Car wash

D

Digitalchaos

New member
Hello everyone. I have a black Thunderbird SC which I am interested in maintaining, and must use the car wash to do so. Recently I purchased terry cloth cotton towels for use at the car wash. I intended on wiping the car down while it is wet with carwash soap, to assist in removing debris which otherwise might stay there due to the nature of a touchless hand car wash. Does this sound like it might work, or would it simply cause pitting & swirls in the paint by wiping in road grime?



Also, I would like to know more on carwashes in general. Do the chemical cleaners & protectants damage the car in any way, or are they simply just not as effective as other solutions? I also avoid the brush type cleaning solutions found at some carwashes because I have read that they could be abrasive to paint & clearcoats.



Lastly, I have heard talk recently of new products called sealants available for use as a replacement for carwax.. which are apparently much better at protecting the car. Are these sealants simply synthetic waxes like Zaino & Nufinish, or are they different completley?



Thanks for your assistance!
 
Welcome to Autopia Digitalchaos. :welcome



I'm not exactly sure if you're planning on wiping it down before or after a touchless car wash, but I guess it would work as long as you don't apply too much pressure, rinse them out often, and the terry towels are of good (ie, bathroom) quality. Try running a search on cotton towels if you haven't done so already. Most people tend to wash with a mitt of some kind.



There's a fine, yet hazy, line between "regular" waxes and things that could be considered sealants. Zaino is definitely a sealant, but something like Nu Finish I'm not sure would qualify since it doesn't seem to last too long. It could be just a synthetic wax of some kind or maybe an older generation sealant with poor durability (not all sealants are alike and durability can vary). In a practical sense, consider sealants to have the same job as waxes. Some older threads in the Archives might do a better job of explaining the differences. Autopia tends to lump waxes into the "polymer sealant" or "carnauba" categories.
 
NuFinish is a sealant, I think, Brian. It is frowned upon because it has very harsh chemical cleaners. I think DetailKing had a thread a long time ago which shows the results of rubbing different sealants and waxes on a propeller which was painted black. BF I and NuFinish both removed lots of the paint.



Anyway, back to the regular programming.



:welcome Digitalchaos
 
Thanks for the greetings everyone! I have known about this forum & site for a while now, being refered to by members of the SCCOA.



I also posted a topic about NuFinish there, and one of the members stated it is a much older sealant with an abrasive nature. This abrasive nature is apparently due to a petroleum distilate base, and only allows one layer to be applied.



I am also wondering about products available at autoparts stores that I could use at a carwash perhaps as a quick replacement to their own prodcuts or to assist in cleaning. There are many available at Autozone, but I am not certain about which are the safest to use. I know some things contain alcohols, silicons, & petroleum which can cause damage to various surfaces. Also, are there any good safe products available from a store like this for interior/exterior rubber & vinyl protection?



Thanks for the info thus far!
 
What is to be expected of the waxes and other protectants at a carwash? I've heard some of them like the clearcoat protectant can actually strip regular paint..



Also, what do the 'tire & engine' degreasers at the washes consist of? I have used these green solutions before on both tires & engine compartments. It makes quick work of cleaning a dirty engine, but I assume there is a definate risk of using this product.. especially when they say rinse immediatly with soap & avoid painted areas.



Thanks again..
 
:welcome Digitalchaos. :wavey Sounds like you have some pretty basic questions. Have you read the Autopia Guide to Detailing? Go to the home page, look in the Features box (upper left box), and click on Downloads. You'll see lots of folks here recommending, "Buy the eBook!" and that's what we're talking about. It will give you tips about washing, as well as clear discussion of waxes vs. sealants, and a whole chapter on engine degreasing. "And more -- much more!" :up



Just curious: Why are you consigned to the DIY car wash bays only?
 
This is essentially my problem. I have read the guides to products good for home use, but many of these products have little use to me because I must use the carwash. I do not have facilities to wash my car by hand with my own equipment.



Thats basically why I am interested in quick products which will improve my results at a car wash bay, and in any negative consequences the chemicals already at a car wash pose to my cars finish.



I have researched some of the chemicals used at carwashes and their properties in reacting with various substances namely car surfaces, but most of this information came from places supporting public car wash facilities.
 
Lynn said:
:welcome Digitalchaos. :wavey Sounds like you have some pretty basic questions. Have you read the Autopia Guide to Detailing? Go to the home page, look in the Features box (upper left box), and click on Downloads. You'll see lots of folks here recommending, "Buy the eBook!" and that's what we're talking about. It will give you tips about washing, as well as clear discussion of waxes vs. sealants, and a whole chapter on engine degreasing. "And more -- much more!" :up
Click to expand...



Warning: I'm feeling crotchety tonight.



