Cyclo > Flex ; + my Flex burnt my paint =(

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efnfast

New member
Just as a foreward, I've been using my cyclo fairly successfully for the last 2yrs; it will do, for example, a 95% correction on my Z06 clear. I figured I'd buy a Flex to see if it has some extra oomph.



It definately has more power than the lil' cyclo; I was able to remove a few marks that I've never been able to before. However, in the long run, I found the cyclo to be just as good. I separated several panels on my g35 and tried my usual cyclo routine (orange/SIP, green/106) and the Flex (orange/SIP, white/106). To my eye, the cyclo did a weeeeeee bit of a better job overall (which could be due to my inexperience with the Flex, don't know). Perhaps if I were a professional detailer I wouldn't like it as much, but for taking care of my 5cars, it does a pretty good job.



Now the bad news - I tried to get out a scratch that has vexed me for the last 7yrs and I burnt the paint with my Flex. Totally my fault - I got frustrated and used a yellow Lake Country pad with Menzerna Power Gloss (highest cut) at speed 6. It was directly underneath the door jamb, and when doing it I got into a coughing fit and accidently stopped and pressed the Flex down fairly hard. When I looked, I had a 5'' strip of burnt clear along the edge of the door jamb :grrr



Totally my fault for not pulling the buffer back and stopping it, and also for going too aggressive =(





So in my opinion, the cyclo (Again, speaking as a non-prof. detailer) is better than the Flex because it seems to be able to do 98% of the what hte Flex can, with the added safety that I can put a yellow scrubbing pad on it, STAND ontop of the cyclo and leave it sitting in 1 spot for an hour and I still probably wouldn't burn the paint (okay, a bit extreme, but you get what I'm saying ;) )



Oh yea, I also got my cyclo wool cutting pads today - I don't know why everybody doesn't like these? :think:



Granted, they look retarded, almost like somebody took a baby sheep and glued it onto the back of a velcro pad, BUT they do work quite well for correcting relatively serious defects.



Cyclo :2thumbs:



Now, after spending $500 on the Flex+Flex accessories I have to go buy some GLoss-It polish since cyclo users are raving about that brand and how well it works with the cyclo :clap:
 
About that burned spot, when you say under the door jamb, were you on a piece of plastic cladding? Plastic has very poor thermal conductivity compared to metal and you always need to be much more careful (even with a PC) on especially the softer plastics like bumper covers and some of that lower body stuff. There was a thread a long time ago where someone just melted the paint off some under-door cladding on a blue WRX, just like you did.
 
Are you sure it's burned through? Post some pics... Yellow LC foam leaves nasty compounding marks, especially with a DA style buffer. It can fool you into thinking that you've burned through.



I thought for sure that by now the Obama administration would ban Yellow LC pads. I know it's the first thing I'd do as president.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
About that burned spot, when you say under the door jamb, were you on a piece of plastic cladding? Plastic has very poor thermal conductivity compared to metal and you always need to be much more careful (even with a PC) on especially the softer plastics like bumper covers and some of that lower body stuff. There was a thread a long time ago where someone just melted the paint off some under-door cladding on a blue WRX, just like you did.
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It was the edge of the door jam - if you think of the door jam in its entirety, it's like an oval/circle. I burnt around the edge of the oval/circle because that's where the buffer stopped and was angled slightly.



SuperBee364 said:
Are you sure it's burned through? Post some pics... Yellow LC foam leaves nasty compounding marks, especially with a DA style buffer. It can fool you into thinking that you've burned through.



I thought for sure that by now the Obama administration would ban Yellow LC pads. I know it's the first thing I'd do as president.
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Definately not compounding mark - the clear was VERY milkey white. No pics because i covered it up with a bit of touchpaint. Because of the area it blends in 'okay', but still visible to my eye to remind me of what happens when I do stupid ****.
 
efnfast said:
Just as a foreward, I've been using my cyclo fairly successfully for the last 2yrs; it will do, for example, a 95% correction on my Z06 clear.. However, in the long run, I found the cyclo to be just as good. I separated several panels on my g35 and tried my usual cyclo routine (orange/SIP, green/106) and the Flex (orange/SIP, white/106). To my eye, the cyclo did a weeeeeee bit of a better job overall . ..
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I never get all that impressive correction via Cyclo (at least not on hard clear), but I do think it finishes out nicer than the Flex. I switch from the Flex to the Cyclo as soon as the serious correction is done same as I used to switch from the rotaryies to the Cyclo.



