process to your needs.
If you have any questions about polishes that we sell or manufacture feel free to give us a call at 1 (800) 628-7596, and we would be glad to answer them.
imported_Flash Gordon
New member
Very informative article :-B
Thanks for taking the time to do this Todd <
Thanks for taking the time to do this Todd <
Another quality writeup, Todd! The photos clearly demonstrate what your are saying.
By the way, I think you mean 'opaque' in the Stage 1 writeup? Okapi are a animal from Africa that resemble a cross between a Zebra and a horse.Theyve been a favorite exotic animal of mine since I was a kid.
By the way, I think you mean 'opaque' in the Stage 1 writeup? Okapi are a animal from Africa that resemble a cross between a Zebra and a horse.Theyve been a favorite exotic animal of mine since I was a kid.
imported_Pats300zx
New member
Awesome article Todd. Thanks for putting that together. :clap:
No, I think he means when the polish resembles an exotic African animal it has not broken down fully. (just kidding!)
Another stellar explanation from the Man! Thanks for putting this info up Todd.
imported_Bunky
New member
For polishes like Menzerna PO85RD, it seems like you can polish well after it goes clear without much ill effect.
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Great write-up Todd, this will help out many folks out there.:wizard:
imported_juliom2
New member
Maestro Todd thanks for the lesson!!! One thing to pay attention is what you mention in step 3-4 " At this point surface as refined as it can be " A big part of the end result is the quality of clear coat itself. Sometimes we go over and over a surface with certain spectation of how crystal clear or what grade of shine will polishing bring to the surface and at the end; we are limited to what clear coat we polish on.
:spy: ~X(
:spy: ~X(
imported_superchargedg
New member
Great write up!
ZL1Mark
Allergic to One Product
Todd,
Are you saying the *original* swirl marks may still be there because the polish didn't have enough time to remove them? Or, is it because you didn't break down the abrasives long enough, therefore, the abrasives will leave swirl marks/hazing behind?
Not sure if you understand what I'm saying...