Do this search and you'll find some threads that have addressed exactly your question in considerable detail.



Once you do some basic reading/homework, you'll find the Autopians can give you lots of detailed, well-targeted advice.



"The search engine is my friend. The search engine is my friend."
 
Ok I've read the information in that search and others pertaining to my situation & I believe the question I have is this..



Is there a product or solution I can apply to my vehicle, without a bucket, by spraying or similar method that will work better than the washbay's soap solution? The only thing I can come up with short of applying a wash soap directly to my terry towels in full concentration & then applying to paint is a quick detail.. but I don't know how well that will clean anything.



I was originally intending to saturate it with the washbay's soap then rub it with the towel to remove dirt/debris coating that rinsing the soap never does.



I really would like the car to be much cleaner than the normal multi-step washbay process.. & I hope to at least get the car clean enough so it is safe to use a wax or at least a quick wax. That way the paint/clearcoat is protected and the car has a semi-nice appearance.



I would like to try some of the methods mentioned in those threads about bringing all of my own supplies & washing it conventionally, but the washbays have attendents that most definatley would not allow this.



Thanks again for your help & information; it really is appreciated!
 
Mother's sells a product called Trigger Wash that I think would work well for you.



Wet down the car, spray on the wash, wipe with a mitt or sponge, and rinse off. Basically its like bucket washing in a spray bottle.



I bucket washed my cars in those coin op joints for almost 10 years and never had a problem. If the washes you are going to are attended, maybe a polite conversation with the owner will get you some slack. I always went when the wash bays were not busy and was able to do whatever I wanted as long as I kept pumping quarters into their machines.



I would not use their soap unless I was absolutely, positively, 100% desperate. Most of those soaps are highly alkaline and designed to cut thru all kinds of gunk and grime. It'll strip your wax faster than you can think about it.



I don't think the "wax" that comes out of the spray wands will strip paint. Sounds like some old wive's tale mixed in with paranoia. If those products did serious damage to paint, a lawsuit from a customer would put them out of business within days. Even if someone sprayed the engine cleaner on their paint, it shouldn't cause permanent damage.



I see no reason why you cannot simply bring all your favorite products to the car wash and just use the high pressure wands to rinse. If a car wash operator says to you, "no bucket washing", find another car wash.



Good luck. Let us know what you end up doing.



And Welcome to Autopia :wavey
 
:idea



Can you even bring a bucket of water out to your car, WITHOUT any hose or way to rinse?



If so, you'll want to find out about this great product discovered by Scottwax: Protect All Quick and Easy Wash (QEW for short sometimes). I use this sometimes and it was quite handy in the winter. It has lots of advantages actually, except for the fact that you can't hose out your undercarriage or wheelwells and it's not as good for really heavy dirt. I just use one bucket (like Scott) with 1 gal of solution, a mitt, and a couple high quality towels. :up



Run a search for "quick easy wash" but check off the Search Titles Only button and you should find a small handful of good reading. HTH
 
Yeah, definitely check into QEW . . . IMO, it's a must-have for those with limited access to a hose.



I live in an apartment about 1/2 block from a spray bay coin-op wash; what I often do is spray the majority of loose dirt/bugs off using the spray bay rinse, then drive back to my apt. and use QEW in the driveway there.



Tort
 
Digitalchaos, I'm glad to hear you read some of those threads. Folks here have had many and varied experiences. Lots of us without garages have had to endure the DIY carwashes -- especially in winter. Lots of us go to these places in off-hours (Sunday evening, late weeknights), when they don't have other customers and are willing to let us do bucket-washes. Just a thought.
 
Ok everyone this is what I did.



As I already washed the car Tuesday evening, I looked for a product that would clean the car w/o rewashing. I was unable to find Mother's Trigger wash, & instead found Meguiars Deep Crystal system Paint Cleaner; step 1 of a 3 step process. I compared this with Meguiars cleaning Carauba wax, and decided to get the paint cleaner instead. Since my paint is not visually oxidized, I did not get the polish. I also did not get the wax as I intended on a quick wax product. For this, I was going to get Meguiars Quick Wax, but instead decided to give Rainx fast wax a try instead after seeing feedback from several people.



After washing the car on Tuesday, there was a definate oily road film left on the surface of the paint, painted plastic bumper covers, and ground effects. There was also still slight dirt splash near the bottom, and worn down insect residue on the hood. I applied the Paint Cleaner with a terry cotton towel & used another to remove the product one section at a time according to instruction. This removed all surface contaminants except for slight industrial fallout. It also removed many of clearcoat micro swirls that were visible in the artificial light, much as it said it would. These were not visible in daylight, but at the right angle in artificial light, they could be compared in fineness to a DVD. The product took minimal effort to apply & remove, areas with excess film(roof) took a little more effort to remove it.



