Detailing Product Q's for old guy

J

jdhermit

New member
Hello...first post and need a bit of help.

Always washed and waxed my cars, but want to step up a little bit.

Bought a new Red Mazda 3. And it is BRIGHT red. So I want to keep it looking that way for a long time.



This past weekend I clayed it, then used NXT 2.0. Its "ok", but thought about going further. I *did* use some maguire's polish of some sort under the NXT on the hood, and it looked like crap. It was all swirly and I couldn't make it look decent so I washed the hood with Dawn and just put the NXT on it.

Was thinking about going either Griot's or Poorboy's. So if anyone would be good enough to answer any of these, I'd really appreciate it. My head is spinning from TMI on the internet!

1) removing the NXT 2.0- Dawn again, Griot's paint prep, Poorboys professional polish, or something else? THere are some very fine swirl marks from the dealership, but not terrible, and now I'm scared that "polish" will turn out the way Maguire's did. What will do the least damage to my paint, or is that a non-issue?

2) w/ griots, i was going to use the sealant with a carnuba wax over it, should I use the hand polish (again, fearing polish...is that dumb?)

3) w/ poorboys, I'm stumped...ex-p or ex sealant? natty's over it? which one?

4) I know there are other products out there too (not really interested in Zaino), I've just kind of gravitated to either Griot or Poorboy (they look similarly priced, funnily enough). If I'm TOTALLY missing the boat on a line of products, let me know.



So, if it matter's, here's details- I do it all by hand (*might* get a PC this summer, just not 100% sure) and I wax usually 2 or 3 times a year.



Any help you can give is appreciated...If the answer is "eh, just keep using the NXT 2, then that's fine, but I dunno, it didn't quite "pop"...



Thanks!



jd
 
I can't help you with your product selection because the only PB product I use is the wheel sealant. I can tell you that a wax is not going to help you with your swirl problems. In order to make paint flawless, it must be polished, sometimes with several steps ranging from harsh to finishing. Unfortunately polishing by hand is a gigantic waste of time IMO. I would just leave the NXT 2.0 on and buy some DWG to maintain the gloss until you can get your hands on a machine (be it PC, UDM, or some variation) to properly polish the paint. Check the classifieds....many people buy PCs and find their limit quickly, so they go buy a rotary.
 
If you're working by hand and want the best bang for your buck easy to use products; here's what I would do...



Wash: Griots; Poorboy's SuperSlick; or Meg's NXT or Gld Class



Polish: Griots Hand Polish



Wax/Sealant: Optimum OptiSeal



If you just "want" to use a carnauba over it you can, but OOS is great on its own and its soooo easy its hard to argue with. PB's Natty's Blue looks *excellent* on bright red. I've got an F150 and 350 that everyone drools over when I've got them wearing Natty's Blue.



I would not use EX or EXP. They don't last compared to other products on the market; don't have a "wow" factor look and are susceptible to bird bomb etching.
 
I'm an old guy too. pc's were made for us old guys. But if you don't want to spend the bucks on a pc, I suggest that you try Meguiar's ColorX. It's a one step one/cleaner wax that will remove and/or fill some of the swirls. I'd follow up with an application of NXT. No hurry -- the ColorX offers considerable protection. Apply both products with a foam pad and remove the residue with a good microfiber polishing cloth. You may be satisfied just using the ColorX. I usually wax my vehicles about once every six-eight weeks. Most of the time I do not need to use a cleaner/wax like ColorX. The NXT gets the job done. Sometimes I even do the job by hand just to keep in shape. :D



Tom :cool:
 
mblgjr,

thanks...very helpful. I posted on another forum and someone there said the Natty Blue on red paint looked good as well.

So EX/EXP don't last as well? Glad you told me that. Do you have an opinion on the Griots Sealants?

I've never heard of optiseal...that good eh? Does it last?

Sorry for more questions!



tquil, yeah, I'm hoping to get a PC, but there's a lot of other things that seem to suck my money out of my wallet these days, so I ain't betting on it quite yet!



thanks
 
I have not used the Griots sealants; but haven't heard anything negative about them.



