Detailing products and process help

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dank311

New member
Hey all, this is my first time posting, but I have read over this forums for the past few months, reading about different products and tips on detailing.

Anyways, I have a 2005 black 350Z. My detailing process is only wash, clay, then wax. I am currently using Meguiars NXT line....which probably isnt the best product to be using.

Anyways, first, I want to make sure I am understanding the process that I need to do.

Let me know if I understand this correctly.



1) Wash

2) Clay bar

3) Wash again(optional)?

4) Pre wax Cleaner (also called Paint cleaners, polish, etc)?

5) Polish

6) Glaze (not sure if its worth it, or totally needed)

7) Wax, or sealant



I have read that I will need a PC to remove most of the swirls, but I dont have one, but I plan on getting one down the road. But for now, I will be appling and removing everything by hand.

Now, I understand pretty much everything but 4 and 5. It seems manufacturers like to call their products different names and leading me into much confusion on what product does what. What does the pre cleaners and polishes do? And how do they differ? My car doesn't have many major defects. Mostly swirls, minor water spots, scratches, etc.. I mean its only a year old.

I want to make sure I am going to be getting quality products. From the research I have done, here is what I am looking into.



1) Use Sheepskin wash mitt, clean with WW MF like (Big Blue) or Meguiars Water Magnet. For Application, I will use Foam applicators, and use a MF towel to remove(Pakshak MF towels, or something like Meguiars Ultimate wipe)

2) Car Wash (I am currently using NXT, but heard there are tons of soaps that are better) - maybe TOL bubble bath?

3) Clay bar - (Mothers, or Clay magic)

4) Pre cleaner (Menzerna Intense polish)

5) Polish (Menzerna Final Polish II)

6) Glaze (not sure if needed)???

7) Wax (I was planning to try what most of yall do..try a polymer wax, and then a caranuma wax on top)



I'm still researching best brands and products to use, as this seems the most comlicated parts when it comes to picking 3-6, b/c some manufacturers like to label their products differently. But without much experience, Im not exactly how abrasive some of these products are, or any results of them at all. I am hoping someone can maybe give me a top 3 list of each category, and I can go from there. I just need some kind of base list to go from. Also, I have been thinking about piecing together products like above, but have also heard great things about using a whole system like Zaino. I have a few friends that have used it for a while, but say it can be a rather confusing system to use as well as time consuming. I personally dont mind working on it if the results are gonig to be worth it. But I also am looking for something affordable, best bang for the buck products that won't be too harsh, and can be somewhat easy to apply and remove.

I appreciate all your help. I am new to some of this, so please to flame me too hard. hehe.

Happy Holidays,

Jon
 
Instead of washing, drying, and then claying, you can save time by washing, thoroughly rinsing and then claying the car while still wet using the water and soap solution from your bucket for lube. After you clay you can just rinse the panel and dry it off. Saves you the hassle of drying twice.



You can get good quality sheepskin mitts from walmart (especially this time of year) under the Eurow brand name. You can't really have enough. It's nice to have alot because if you ever feel your mitt is getting overly dirty or you can't get all the grit and dirt out of it in the rinse bucket, you can just switch to a new mitt.



Switch your steps 4 + 5. A polish will clean the paint (mind you abrasively vs the chemical cleaning of a paint cleaner type product) so using the pre wax cleaner before polishing is a waste. Use the cleaner product after the polish to remove leftover polishing oils that could interfere with LSP bonding.



I like using glazes on darker colors (On my own car for instance, I use two difference glazes). I feel that I get alot deeper and wetter look out of my combo's when utilizing a glaze. Glazes will also help hide some defects in the paint. You said your not going to be getting a PC for a while so this might be beneficial to you. You can glaze the crap out of the car and have the car seem as if it has significantly less swirls/scratches/etc. Some people skip this step but IMO the advantages outweigh not using them.



I would just stick to a carnauba on dark colors. You can add a sealant type product if you want better durability/protection, but it really isnt needed. A glaze topped with a quality carnauba will be really wet and deep.



