Clay experiment

C

clint

New member
I posted a similar message on the audizine forum-

Check this

out.. I discovered that this Handy Tac stuff is for all I can tell, the same exact substance as detailing clay! Except it costs a small fraction what clay does, and is available all over the place- I got this pack at target for example.

It smells, feels, is as heavy as, stretches the same- everything- and works the same too!

I used the handi-tak on my a8 hood and it performed exactly the same as the mothers clay bar that I was comparing it to.

So if you are wondering what is up with clay but don't feel like spending 15-20 dollars on a kit,

just get a pack of handi-tak and some detailer spray and go for it.

I went even cheaper and used car wash soap and water as the lube- It leaves soap spots, but if you are going to wash and wax after the clay, then you'll just be wasting detailer spray if soapy water is just as good- which it is..

Since I already bought the mothers kit, I use it on the 'clean' parts of the car, above the rocker panels, and the cheaper but just as effective handi tac on paint below the bottom of the doors.

From now on- it's handi-tak all the way!



Ok now I gotta edit this cause I worded it too harshly- BUt I'll leave the above unaltered so as not to break any refrences made in replies.



I should restate-

I bought some mothers claybar and it reminded me of something I had seen before.

I saw the handi tak in my office and noticed was the same sick yellow color as the mothers.

I played with the stuff and compared it to the mothers clay and using all the senses I have at my human disposal, it appeared to be the same substance.

I tried using the handi tak as a subititute for the mothers clay side by side on my audi a8 hood, and both the mothers and the handi tak felt, worked and removed stuff from the hood just the same, and the hood feels the same in both areas.



Edit- See my post way below where I compared the action of both on my volvo's tar spots- the mothers clay works much better- the handi tak, if used at all, may serve as a 'pre-clay' life extender for the 'real' clay..



I am not saying the 90 cent handi tak is the same exact thing as mothers claybar. I am saying it looks, feels, has the same hardness and density, and in my short, one-data point experiment, performed the same, in my observation.



ANd yes, mothers clay sticks posters on the wall just as well as handi tak does.



please don't hate me, I'm just trying to help..

Maybe it would be something good to use on painted wheels or something to save on 'real' clay..



Also I'm changing the title of the thread to one less asinine than 'clay scam'- thanks..

.



tac1.JPG
:wavey
 
The structure of that clay is different, Auto grade clay is much more dense. Thus, it will hold particles it's traps much better and "hide" them during the kneeding process. The clay you have pictured is intended to be used for adhesion, you don't want this on a painted surface. It would not surprise me if there are trace amounts of glue in that particular clay.



They are two very different products intended for two very different purposes, and are not interchangeable.
 
I know that the clay has just got to be different than the tak stuff, and I know posted way boldly there. sorry-

But just for fun, if you are bored and standing around in a target while you wife is looking at little wooden picture frames or what not, just look at a pack of the stuff, and maybe get some- it really is amazingly similar..



It wouldn't be the first time one substance was marketed two different ways..



It costs less than a dollar..
 
clint, i give you a :up for your efforts. that is the kind of experimentation a true autopian can't control about themselves. but, i have noticed that the autopians also experiment on a not so visible part of the car or even a junk yard test panel. what if the clay had been totally bad for paint? it's on your hood!:eek:



anyway, i appreciate your post. maybe i would use it on my BBQ grill, lawnmower or something else instead of the expensive detailing clay.;)
 
Ya know... Working for the product development department for a popular underwater photography company, I see this kind of stuff all the time... I would not be suprised in the slightest if these were the exact same product. I know you guys don't want to admit it, but there is a really good chance that they are the same product..



All of the physical properties seem to be the same, texture, malleability, absorbtion rate, etc... Try some of the chemical properties.. take a small chunk of each and burn it. check the odor, color, melting/boiling point and residue.. If you see something different, like some boiling liquid, or a different smell, than thats prolly the glue..



Another easy test.. grab some of the mothers clay, and use is as the wall tack...



Let us know!!
 
The mothers clay does stick things to the wall just like handi tak- maybe that would be a good use for a dropped bar?