OptiSeal really is a great product and lasts quite a while. Its also ridiculously easy to use; so you'll be more likely to use it.



Optimum Car Wax (OCW) may also be worth taking a look at. Looks warmer and more like a carnauba when compared to OOS and lasts as well. Its a spray wax with exceptional durability.



Natty's Blue DOES look spectacular on red; it just doesn't have the durability (Looks great for a month; durability is waining in 45-90days).



I used EXP for a bit on white and silver. Didn't make the metallic pop and was highly susceptible to allowing bonded contaminants; moreso than any other LSP I've ever used. I then go to searching on here later and found that several had complaints of the same; along with bird bomb etching. The only thing I can give it credit for is easy on/off.
 
jdhermit- Welcome to Autopia!



I've coached a lot of not-fanatical people about this stuff, including my late father, who got serious about it in his 70s and was still doing most of his own detailing well into his 80s. In other words, I know about making this stuff reasonably doable for normal people ;)



I'm also familiar with a fair number of Griot's produts and I have a Mazda.



If you're working by hand, go with 1Z brand Paint Polish (sources: Welcome to Exceldetail.com! or Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing ). Period. End of suggestions. It's that open-and-shut..really. I have Griot's Hand Polish and a lot of their other products, and a shelfload (or ten ;) ) of other companies' stuff, and nothing comes close to the 1Z if you're working by hand (or PC either for that matter).



Top with Collinite brand wax (same sources), and then just wash it for months before you have to worry about it again. Collinite 476S paste wax rivals or bests most sealants (I use sealants on two of our vehicles) when it comes to durability and protection and sure beats the waxes that Griot's sells. Use some Griot's SpeedShine (or their Spray-on Wax) after each wash to keep it looking fresh and feeling slick (so contaminants don't stick).



I know everybody has opinions, but I truly believe the above is so foolproof that it could come with a money-back guarantee and I'm utterly confident that it's the right solution for you. Heh heh, sorry for the hard-sell, but I'd hate for you to go the wrong way and experience further frustration.
 
Accumulator:



Thank you for your post. I think I fall into that same category of "not-fanatical", but on the other hand I want to learn how to do a good job. So I'm going to follow your advice (1Z Paint Polish followed by Collinite 476s).



However, I'm thinking about adding a few other steps, as follows.



Wash

Clay

Paint Cleaner

Megs ScratchX on major scratches

1Z Paint Polish

NXT 2.0 (for a really wet look on a dark metallic blue paint)

Collinite 476s



All work will be done by hand unless I happen on a good deal for a UDM or other ROB.



Questions:



1. Using the ScratchX will prove whether or not its worth the trouble before too much effort is wasted. However, using a paint cleaner will take more effort. Do you feel using a paint cleaner is appropriate, or does the 1z paint polish do the same? If a paint cleaner is appropriate, what do you recommend?



2. Do you think a coat of NXT 2.0 prior to the 476s will result in a wetter look or bring out more of the metallic? Or do you think it's a waste of effort/product?



I have all of the products I listed above in my possession except for the 1Z. I will be ordering that shortly, but I'd prefer to first know whether or not I should order a paint cleaner along with it.



Thank you for your help!
 
03F250 said:
..I think I fall into that same category of "not-fanatical", but on the other hand I want to learn how to do a good job. So I'm going to follow your advice (1Z Paint Polish followed by Collinite 476s).



However, I'm thinking about adding a few other steps, as follows.



Wash

Clay

Paint Cleaner

Megs ScratchX on major scratches

1Z Paint Polish

NXT 2.0 (for a really wet look on a dark metallic blue paint)

Collinite 476s



All work will be done by hand unless I happen on a good deal for a UDM or other ROB.



Questions:



1. Using the ScratchX will prove whether or not its worth the trouble before too much effort is wasted. However, using a paint cleaner will take more effort. Do you feel using a paint cleaner is appropriate, or does the 1z paint polish do the same? If a paint cleaner is appropriate, what do you recommend?
Click to expand...



No point in doing anything unnecessary :D



So no need for the paint cleaner if you clay and then use the 1Z PP- those two steps will clean the paint just fine unless you have some unusual problem.