I like the Poorboy's Soap (called super slick and suds). It provides great lubricity and isn't overly harsh on the LSP's. The most widely used pre cleaner is would be klasse All-In-One. Great cleaning ability combined with a light acrylic protection left behind equates to an awesome product. Polishes are a dime a dozen. Poorboy's, optimum, menzerna, meguiar's, etc etc all make different polishes. Run a few searches and see what would work for you. Glazes.... I'm addicted to the clearkote glazes atm. Vanilla moose is a glaze that has a nice light polishing ability. Red moose machine glaze is the same thing, a glaze but with less polishing ability than VM. For a wax, you really can't go wrong with natty's blue by poorboy's on a black car.



mkay, i'm done. If you wanna know anything else, shoot.
 
Thanks for the help man. The tip about the clay bar sounds like a great idea. Definately a time saver! Thanks.



As for polishing and pre wax cleaners...I am still getting confused here. Correct me if Im wrong. Pre wax cleaners are cleaners that will clean the surface of marring, swirls, light scratches, oxidation, acid rain, water spots, etc...based on the abrasive ("cutting") strength, or chemicals used in that particular pre wax cleaner.

And Regular polishes, or "pure" polishes are used to buff the surface to add depth and shine..correct?

The reason I ask this again, is b/c I have actually gotten different answers from some detail shops. Plus, reading through product reviews, also gets me confused on what I should be using.



Could someone give me a few examples of the following

1.) polish

2.) Pre wax cleaner

3.) glaze

4.) wax

5.) sealant
 
I would switch steps 4 and 5 on that list.



When I detailed my car I did



Wash

Clay

Polish

AIO (cleaner)

UPP (sealant)

P21s (wax)
 
A lot of this depends on the problems you have with the paint. An aggressive polish should eliminate the need for the pre wax cleaner.

You listed two Menzerna polishes, the difference being aggressiveness. Think of them like grits of sandpaper, if the finer less aggressive grit will do the job, then save the step of using the really aggressive stuff first. Always start light, then if it's not working go more agressive.



You rad about a lot of peoples processes on this site, and they are all a little different. Different degrees of paint problems call for different processes. You can beat yourself up pretty good trying to hit it on the head trying to draw up a process, only to have to adjust midstream to the paints reaction to the process. The best bet is to just be prepared for the problem, but be able to adjust to the results. savy?



The other thing that I'd be concerned about is all that polishing by hand on a black car. You should just pop for the PC now and save yourself the hassle. With the PC you can save yourself the headache of trying to polish out the problems evenly by hand. That Menzerna stuff isn't the most fun to use by hand. It can be done, but you might end up looking like Popeye by the time you're done.



1.) polish (might take a couple times around to get it all finished)

2.) glaze

3.) Seal (optional)

4.) wax (couple coats of nattys or s100) that should make that black paint drip. :D
 
I'm with chpsk8 on this one. Menzerna IP & FPII are both polishes. IP is just a more aggressive/abrasive polish. A pre-wax/paint cleaner should is non-abrasive (at least according to my personal definition) and cleans the paint chemically. Klasse AIO is a combination paint cleaner and sealant. Also, Poorboy's Pro Polish is a paint cleaner. Ironically, they label it a "polish," but I think most would agree that it's a paint cleaner as it's non-abrasive.
 
Thanks everyone. This is really helping me out understand what I need. I really appreciate everyones help. The polish thing is starting to get a little clearer to me now. It seems that each polish will have its own abbrasive characteristics, or is a non-abbrasive...which cleans by chemicals(such as Klasse AIO). I read some of the Poor Boys products. Would you suggest SSR 2 for swirls and light water spots, etc? Here are some pics to better show my paint condition...Maybe this will help :)



digipicsS1087.jpg




digipicsS1084.jpg




S1004.jpg




Havent washed in about 3-4 days, and she is garaged.



How aggressive should I go on the polish/pre-wax cleaner? Also, is Klasse AIO just a pre-wax cleaner, or is it a polish and wax together? Should I use something more aggressive. Im not sure about the glazes though...are they very effective? If I used a PC would I need to only use a polish, or would I still benefit from a glaze as well?

If I were to get a PC now, what models would be most cost effecient?

Are sealants liquid wax like polymer wax...and Wax is meaning caranuba wax?

