"car wax will ruin clearcoat"

T

The Enforcer

New member
say whaaaat? yep.......a friend of mine and i exchanged opinions on the whether or not car wax led to clearcoat problems. so how about everyone chime in here, and confirm that it is 100% safe to use wax and other silcones on newer car paint. his car is a 99 vette...and he has never waxed i until today because "wax will ruin paint."



lol



i understand that back in the day on the older laquer paints, it may have been a little different....but on today's paint it is 100% safe for wax. i mean, ***, thats what its made for, right? i am no expert on car paint at all....actually dont know much about it except for polishing and protecting...but doesnt today's paints even contain bits of silicone IN it!??
 
I detailed a C4 Corvette about 10 years ago and at first the guy was a bit hesitant about getting it waxed because the dealer told him "it has a clear coat, you don't need to wax it". After I polished and waxed it, he said he wanted to strangle the dealer because if he hadn't listened to that so-called advice, his car would have looked a lot better over the time he owned it.
 
The only time not to wax / apply sealant is on fresh paint that hasn't cured yet. Clear coat is just paint without pigment.
 
Waxing is encouraged, but not required, by the manufacturers as stated in many of the owner's manuals of many cars.



However, the act of removing defects by means of polishing, cleaning, or even claying is not condoned by many automotive manufacturers. Ford, for example, had issued a bulletin telling owners to never use a clay bar on their newer Ford vehicles. BMW advises owners to use ONLY approved BMW waxes and quick detailer spray waxes. None of their car care products has any cleaner or polishes in it.



Removing defects is simply removing paints to even out the scratches. Why would manufacturers want you to do that? In case there is clear coat failure on a vehicle under the warranty period, the entity responsible for paying for the damage is ultimately the manufacturer. One must understand the reasons for manufacturers to make these suggestions.



Logically speaking, the act of making the paint surface look "flawless" is indeed removing paint. And the act of removing paint is actualy inducing more flaws onto what was once an original finish. In essence, removing the appearances of flaws on paint surfaces can be seen as inducing more flaws onto the paint surface. You are only removing the appearances of the flaws; you are not magically filling it in. That is why the act of polishing or cleaning is not suggested by the manufacturers.



The more aggressive non-filling products produced by Menzerna are intended for OEM production lines and body repair purposes to correct paint defects created during the manufacturing or repairing processes. These products are simply adapted by the enthusiasts for paint corrections in the detailing markets.
 
I hate to do/say this, but some people need to become familiar with:



"Take it with a grain of salt".

also see

"Poison the well fallacy".



Some things are just so obviously absurd that my mind cannot comprehend why someone would actually create a thread on this. :bat

Seriously? :sadwavey:



Now let me go create a thread because my buddy told me that using body wash and soap makes my hair fall out. Not. Certain things are so ridiculous that they aren't worthy of even asking the question. :)
 
MichaelSpoots said:
Some things are just so obviously absurd that my mind cannot comprehend why someone would actually create a thread on this. :bat

Seriously? :sadwavey:



Now let me go create a thread because my buddy told me that using body wash and soap makes my hair fall out. Not. Certain things are so ridiculous that they aren't worthy of even asking the question. :)
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im not asking the question you moron, im just making this thread so everyone can back me up and indeed verify that using wax on your clearcoat is indeed safe. i know 100% that wax doesnt harm cleacoat....not today anyways. do you think that i dont know that wax is OK on clear coat? search my details.....im not an idiot. i only made this to convince a friend that it was OK to apply wax to his vette.



was it really worth your time posting that? did it make you feel better to try to make someone else feel dumb? because you didnt....all you did was reiterate the fact that there are e-thugs out there that say the craziest things just because they hide behind a computer screen in cyberspace. message boards that are out here to cater to a certain hobby and make the hobby better as a whole, such as this one, would be much better off without rude people like yourself. go find somewhere else to post if you can find ways to do it with a little courtesy here.
 
Your buddy is right if he keeps his car in a vacuum chamber. Just the act of waxing will add swirls and micro-marring. The solvents in the wax are probably harmful to the paint. However the wax acts as a sacrificial layer to stuff in the environment that is way worse than the act of waxing. Its similar to the vaccine debate, it the stuff great for you? No, but it stops you from some really nasty diseases.
 
waxing shouldnt add swirls if you are applying it to a properly prepped surface, with the correct pads.....unless its something with abrasives.....which would then make it more of a polish than a wax. correct?
 