Ditto for the Scratch-X, as the 1ZPP will work at least as well.



If you have any sorta-serious RIDS (Random Isolated Deep Scratches), you can diminish them by going over them numerous times with the 1Z PP. There are more aggressive measures/products you can try at a later date if you decide that it's necessary. Funny how some "awful scratches" (scare quotes intentional ;) can become quite livable when the whole vehicle is all shined up and generally looking great ;)



2. Do you think a coat of NXT 2.0 prior to the 476s will result in a wetter look or bring out more of the metallic? Or do you think it's a waste of effort/product?
Click to expand...



This gets into the realm of the subjective, and we look at these things through different eyes.



I can see your point on the NXT, but it's just so short-lived (and inferior with regard to durability and protection) compared to the 476S that I'm not a fan of it. Hmmm :think: I wonder if you'd like the Collinite 845 Insulator Wax better :nixweiss



FWIW, I have the 476S on a carbon metallic (sorta metallic black) vehicle and I had it on a pewter metallic (darkish silver) one before that. I didn't notice anything that needed improved upon IMO and I'm pretty particular.



If you put the 476S on top of the NXT you'll probably just see the look of the 476S as it'll be what's ultimately between your eyes and the paint. Putting the NXT on top of the 476S would probably compromise the 476S at least a little, but I don't know for sure.



I'd try the 476S and see how it looks to you...IMO 90% of it's gonna depend on how much/well you polish with the 1Z PP anyhow.



Have some good microfiber towels to buff off the 1Z and the wax. I'd use foam wax applicator pads to apply the 1Z, rubbing it in well until it's almost dry (OK if it dries while you reach for your towel, as long as you work it a good long time to break it down).



Do a ~2' x 2' section with the 1Z, buff it off, and see if it needs another go. Yeah, it'll take time. But the 1Z leaves wax behind so you could wait to wax until after the next wash.



If you find it *really* slow/tough going (and remember that the 1Z is the *easiest* option, it could be a lot worse!) you can just polish one panel or so after each of a series of washes. Don't let it get to where it's an overwhelming job lest you start getting fatigued and/or cutting corners.



Put the wax on *THIN*, most people use infinitely too much wax. A can/bottle oughta last for many, many years. For that matter, don't use too much of the 1Z either. Better to use a small amount and work small areas anyway.



If you get a chance, please post back about how this works for you. Even if it's negative feedback, I really do value hearing how my suggestions work for people.
 
Wash (megs gold class or deep crystal?)

Clay

1z PP

476s



I appreciate your informative response and will definitely post my results. It may be a couple of weeks, since I likely won't have the 1zpp until next week.



Thank you very much Accumulator!
 
Finally got my 1ZPP.



How do I work this stuff by hand? The bottle says to put it on, let it dry, and buff it off like a lsp.



I was planning to just rub and rub and rub till the product broke down.



Should I use the rub-rub method to treat individual scratches/scuffs, and then use the apply-dry-buff method on the whole vehicle?
 
03F250 said:
Finally got my 1ZPP.



How do I work this stuff by hand? The bottle says to put it on, let it dry, and buff it off like a lsp.



I was planning to just rub and rub and rub till the product broke down.



Should I use the rub-rub method to treat individual scratches/scuffs, and then use the apply-dry-buff method on the whole vehicle?
Click to expand...



The rub-rub-rub with some moderate pressure is the way to do the individual RIDS (Random Isolated Deep Scratches...might as well school you on some of our lingo ;) ).



For the rest of the vehicle, you don't really just put it on, you still need to rub it until the abrasives break down, but you use less pressure. I think that by the time you do some RIDS you'll get a feel for how that works. Generally, you rub until it's *almost* all dried up/disappeared. It'll probably about dry the rest of the way on its own while you're putting down the applicator and getting your buffing towel.



The dried residue should wipe off easily if you don't use too much product and if you work it long enough before buffing it off.



Do the vehicle one panel at a time, and divide that panel up into sections and do each of *those* one at a time. You'll have to do some areas more than once as the polish is fairly mild.