Sorry to ask soo many questions, but I want to make sure I get the right products and not end up getting 2 of the same thing and end up wasting product and money.

Thanks again everone!
 
Once you decide which products you want to purchse it will be easier for the forum members to help you decide which product to use.



No matter what product that you use, the Autopian way is to use the least aggressive polish first to get the job done. Once you get the pc and the appropriate pads you can start with a polish and do a section of a panel. Make a decision as to wether or not you are happy then go on. You can always go more aggressive. After you have become more accomplished with the PC, you will be able to make judgements on your paint condition to finally decide what your process will ultimately be.



also, you have a terrifically good lookin car to take care of :up
 
Thanks! I cant believe she is almost a year old.

But it seems that these will be the following things I need

1) PC buffer (not sure what is most cost effecient model)

2) Sheepskin mitt, and MF towels - Eurow and Pakshak

3) Car wash - ?

4) Clay Bar Kit - Mother or Clay Magic?

5) Polish - Menzerna ?

6) Cleaner - Klasse AIO

7) Glaze - ?

8) Wax (probably use both..a combo of Polymer and Caranuba) - Souveran or Natty Blue

9) Speed detailer to use between wax intervals -

10) Tire Shine - ?



I think thats pretty much all I need right.
 
I will tell you that i use Excel to buy a lot of my products. Patrick listens to my obcessiveness(means a lot to me) so i am a little biased. It looks to me that you can get all that you need for your detail thru him. Poorboy's is a little easier to learn on with the PC. do not get me wrong I have Menzerna too.



The wash mitts, MF towels, backing plate and pads. plus a full line of the SSR line will take care of all your needs in a one stop shop. go down and purchase a 7336 or 7424 to get ready for the detail.



I get the menzerna line(IP, FPll,FMJ, and HGAS) from CMA. they carry the lake country pads in a kit. You can also buy the PC kit to get it all in one place. Jsut more money.



what ever you chose I wish that you lived close because I would like to be in on that detail.
 
Since you're new to machine buffing to remove swirls like that you may need two polishes one more agressive and one less agressive like the Menzerna IP & FPII that you mentioned before. When you're doing paint correction the more agressive polish will level the paint. Basically leveling is grinding off the paint until the paint is level with the lowest point of the defect which essentially makes the surface of the paint flat. Unfortunately, when you're done with this step the paint is not always super glossy especially with dark colored cars like yours. Next you would use the milder polish to restore the shine.



Once you've polished the paint going forward you can use a non-abrasive pre-wax cleaner to remove old wax/sealant and oxidized paint. Using a non-abrasive product on a regular basis will preserve your clear coat. As long as the paint stays scratch free you will not have to polish again. Realistically though your paint will likely get scratched from normal use of the car and you will need to polish at least once a year.
 
dank311 said:
Thanks! I cant believe she is almost a year old.

But it seems that these will be the following things I need

1) PC buffer (not sure what is most cost effecient model)

2) Sheepskin mitt, and MF towels - Eurow and Pakshak

3) Car wash - ?

4) Clay Bar Kit - Mother or Clay Magic?

5) Polish - Menzerna ?

6) Cleaner - Klasse AIO

7) Glaze - ?

8) Wax (probably use both..a combo of Polymer and Caranuba) - Souveran or Natty Blue

9) Speed detailer to use between wax intervals -

10) Tire Shine - ?



I think thats pretty much all I need right.
Click to expand...



My for for #3 would be poorboy's super slick and suds. Great lubricity and isn't harsh on my LSP's.

Clay Magic for the claybar... only because i haven't used the mothers kit so i can compare the two!

Menzerna makes a good series of polishes. Go for it.

My glazes are Clearkote's Vanilla Moose Hand Wax Glaze and Red Moose Machine Glaze. Both work well, are easy to remove, and leave a dripping wet finish.

Go for natty's blue for the wax. 95% of the looks of souveran for 1/4 the price. It's a great wax.

Clearkote's Quikshine is my go to quick detailing spray. Gives the paint that extra bit of slickness and leaves a nice gloss.

Meg's endurance tire gel. either the matte or the shiney formula is fine. Both will last weeks and thru 3-4 scrubbings in a car wash.
 