The Enforcer said:
waxing shouldnt add swirls if you are applying it to a properly prepped surface, with the correct pads.....unless its something with abrasives.....which would then make it more of a polish than a wax. correct?
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Anytime you touch your paint, you put swirls on it. If you are carful, you won't be able to see them with your own eyes.





opt-comparison-1.jpg


"The leading car wax"



From:



Optimum Car Wax is a spray wax made with real carnauba and synthetic paint sealants for protection & shine! high-grade carnauba wax and silicone
 
@The Enforcer; Actually this mindset is still prevalent today. I noticed a similiar statement in Popular Mechanics a couple of weeks ago and I called them out on it. Ironically, they placed a response on their website advocating using a wax several weeks later.



"Yakky" explained it perfectly,"The solvents in the wax are probably harmful to the paint. However the wax acts as a sacrificial layer to stuff in the environment that is way worse than the act of waxing."
 
The Enforcer said:
thanks yakky and longdx.....those are probably the best ways i have seen it put!
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No worries. Just let him feel your freshly clayed, polished and waxed paint. Then have him feel his.
 
the_invisible said:
BMW advises owners to use ONLY approved BMW waxes and quick detailer spray waxes. None of their car care products has any cleaner or polishes in it.



Removing defects is simply removing paints to even out the scratches. Why would manufacturers want you to do that? In case there is clear coat failure on a vehicle under the warranty period, the entity responsible for paying for the damage is ultimately the manufacturer. One must understand the reasons for manufacturers to make these suggestions.
Click to expand...



Yet BMW will spot buff cars out of the paint booth, which not only removes paint but they do so horribly, I have to go behind them and remove more clear to remove the swirls. :wall
 
why do people say you have to wait for paint to cure before waxing? or washing? or sanding?



i have been working with body shops for decades, and each and every one washes, color sands/buffs and waxes the cars 1 day after painting. not saying they do the best job finishing, but even high end cars are handled the same. i have painted a few panels myself and seeing all the activator and infrared lights used to cure them, i dont see how waiting 2 months makes a difference?



and now in cali we have water borne paints that are way different than the older base coat/clear coat. i have been working with a painter recently and he's been showing me the new system and that paint is rock hard!
 
Scottwax said:
Yet BMW will spot buff cars out of the paint booth, which not only removes paint but they do so horribly, I have to go behind them and remove more clear to remove the swirls. :wall
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hehe I agree.



Besides if I somehow burn through the paint using my polishes, I would not ask BMW to warrant for my own defect.
 
advs1 said:
why do people say you have to wait for paint to cure before waxing? or washing? or sanding? ...
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Because every paint manufacturer says to wait (typically somewhere between 60 and 120 days) before waxing a newly sprayed finish.



Sanding, washing, compounding and polishing? People make that up because somebody misinterpreted the waxing thing and it grew from there. Paint manufacturers give you specific instructions on how you're supposed to do those in the first so many hours after spraying.





advs1 said:
...each and every one washes, color sands/buffs and waxes the cars 1 day after painting. ...
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There is no reason to wax a car in the paint shop. The rest of the stuff is part of the painting process.





advs1 said:
... seeing all the activator and infrared lights used to cure them, i dont see how waiting 2 months makes a difference? ...
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Ovens and IR panel heaters only knock the first few hours off of the curing cycle, enough time to get to sand, cut and buff right after spraying instead of waiting until the next day. Full cure still takes weeks.









pc
 
advs1 said:
why do people say you have to wait for paint to cure before waxing? or washing? or sanding?



i have been working with body shops for decades, and each and every one washes, color sands/buffs and waxes the cars 1 day after painting. not saying they do the best job finishing, but even high end cars are handled the same. i have painted a few panels myself and seeing all the activator and infrared lights used to cure them, i dont see how waiting 2 months makes a difference?



and now in cali we have water borne paints that are way different than the older base coat/clear coat. i have been working with a painter recently and he's been showing me the new system and that paint is rock hard!
Click to expand...



I agree. Would bodyshops hand the newly repaired cars back to the customers while the cars are covered in thick bodyshop dust? Probably not. Waxing, of course, is a different story. Solvent still needs to be able to scape, and wax hinders the evaporation process.



I have wetsanded and buffed new paint jobs literally 5hrs after they were flash baked with infrared or UV lights. No issue whatsoever. In fact, the paints were fairly hard then. Of course, being new paint jobs, I still opted for gentle methods for sanding marks removal by using a PFW and M105.



And you are correct, for environmental waste, energy saving, and health reasons, the bodyshop industry is slowly transitioning from using solvent based paints to water based paints. Solvent based paints is believe by the European Union agencies to be a source of skin and nasal cancer among autoworkers.

Water based paints cure much quicker. They can also finish much smoother in some cases than solvent based paint with skilled techniques. I am extremely impressed by some of the quality and durability of water based paints. They don't even smell as strong as solvent based paints.
 
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