Car Show Judges......

I

imported_Luster1

New member
A buddy and I both entered our cars in the '95 and newer modified class at the "Good Time Oldies" car show last weekend.



My concern is not about the judging itself, because they were very thorough and we could tell they had done this many times before.



My complaint about their judging was that THEY TOUCHED THE CARS! At one point, one of the judges was LEANING on my fender!



I was furious! Then they went next door to my friend's car and opened the door and started messing with the interior. They even lifted the console cover!



That's going too far. They shouldn't touch the cars.



The judging was done on 4 areas at 25 points each. He got 100 pts, I got 99.



The 4 judged areas were:



1. Exterior

2. Interior

3. Engine bay

4. Wheels, tires, undercarriage



All that was fine and good, but does anyone agree that judges shouldn't touch the cars?



Maybe I'm the one who's wrong.



(BTW, we took first and second!):xyxthumbs
 
Luster,



Don't feel bad. I particpated in the 16th Annual Internation Z convention in NH last week. It was a pure concours de elegance show. After the initial judging, my car was rejudged for the gold medallion/cup judging. I observed one of the judges leaning over my car with a lite cigar dropping ashes into the engine bay.



Needless to say I was disgusted over the whole event. So much for "concours de elegance".
 
Pats300zx said:
I observed one of the judges leaning over my car with a lite cigar dropping ashes into the engine bay.
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It's bad enough that you have to watch for kids whose parents let them run out of control, but JUDGES should be the example-setters.
 
Judges have allways asked me to open the doors, bonnet etc, surely they must have to do the finger in the wheel arch test?
 
RichPug306xsi said:
Judges have allways asked me to open the doors, bonnet etc, surely they must have to do the finger in the wheel arch test?
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And I have always been very compliant of that test. Even the "finger behind the wheel spoke" test is no problem at all.



But leaning his fat a** against the car while he fills in his score sheet???? No way.:nono
 
I've judged several shows and sicne I also detail cars I NEVER lean up against ANY car. i DO touch the car to feel the paint. the other judges normally dont know what I'm doing but that's the ONLY reason I toch the car is to gauge how smooth the paint feels if they have taken the time to wax it before a show or just wash it.
 
I'm a Porsche Club Concours Judge.....some of the golden rules:



1. Never open anything...get the owner to do that



2. Never sit in the car



3. Remove belt buckles, rings etc



You obviously need to "touch" the car to check for dirt and dust, particularly in the engine, door jams, locks, under dash etc
 
Jag club rules specifically forbid judges from touching the cars for any purpose -- can't even open the doors themselves. I view it as a sign of respect. And when I open the doors for them, I use a MF to touch the door handle. I'm with you, Luster; I would have been incensed!
 
Lynn said:
Jag club rules specifically forbid judges from touching the cars for any purpose .....
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So how do they check for dust and dirt?



In PCA we dread the lady judges...they have small fingers that can fit in tiny spaces. We also dread the engine judge with long arms!



As a judge when I find dirt I normally wipe my finger on the contestants score sheet next to the section being judged. That way the contestant can clearly see what they are being deducted for.
 
Jeepers - it's not only judges who should know better... I went along to my first Jaguar Club meeting a month or two back - a new model intro at the dealer's showroom - and observed several members LEANING against a new XK8 and an XJ while they listened to the speaker.



Common courtesy prevented me from waving my arms at them - which I would have done (and more) if they had been leaning against any of my cars.



How do you stop people doing this? Without losing friends or making enemies? Is there a polite way?



I had occasion to move the friend of a buyer of one of my cars a while back. He leant against my Daimler and I gave him a quick wave away, explaining the paint was new.



He didn't realise he was doing it (duh!) - it was an automatic move.



I thought it might jeopardize the sale, but fortunately it didn't.



Ken Silver

--------------

1993 Mercedes SL500, 1991 Daimler (Vanden Plas), 1992 Miata MX5. Finish detailng, then start all over again...
 
:wavey



Luster,



Did you not say anything to the offending judge for fear of receiving points against you? Could it and do these car shows work that way? :shocked



Could it be, that some people have no clue how labor intensive the perfect shine is to attain and how fragile it is?:nono



I would have come unglued:grrr
 
Back in the day "concours de elegance" judges wore white cloves and would ask an owner to open doors, bonnet etc.



I attended a car show in TN and a judge was wearing a huge belt buckle and reaching over the fender to look at an engine compartment. It wasn't mine so I offered him a MF towel to cover the buckle with. He had no idea what he was doing to the paintwork.





Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/



justadumbarchitect
 
I just joined after purchasing a Autopia Diamond account. I have been detailing cars since 1970 and have been a Concours judge for 10 years. First rule they teach judges is not to handle any part of the owners automobile, not to lean or sit in the car and to ask the owner to politly open the hood doors and trunk for inspection. I can tell by your experience that these guys who judged your car were new and should not have been leaning on your fener and insulted their job duties in such a sloppy manner.



I can tell you I take pride in judging cars and treat every owner I meet with undue repect and enthusiem. You got out of bed early that morning to bring your car so lets make it a good day for you and everyone out there who is showing up with an automobile.



Sincerely

Bob Geco

Bob Geco's Auto Appearance Care

Los Angeles, CA:up
 
I am afraid those judges are a 'sign of the times'.



People do not take the time to learn how to do a job correctly. It is all about 'do it now', get it now, do it half a**, just do it and move on to the next .......



I think it is time for my medication.......
 
Well as a Porsche Concours Judge I must 100% agree with the comments about belt buckles etc and leaning on fenders. Also judges should not open anything (let the owners do this) and should not sit in the car (or on the sill) while judging.



But this whole notion of "do not touch the car" is a bit much. If the cars were just visually inspected at the events I compete at, you would have 3-4 cars always tying for first place with perfect scores.



Of the 26 deductions I received in 8 events this year, 14 were visual (seen) and 12 were found by the hand. (ie dust deep inside a lock, dust under a wiring loom in the engine bay etc).



Just my 0.02c worth.
 
I agree formost do not touch the owner or partisapaiant's automobile. What comes off in your hand is yours to buy !!! I have always used a small flashlight to inspect areas I could not get too Yes I guess the white glove treatment is ok as long as you are carefull, but I see no reason unless it is a tie breaker to even go there.

At one time while judgeing two mustangs We needed to pull the gas cap and oil dip sticks to see which one was cleaner. The real question is which car is more costly to restore and worth more on the collector market a 1966 Mustang GT Converibler or a 1966 Shelby Mustang?

Bob Geco
 
krwaxbz said:
The real question is which car is more costly to restore and worth more on the collector market a 1966 Mustang GT Converibler or a 1966 Shelby Mustang?

Bob Geco
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but my gut reaction is :scared WHAT?? You're going to award scores based on market value and/or on which costs more to restore -- not which car has been more carefully prepped for the show??? :( No wonder I'm contemplating retirement from the Concours circuit.
 
Normally this is not the case at the car shows I attend. They usually mention if doors need to be opened, hood and trunk area opened, windows up/down, etc. There's no need to touch to observe cleanliness. If they are looking for originally there might have to be minor exceptions to see part numbers, etc.



I would be furious also if this was not CLEARLY STATED AND UNDERSTOOD PRIOR TO YOUR ENTRY.



I would say something to the organizers either in person or via writing.
 
JJU said:
..... There's no need to touch to observe cleanliness. ....
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Well how about dirt in the cracks of the seat?



How about dirt right under the seat?



How about great gobs of dirty grease inside a door lock?



How about the film of dirt on the door sill? (You think its clean, it looks clean, you did in fact clean it, but trust me, drive a couple of miles, its now dirty)



What about dirt deep inside a door jam?



What about brake dust in the lug nut on the alloys? (looks clean....its aint guaranteed)



Whats about the inside of the alloys?



What about dirt behind the number plate? (Can't see it, but again I gaurantee its there)



What about dirt under the door handle?



What dust/dirt under the dash?



What about dirt behind the pedals?



What about dirt on the seat belts? Have to pull these out fully to see?



What about dirt behind the rollbars on a Boxster?



What about dirt trapped in a door rubber seal?



What about dirt in the windscreen vents?



And what about the 10 billion places in the engine you can't see?? The under side of every hose, wiring loom etc etc.





At Porsche Concours events we check in all these areas (yes with hands :shocked ) and in more places. Frankly its pretty easy to prep a car that looks clean. :nixweiss
 
JB:

You have ligimate question. there is a difference between fresh accumilation of dirt on driven automobiles to a Concours and that has to be excused. the real question is presenation and preperation if the chassie & inside of the wheels are dirty I deduct on the score sheet with a note per my deductions for the head judge.



If someone is too lazy to clean there car the day before and have me look at it I will certainly not Honor it as I would an Automobile that someone has spend countless hours preping for the show. That is why you do a walk around your class to idenify the real potenial contenders , the rest are just fill.



KRWAXBZ
 
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