I have a question Im just curious about at the moment...The abbrasive polishes will remove a cut (AKA scratch) in the clear by leveling the clear around it to the same level, or depth, of the scratch. So, how many times can you polish a car with an abbrasive polish until the clear coat becomes soo thin that it would need to be recoated?
 
dank311 said:
I have a question Im just curious about at the moment...The abbrasive polishes will remove a cut (AKA scratch) in the clear by leveling the clear around it to the same level, or depth, of the scratch. So, how many times can you polish a car with an abbrasive polish until the clear coat becomes soo thin that it would need to be recoated?
Click to expand...

The answer to your question is one I give to many detailing questions . . . it depends. How thick was your paint to begin with? How aggressive was the polish you used? How aggressive was the pad? How many passes did you make? How long did you buff? Did you use a D/A polisher or a rotary? I'm sure you get the idea from all my questions that there are a lot of factors involved.
 
ah.. THAT question. It really depends on what your using to polish and how often you polish. I really can't say how many times you can fully compound and polish a new paintjob before you burn thru the clear, but it's not going to be too many. Just try to keep your polishing to a minimum and try hiding defects with glazes instead.
 
Yea, I understand all those factors come into play. Do you think it would be best if I just tried a non abraisive polish and Glaze first, and just leave out the abbrasive polishes for now. I mean, it will probably be a pretty drastic change from what I have used on it in the past. I might be content with it at that point, but then again, I have never used these products before. I know it might be hard to tell but from the pics I posted, but do you think I should still use an abbrasive polish? Or can I get by with just doing wash, clay, pre cleaner(like AIO), glaze, sealant, caranuba?
 
dank311 said:
Yea, I understand all those factors come into play. Do you think it would be best if I just tried a non abraisive polish and Glaze first, and just leave out the abbrasive polishes for now. I mean, it will probably be a pretty drastic change from what I have used on it in the past. I might be content with it at that point, but then again, I have never used these products before. I know it might be hard to tell but from the pics I posted, but do you think I should still use an abbrasive polish? Or can I get by with just doing wash, clay, pre cleaner(like AIO), glaze, sealant, caranuba?
Click to expand...

I think you need to provide more detail about your situation. Do you have a scratch you want to remove or was that just a hypothetical? What kind of car is this? How old is it? What has been done to maintain it to this point? What condition is the paint in? Are there any swirls? Do you have a picture of your paint you can post? If you want to get the best answer always provide the most detail possible in your question.
 
Hey Mike



All the answers to your questions are on page 1 of this thread, as well as pics of my car.

I am mostly trying to get swirls and light oxidation and water spots. But it is only a year old. I mostly just want it to good and maintain it properly. In the past I have only washed, clayed, and waxed with polymer..and used spray wax/detailer in btw wax intervals. Mostly NXT products. But, now that I have been on here reading for a few months, I am ready to buy new, better quality products that won't continue to cause marring, swirls, etc...

thanks again everyone :)
 
dank311- I wouldn't hesitate to polish that out with mild abrasives, especially since you haven't done so before (should still be nice thick factory clear). Most of the pros on this forum wouldn't hesitate to go at that with a rotary. But I'd get a foamgun and work on your wash technique so you don't have to do this polishing very often. There *is* only a limited amount of clear to work with.



At the risk of sounding critical and/or otherwise like a jerk, most the marring is gonna come from how you wash/dry it (so you gotta develop better wash technique) and from how you treat the car when you use it (so you gotta develop good habits). Learning how to get (abrasive) dirt off the paint without marring it is incredibly difficult, but it's the foundation of having a marring-free car. No way I can wash without marring unless I use the foamgun, and even then, well, [stuff] happens. Besides washing properly, work on *never* touching the paint during the day-to-day use of the car; you can't touch dirty paint without marring the finish. Develop methods of closing the trunk/etc. without touching it. Most people let their fingers/nails hit the paint when the open the doors, touch the doors again when the close them, and otherwise do things that're guaranteed to do damage. As my wife tells her friends and family- "only touch the doorhandles, that's what they're for". And then there's what to do during trips to the dealer for service....Black is tough in that there's really no margin for error since everything shows.
 
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