Now the bad news ..
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Sorry to hear about that. Note that you could've done the same damage with a PC/4" yellow. No matter what you just gotta stay on top of things literally every second when you're being aggressive.



So in my opinion, the cyclo (Again, speaking as a non-prof. detailer) is better than the Flex because it seems to be able to do 98% of the what hte Flex can, with the added safety that I can put a yellow scrubbing pad on it, STAND ontop of the cyclo and leave it sitting in 1 spot for an hour and I still probably wouldn't burn the paint (okay, a bit extreme, but you get what I'm saying ;) )
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Eh...if the Cyclo does the correction for you that's one thing, on harder clears it just doesn't do the work for me. The Flex knocks *hours* off the job in my case.



But as for being able to use careless techniques, well...I wouldn't want to really put the idiot-proof thing to a real test ;) I mean really...I don't allow my concentration to wander for a split-second even when I'm just applying wax.



I know you feel bad about what happened and I don't mean to rub it in, but I'd make sure you're blaming yourself for the real mistake.



Heh heh..I'm always saying how a *rotary* won't hurt your paint unless you do something I'd never expect!



Oh yea, I also got my cyclo wool cutting pads today - I don't know why everybody doesn't like these?
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I didn't like them because they didn't do as much correction as I woulda expected. Using 1Z Pasta Inensiv they simply didn't go the correction as well as foam cutting pads for some reason :think:



I tried them on a PC and they didn't do well on that either. I like PFW *much* better but maybe the Cyclo wool (they're the same as Edge wool) would work a lot better with a different product like Power Gloss or M105 or maybe the Gloss It.
 
Accumulator said:
I never get all that impressive correction via Cyclo (at least not on hard clear), but I do think it finishes out nicer than the Flex. I switch from the Flex to the Cyclo as soon as the serious correction is done same as I used to switch from the rotaryies to the Cyclo.







Sorry to hear about that. Note that you could've done the same damage with a PC/4" yellow. No matter what you just gotta stay on top of things literally every second when you're being aggressive.











I know you feel bad about what happened and I don't mean to rub it in, but I'd make sure you're blaming yourself for the real mistake.









I didn't like them because they didn't do as much correction as I woulda expected. Using 1Z Pasta Inensiv they simply didn't go the correction as well as foam cutting pads for some reason :think:
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I can do about a 90% correction on my z06 with orange/SIP - I'd bet a flex orange/sip would be able to bump it up to 95% in a shorter work time though. I don't plan on selling my Flex, I just don't plan on using it unless I've got some serious correction that needs getting done.



I definitely don't blame the Flex - as I said, bad luck, wasn't thinking, doing something stupid. **** happens. Just sucks when it happens to me =)



I found the wool pads work fairly well with SIP. Using 1z PI, I got next to no correction with them (same with other products like as Meguiars 105). The SIP and 106 seem to work fairly well though with the cyclo products.



I'm going to try some gloss it products since they seem designed to work well with the cyclo (instead of the cyclo just being an afterthought) and report back - if they (gloss it products) cut better than SIP I'll be like :getdown





edit: Right now my intention is to do my usual correction - cyclo/orange/SIP. If that fails, cyclo/wool/SIP, and if that fails, then flex/orange/SIP or flex/yellow/SIP if the panel has sufficient clear and is perfectly straight. I'm not doing this for a living, so 90-95% correction is my eyes is just as good as 100% (I know, I know, that's sacrilegious talk on Autopia =) )
 
efnfast- Heh heh, as far as I'm concerned if a person's car looks good *to them* then it looks good period :D Just never know how some of those "100%" vehicles would look in person anyhow ;)



Isn't it weird about the wool pads on the Cyclo?!? So they do work with SIP huh? It'll be interesting to hear what you think of the Gloss It stuff.



I also wonder how the SurBuff pads would work on the Cyclo with M105 :think:
 
Neer heard of SurBuff before. However, I had 100% better luck with 105 by hand than on the cyclo.