I tore off a nub of each of the two and put them each on a sheet of aluminum foil. I heated the foil over my gas range and while heating, both blobs got softer at exactly the same rate, but then never melted, as the aluminum foil started to melt first. Both blobs exibited the same change in hardness when heated, and returned to the same state they started in before heating after cooling back down. During heating, neither made any smell to speak of, I guess I need something better than foil to heat them on.. But I don't care that much- and I doubt anyone else should either.



I mixed the test blobs together and did the taffy stretch thing to the composite blob and the mixed blob appears to be completely mixed, no matter how I stretch or knead the blob can I cannot detect one putty within the other- they mixed totally..
 
Clint - I can state with a great degree of confidence that our MOTHERS® California Gold® Clay Bar is not the same as "Tak" product you purchased at Target.



I would suggest you not use the Tak product on your automotive paint surface, as damage may occur.
 
I have tried out both the Mothers and the Handi-Tak on my yellow 84 volvo more extensively and I do agree that the Mothers works much better than the Handi tak. The mothers seems stiffer and more aggressive.



The handi tak took about three times the effort to remove tar spots, than the mothers, and in some places would not remove them at all, while the mothers bar removed them without much trouble.



The tak did seem to serve some good at getting the 'easy stuff' off like some dead paint and larger hunks of tar off of the paint.



I do still think it is safe to use handi tak as clay, but only as a 'pre-clay' clay, on really contaminated places, like just aft of the wheels under the car, places like that.



I still plan to use mothers clay for all 'proper' clay activities..
 
I like the fact that Clint did this, and I would not be suprised one bit if they were in fact the same. I don't know why some poeple just right off the bat say "no, they are not the same" if they have done no research or anything. Good job Clint.
 
Thanks, although my first post was somwhat flippant, I didnt mean to sound like anyone who bought and used proper clay was some kind of chump or anything- I just thought I'd seen that stuff before.



Think of all the different ways water could be marketed- thirst quencher, plant food, fire retardent, cleaner, coolant, boat floater, etc..



If I posted on a bottled water forum that I found a fire extinguisher filler that tasted the same as spring water, would it be so different? 'How could fire extinguisher filler taste any thing like bottled water- they are entirely different things, sold at different shops- you fool- you'll likely die if you drink that stuff!'



How did all this clay business start in the first place-? this stuff we are calling 'clay' obviously isn't any more related to real earthen clay than steel or blood. Somebody did an experiment someplace and it worked.. I'm sure everybody thought the guy was nuts- using clay instead of sandpaper..



I'm just so happy to have discovered mother's clay, that I want to clay every glossy surface I see now! I read on this forum it works on glass-

I gotta try that!
 
I also think it's good that you at least tried this and went out on a limb. I did something very similar in principle to this not long ago. I was also told it was a no no and given reasons, but I have to wonder if I'd try it again since everything turned out alright....



Maybe if you had a car you don't care too much about or need to polish the bejeezus out of anyway, you could use this stuff. :p
 
Ok I think I found the real difference between the two substances.



They are pretty much the same thing, only the handi tak lacks abrasive, while the detailer clay has abrasive.



Body shop supply distributers even stock the clay in different 'cuts' just like rubbing compound..



So maybe the handi tak with some comet cleanser added??:scared

I'm KIDDING!!!! relax...



http://www.leakpro.com/catalogue/techdata/tech8090.html
 
i'm still gonna check it out. i think i'll buy some handi tak and try it on one of the family's black cars. i want to see if it doesn't trap well and scratches. i dont see any reason to pay a lot more for something if it performs the same. i just might like some mild clay. some cars aren't that contaminated! anyways, i haven't seen any compelling evidence not to try it. :rolleyes:
 
For what it's worth, here is additional info from our chemist and product development team. Personally, it pains me to see "Mothers" and "scam" used in the same subject.