After finishing with the product, it left a noticeabe deep shine in the dim artificial light, and was completley clean without any leftover dirt film. Being a product which can be applied to a dry car (after carwash to remove main debris), this product ended up serving the purpose I needed very well. A wax was not required afterwards to improve appearance do to the gloss already present, but;



I then applied the RainX fastwax (blue bottle, not black one) petroleum solvant based wax. I first note that this product had a very nice smell, that of coconuts. For being petroleum based, it did not at all appear or smell harsh. I sprayed it on sparingly, spread it with terry cotton towel, and then removed with another terry cotton according to instructions. This product had no compatibility problems with the Meguiars product, and furthered the already present shine. I was able to easily see my reflection on the paint from a distance in near darkness, and a bottle I temporarily had to set on the trunk lid actually went to slide off, but I stopped it. I have yet to see the results of this waxes protection properties & anti rain mechanism, but from what I can tell so far it should work well.



So basically, I think a good job of detailing can be done by washing the car at the bay using their soaps (assuming they aren't harmful), cleaning the remaining debris with a product like Meguiar's paint cleaner, and then rewaxing either with quickwax or regular wax. At least in my case, the paint was perfectly clean. In my case, it also probably could have benefited from being clayed.



The results appear excellent, and I shall see them in daylight tomorrow. Thanks for all of the excellent help with my first post everyone, I can see I will benefit more from this forum in the future!
 
:wall ARRRGH! Stupid product names.... grr... [gets out straightjacket] :wall



I'm glad you're pleased with your results, but I have to set a few things right:



The Meguiar's Step 1 "cleaner" as well as the "cleaner" wax are absolutely NOT meant to clean off dirt, grime, film, oil, etc off the paint the way a car shampoo is. Doing so will only rub this dirt into the finish and cause damage. Hopefully you've gotten lucky. The "cleaning" they do is mainly abrasive cleaning. It's very mild, but that's what it does. It's actually the "polish" that you were thinking Step 2 is supposed to be.



On top of this confusing name of "cleaner", the Step 2 "Polish" is non-abrasive and would not do much to oxidation. Step 2 is a GLAZE, which just makes the paint glossier and hides minor defects after proper polishing with a mild abrasive (ie, Step 1). You have no idea how many times the names of these things have fooled people into thinking they way you have. Argh!!! :wall



In the future, please please wash or at least QD your car prior to using any of these products. Car shampoo and QD are meant to handle dirt, thick liquid "cleaners" that come in squirt bottles and need to be shaken are not. Clay is totally separate from either soaps or QDs, as well as abrasive cleaners. It has the job of getting rid of the grittiness on your paint that doesn't come off with washing (and you shouldn't try to remove them with polish).



Whew! Now that I have that off my chest, the only thing I'd like to add is that while there is nothing wrong with waxing with quick, spray on waxes, they usually do not last very long by themselves and are meant more for "touching up" an existing proper wax coat. Generally for most over the counter waxes look at it this way: Pastes last longest, liquids less, and sprays even less.



Hope that helps, and excuse me while I take 5.... :p
 
Oh don't worry, I washed it at the car wash before I did this.. lol! really there wasn't any debris on the paint at all, it just simply looked a little dull. I could wipe a finger across it and my finger would stay clean, just that it did have a little "haze" from what the car wash did not get. The back label of both Meguiars products that I considered mentioned cleaning various debris off of the paint. Specifically I believe the cleaner wax mentioned cleaning road grime, tar, bugs, & similar debris while the Deep Crystal paint cleaner that I bought mentions brightening dull paint by removing oxidation, light scratches, and swirls.



I chose the second because that is essentially what I had, dull paint. The product removed easily from my car leaving no dirt on the white terry towel which I used to remove it, and appeared to work well.



As I said the car was pretty much clean when I did this, just that there is always some dulling of the finish that even a good car soap & mf towel doesn't seem to remove.



I intend to repeat this process on my black Jeep later on after washing it @ the wash bay.. still think its a bad idea?



Thanks!
 
Oh, good.... because from the sound of your other post it seemed much worse. :) I have a (newer) bottle of the Megs cleaner wax too and I guess they must've smartened up a bit and now emphasize the product's swirl removing ability rather than its "cleaning".



For dullness, oxidation, swirls, and "stains" that don't come off with soaps, tar removers, etc. polishing is usually the thing to do so you sound okay there. :up



If the car gets dusty or picks up dirt in between the wash bay and your residence I'd suggest wiping down the car with some QD and a MF towel. QDing is for when the car has some light dust, waterspots, etc. but it's not bad enough to bother washing.



Good luck with the Jeep!
 
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