So: pick a panel, like the trunk lid. Do the RIDS until they look close to good enough (and go for that as opposed to perfect). Then divide the lid up into maybe four-six sections and do each of those, using not-too-much pressure, working the polish until it's almost dry. DON'T use too much polish!! Then wipe off the now-dry residue and see how it looks. Either do it again or move on to the next section. Watch that your applicator doesn't get all loaded up with product (if it does, wash it out with dawn, squeeze it dry in a towel). When the whole trunk lid is done, get a fresh buffing towel and fog the panel with your breath and give it a final very gentle buff (just enough to clear off the condensation from your breath). Then *really* inspect it (good lighting is a must) and make sure it's OK before going on to the next panel).



I'd do the trunk lid first as a learing experience. Then the roof (it's highest) and then the hood. Then I'd work down each side. I'd do the lower-most areas last.



If something seems to be going wrong, stop and see if somebody here can offer advice. Don't do the whole vehicle and *then* discover that things went awry ;) But don't worry, I consider something like that to be a very remote possibility.
 
Accumulator said:
The rub-rub-rub with some moderate pressure is the way to do the individual RIDS (Random Isolated Deep Scratches...might as well school you on some of our lingo ;) ).



For the rest of the vehicle, you don't really just put it on, you still need to rub it until the abrasives break down, but you use less pressure. I think that by the time you do some RIDS you'll get a feel for how that works. Generally, you rub until it's *almost* all dried up/disappeared. It'll probably about dry the rest of the way on its own while you're putting down the applicator and getting your buffing towel.



The dried residue should wipe off easily if you don't use too much product and if you work it long enough before buffing it off.



Do the vehicle one panel at a time, and divide that panel up into sections and do each of *those* one at a time. You'll have to do some areas more than once as the polish is fairly mild.



So: pick a panel, like the trunk lid. Do the RIDS until they look close to good enough (and go for that as opposed to perfect). Then divide the lid up into maybe four-six sections and do each of those, using not-too-much pressure, working the polish until it's almost dry. DON'T use too much polish!! Then wipe off the now-dry residue and see how it looks. Either do it again or move on to the next section. Watch that your applicator doesn't get all loaded up with product (if it does, wash it out with dawn, squeeze it dry in a towel). When the whole trunk lid is done, get a fresh buffing towel and fog the panel with your breath and give it a final very gentle buff (just enough to clear off the condensation from your breath). Then *really* inspect it (good lighting is a must) and make sure it's OK before going on to the next panel).



I'd do the trunk lid first as a learing experience. Then the roof (it's highest) and then the hood. Then I'd work down each side. I'd do the lower-most areas last.



If something seems to be going wrong, stop and see if somebody here can offer advice. Don't do the whole vehicle and *then* discover that things went awry ;) But don't worry, I consider something like that to be a very remote possibility.
Click to expand...



When you're polishing by hand with 1Z, how large a section would you work on (1'X1', 2'X2', a full panel, etc.), and how long would it typically take to work that section?



Thanks
 
pduck said:
When you're polishing by hand with 1Z, how large a section would you work on (1'X1', 2'X2', a full panel, etc.), and how long would it typically take to work that section?
Click to expand...



pduck- Welcome to Autopia!



Working by hand, I'd never work an area larger than 1' x 1'. I don't even polish whole panels by machine.



How long will depend on the environment and how vigorously you working the product, and to be honest, I've never taken note of how long I spend on such stuf (isn't that goofy considering I've been doing this since the '70s?!?) so I really :nixweiss Sheesh, seems like a simple enough question huh :chuckle:



Go by how the polish behaves. You want to keep working it until it's almost dry but not quite. If you overwork the 1Z to where it *is* dry, no biggie, which isn't true of many other products (it's one more reason I recommend 1Z so often).
 
I FINALLY got around to putting the 1Z to use this weekend. We got a different beater car (01 Olds Intrigue- silver) that needed some touching up. Many scratches, but overall the coating was in pretty good shape. The 1Z worked by hand made many lighter scratches completely disappear, but the bigger scratches remained. No matter, it was still a heck of an improvement of the Megs ScratchX!