________________



“For the record Mothers Clay Bar is not the same as the “tak� products purchased at various retailers for “reusable adhesive�. Others have claimed that the same white “tak�, and blue “tak� resemble Meguiars and Clay Magic. This is not the first time that someone has looked for a cheaper alternative to “car cleaning clay�. There are many materials including this type of “reusable adhesive� that contain clay, and even abrasives or materials that have an abrasive property. Initially back in the early 90’s many were purchasing “modeling clay� as an attempt to circumvent purchasing “car cleaning clay�. Although “modeling clay� and “reusable adhesives� can have some similar properties, they do not perform exactly the same as quality car cleaning clay. Modeling clay and reusable adhesives are manufactured for those purposes only. Mothers clay bar and other quality car cleaning clays are manufactured and quality controlled for the purpose of removing contaminants from the delicate surface of automotive finishes. There are many that have wasted time and money searching for modeling clay, and reusable adhesive that look and/or perform similar to quality “car cleaning clay�, and have created more problems, tragically outweighing the money saved by purchasing a quality car cleaning clay.



The cheap abrasive “filler� materials used in modeling clays and reusable adhesives can be damaging to paint finishes. Additionally, they are not specifically formulated for optimum performance as a quality car cleaning clay. This is why modeling clay and reusable adhesives are relatively cheaper. Cost comparatively, if purchasing modeling clay or reusable adhesive did work, it would only be a cost savings of less than $5 per year. The time and cost to repair or repaint a damaged paint finish obviously is much greater than $5, therefore the risk/reward factor is not favorable.



The process of manufacturing a quality car cleaning clay includes a selection of high quality ingredients and materials formulated to ensure proper function of the end use. Mothers and other quality car cleaning clays follow these guidelines to ensure quality and performance, let’s not forget that a vehicle is the second largest investment.

________________



Clint, if you have any questions, or need clarification, please PM me.



Forrest Tosie

Vice President, Sales

[email protected]
 
... but how does it damage the paint. when offering claying as an option to customers, i run through clay very quickly. savings over a one year period could be quite substantial.(if it works)
 
I do regret titling the thread 'Clay Scam' and tried to change the title, but I am not an administrator. As you will note in my later posts, I further tested the two substances and totally agree that mothers clay is not a scam and I will continue to use and purchase the product, as well as other fine mother's products. In fact I'm going out now to get some mother's wax.



If an admin could please change the title of this thread to something like 'clay experiment' I think we would all be much happier.



I know that the main reason clay for detailing is so costly is the difficulty in making a safe, liability free abrasive for the masses to use on the paint of cars.



It does seem that 'real' overspray clay is quite expensive, considering what it is. But the same could be said of glaze, polish, bottled water, cheese, what have you. As long as there are useful products that seem more expensive than they should be, there will be people trying to find an alternative to them..

It is difficult to believe that an 80g lump of putty with abrasive mixed in should really cost so much to produce that the retail price should be in the order of 15 dollars. To mother's credit, the mother's kit I bought was by far the best value I found between several stores and brands, with the closest competitors products costing several dollars more, and including less in the box (no teeny bottle of cleaner wax {which is actually quite good stuff}).



I do thank you very much for taking the time to provide some real insight into this discussion, rather than just looking at the photo I posted and saying 'duh- they are differnt cause the one in the pack that says handi tak says it's handi tak, not clay.'





Yes, mothers is good stuff that works as advertised and is not exactly the same thing as handi tak- handi tak lacks abrasives.



I hope the title of this thread can/will be changed by an admin to 'clay experiment'.



I will continue to use and recommend mothers clay as detailing clay.



I cannot resist adding that the mothers clay does a great job of sticking posters onto the wall.



As to handi-tak hurting the paint- no, it does not. I mashed and rubbed so hard my fender flexed in and it could not be made to cause even the faintest swirl. Just what you'd expect from a non -abrasive putty. By the same token, that's why the handi tak is a poor substitute for real clay.



Also note that this was done with my particular piece of handi tak- it could be that since superglue, the maker of the handi-tak, never figured anyone would be rubbing it on their paint, there is a chance that not as many precautions to keep foreign matter like harmful grit out of the vats or whatever were taken in the production and packaging of handi-tak. That is I think the only real danger.
 
Clint - thanks for the quick response. I appreciate your comments, and understand folks will experiment (which is why this forum is so useful for many folks).



My concern was with our company name and that other word together. I've spent too many years and more than a little amount of sweat helping to get us to where we are today. So, needless to say, I'm a little protective.



Thanks.
 
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