It's funny because I've had fairly poor experiences with Meguiar's lineup on the cyclo, other than 83. Everything else either really hazed up (and I had to go over it with another polish to remove) or just didn't work. :think:
 
I don't see why people like the Flex, if you want serious correction use a rotary, if you just need to rub off some glaze or wax use the PC. The Flex seems like an inferior rotary or a very powerful PC which isn't necessary for minor correction or just removing residual product (just more risk for damage).
 
efnfast said:
It's funny because I've had fairly poor experiences with Meguiar's lineup on the cyclo, other than 83. Everything else either really hazed up (and I had to go over it with another polish to remove) or just didn't work. :think:
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I never really liked Meg's stuff via Cyclo either. #80 works OK though. I like the Cyclo better with 1Z and the old 3M PI-III line (RC 05933 and MG 05937).



dan46n2 said:
I don't see why people like the Flex, if you want serious correction use a rotary, if you just need to rub off some glaze or wax use the PC. The Flex seems like an inferior rotary or a very powerful PC which isn't necessary for minor correction or just removing residual product (just more risk for damage).
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[shrug] to each their own, but I have a fair amount of rotary experience and I sure like using my Flex 3401 better than either of my (Makita or Metabo) rotaries.



I consider it more like a *superior* rotary because it doesn't leave holograms. And there's no learning curve related to sling and heat-related issues (I don't consider efnfast's unfortunate "oops!" to be all that Flex-centric; he coulda done the same damage with a PC/4" or *worse* damage with a rotary). Plus, it has a D/A-feel to it as opposed to a rotary-feel. Some of us simply like that better (and vice-versa).



The situations in which my rotaries are functionally superior seem very few and far between, and none of them are likely to be something a typical layman is likely to encounter (or be skilled enough to pull off).



If somebody simply *likes* a rotary better, cool. But I'd wager that most people who've used both the Flex and rotaries will say they like the Flex. And IMO it takes first-hand experience to know whether you like something like that.
 
The Cyclo is a very good underrated machine. When combined with the correct pad/product combination, it will correct. Best of all, it is so easy and pleasant to use.
 
WaxManRonnie said:
A yellow pad at speed 6? I think thats where you went wrong.

I don't think you should be using the yellow one at that speed.
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Yeah that's what I thought, that's extremely aggressive & I don't think a yellow pad/speed 6 should be used on anything, but that's just my opinion.
 
Out of curiousity, for future reference, what speed/pad combos would you avoid?



For example, for mild corrections no more than orange/speed 5



etc....



I know it's a broad question, but when I research the Flex on here I get so much confusing information. For example, yellow pads are the devil at higher speeds (make sense). Orange pads are a paint burn waiting to happen at any speed (huh?). Etc....
 
Maybe I am just a wuss, but I avoid the LC Yellow pad completely.



Why use LC Yellow when you could use something like PFW with the same cut and a better finish? Just seems silly to me... but it could just be me ;)
 
I haven't used my Flex 3401 all that much so far, but I just use it at 5. No problems with the orange pads at that speed. I'd try to pick a speed that works with the product in question, not flashing it too fast or, conversely, working so slowly as to be ineffective.



And yeah, I'd rather use PFW than yellow foam in most cases too.
 
I have used the Cyclo yellow wool with M105 a few times and it worked well. Now that I have a PC I don't use it much anymore. I did use the Cyclo Yellow Wool on my PC the other day to polish out some exhaust tips and it worked like a charm with 105( nothing else I tried would take out the defects but the wool took me under 30 seconds).
 
efnfast said:
Just as a foreward, I've been using my cyclo fairly successfully for the last 2yrs; it will do, for example, a 95% correction on my Z06 clear. I figured I'd buy a Flex to see if it has some extra oomph.



Cyclo :2thumbs:



Now, after spending $500 on the Flex+Flex accessories I have to go buy some GLoss-It polish since cyclo users are raving about that brand and how well it works with the cyclo :clap:
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Did you ever purchase the Gloss-It polish for use with your Cyclo?



If so, I'd like to hear your opinion on it.



Jeff
 
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