Ended up getting one coat of collonite 476 applied before calling it a day yesterday (I had to clean out and scrub my wife's minivan too). I'd like to get another coat or two applied, but odds are I won't get to it till fall. Besides, now that I'm all practiced up on my beater, I have to tackle my good vehicle (03 F250 diesel- dark blue metallic). Maybe by fall I'll get my hands on a good UDM or other ROB, and I'll really be able to put that 1Z to work.



Thanks again, Accumulator!
 
03F250- Glad to hear things worked out so well on the Olds, hope the truck's the same way.



If you ever want to get more aggressive and tackle the deeper marring, there are 1Z solutions for that too ;)



Oh, and I'm currently shying away for telling people to layer the Collinite 476S as it can *sometimes* have issues if you do the coats too close together. See how well it holds up with just one, and/or consider doing another coat in a few weeks or so if you find you have the time (and inclination ;) ).
 
I recently did my wife's 11 year old car by hand that had never been polished, waxed or hand washed. Based on information from the Megs website I used M105 rather than ScatchX as it is much more aggressive, but is new technology with some type of micro particles. In any case, I applied with a MF applicator using firm pressure with back and forth and up an down movement--once to the entire car and twice over the deeper scratches. I did this all over the 4th weekend and got very good results--all the swirl marks were gone and the deeper scratches were very subdude. Then applied a coat of ColorX with firm pressure. It was allot of work but paid off--if I did it again I'd do one panel a day until the complete car was finished. Good luck!!



Here is a link to my process and some pictures By hand-- - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online
 
I was just logging in to ask about M105. I was reading about it some other place on the net. Sounds like a little more aggressive polish than the 1zpp and I thought it might be worth a try on the scratches I didn't get out of the Olds. I'm sure I'll run into similar scratches on my truck when i get around to working on it.



What do you think Accumulator? Any experience with the M105?





Also... what are the more aggressive 1z polishes you're referring to? Do you know how they compare to the M105 (which is probably easier to get my hands on)?
 
Holden_C04 said:
I find 1Z to be rather unfriendly with soft paint....
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That's what I hear, but no first-hand experience where it worked out that way. I'd expect the Metallic Polish to be OK though, as I've used it on *very* soft black ss with good results.



Relative to this thread, I wouldn't expect the clear on the Ford truck to be too soft for the 1Z approach.



03F250 said:
I was just logging in to ask about M105. I was reading about it some other place on the net. Sounds like a little more aggressive polish than the 1zpp and I thought it might be worth a try on the scratches I didn't get out of the Olds. I'm sure I'll run into similar scratches on my truck when i get around to working on it.



What do you think Accumulator? Any experience with the M105?





Also... what are the more aggressive 1z polishes you're referring to? Do you know how they compare to the M105 (which is probably easier to get my hands on)?
Click to expand...



I've never used M105. It's a *LOT* more aggressive than 1Z PP, utterly different end of the scale.



I use 1z Pasta Intensiv for most my aggressive work, and it's usually plenty aggressive for me; it's probably as aggressive as I'd recommend for somebody with limited experience, and I'd caution you about thinning the clear too much.



Most people working by PC/UDM/etc. end up with residual marring (like on the Olds) because they give up after a reasonable amount of work..I find that with the Pasta Intensiv I have to force myself to quit *for fear of overthinning the clear* long before I'm tempted to say "sheesh, that's enough, I'll live with it". I haven't used it on soft/softish clear, but it took out wetsanding scratches on my GM clear with no problems at all. The M105 should perform similarly, but even faster and more aggressively.



I'd expect the Pasta Intensiv to be more user-friendly for most people than the M105 (which some people find very easy while others find it very tricky). You could very well be one of the people who loves the M105...so I guess it's time to just flip a coin :D



Just remember to say "good enough" when those deep scratches start to disappear like magic...you want plenty of clear left on there for the next time (well, the next many times) so don't go for perfection even if it's attainable.



Plan to follow either of these aggressive products with the 1Z PP to get a ready-to-wax finish.
 
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