Can't get rid of holograms! So frustrated!

1

1vh1

New member
I spent 5 hours today polishing my car (2006 Pontiac GTO). I got rid of all the swirls, it looks great on that front, but in the wrong light it has the same ugly holograms all over. I used new LC pads and microfiber just to combat this. I am so mad I had to make an account to see if you all had any ideas on how to correct this.



I did this:

Wash with conc. CG citrus wash.

Clay with FK425

Polish with M105 on an Orange LC pad

Polish with M205 on an Orange LC pad

Polish with SRP on a Red LC pad

Top with PB Nattys blue

Top with FK1000p



I really hope someone can help me out.
 
Try a yellow LC pad :) It's more aggressive than orange. Or try a microfiber pad.



105 can cut through just about anything.
 
Are you using a rotary polisher I presume??



If so, orange with M205 is bound to be your problem. Ditch the SRP if you're wanting a permanant solution for your work as well. Try stepping down your pad to a finishing pad and/or use a DA to finish with M205.
 
Is it possible that the holograms you are seeing is in your wax and not the paint? I have found that when I first remove a wax or sealant I will sometimes see slight holograms in direct sunlight on dark colors. When I wipe them at a 90* angle the lines will change to match the direction of the wipe. Once I wait a few hours for it to cure completely the lines stop appearing. I believe this is usually due to temp/humidity conditions. The fibers of even the softest towel can create uneven pressure, relative to the thickness of the fibers.
 
I have an 06 GTO and have detailed 3 or 4 others. They have soft paint and that is probably the issue you are having. For my last polish on my car (light swirls, minor deeper marring) I used HD Polish on a LC white pad to take care of everything. Some of the deeper spots needed a few extra passes, but nothing major. I used to use Optimum Polish on a LC orange pad to remove swirls on cars that were in rougher shape than mine. I have never needed anything beyond a finishing polish to knock out defects in GTO paint. These polishes were with a PC.



I have used a rotary on GTOs as well and my go-to there was 106FF on a white pad, 1200 rpm or so. That would knock everything out and finish LSP ready.



My course of action on your car, assuming PC usage, would be a white pad with 205 (which I haven't used before); I know the cut is similar to the polishes I have used.
 
Some sorta-random thoughts follow:



-Yeah, if this is via rotary...not many have the skill to finish out 100% hologram-free with a rotary, let alone with M205, let alone on a problematic paint.



-M105 can leave hologram-like artifacts from its buff-off, and those can be so severe that M205 can be hard-pressed to completely remove them. Probably not the case here as the M205/orange pad oughta be enough.



-M205 doesn't always finish out to my satisfaction, and I doubt I'd *ever* be satisfied with how it finishes out with a LC orange (not even on silver or white). I'd want another step (or two) between the M205/orange and the SRP.



-M205 can leave *SO* many Trade Secret Oils ("TSO") behind that it can look like holograms. IME IPA isn't nearly potent enough to fully remove those oils from "sticky" paints, not even close no matter how many times you use it.



-SRP (which I really, *really*, like) won't clean off the TSO or even lighter oils from other polishes. SRP *will* do come concealing, so anything that shows after SRP (in this case the holgrams) must be kinda severe.



-Note that if you achieve a really, *really* nice finish, then much as I like SRP I would *NOT* use it as it can diminish the gloss that certain finishing polishes (not M205 IME) leave.



-Isn't Natty's Blue a "wax" as opposed to a "sealant" (scare-quotes intentional owing to category overlap)? If there are issues between the Natty's and the FK1000P, that can look like holograms. FK1000P isn't *that* finicky about what it bonds to, but I don't use it over other Last Step Products ("LSP", i.e., waxes or sealants). Over SRP is OK though, I've used/liked that combo.



-Not likely to be the case here, but when things otherwise (i.e., besides that bonding issue) go haywire with FK1000P applications it can result in "pseduo-holograms" that are quite similar to the ones from M105/M205 listed above.



Welcome to Autopia, 1vh1 :wavey



Hope we can help you get to the bottom of the problem. You might oughta improve your inspection lighting so you can spot issues like this before the whole car ends up that way :think:
 
I would start with what 9th Degree suggest. Allow the final wax/sealant to really cure out. If in doubt, put a fresh soft pad on a DA, and put down a fresh micro fiber towel, place the DA on it and at the slowest speed possible, remove the "cured" final product.
 
David Fermani said:
Are you using a rotary polisher I presume??



If so, orange with M205 is bound to be your problem. Ditch the SRP if you're wanting a permanant solution for your work as well. Try stepping down your pad to a finishing pad and/or use a DA to finish with M205.
Click to expand...



That is the first thing we need to know. Often times users are using a DA and they don't realize what they are seeing is micro marring or DA haze and not holograms.



If you are using a rotary now, following a DA would be your best bet. If you're using a DA already then I would agree with David in using a less aggressive pad with M205, or a final polish that utilizes diminishing abrasives, like Menzerna SF4000....in my experience paints that are prone to DA haze or micro marring tend to finish better with DAT polishes.
 
Woah guys, a lot of respones. Thank you for taking the time to try to help me!



I'll try to address some of the repeat suggestions.



First, I'm using a PC747X(?) I forget the exact code, but it is a dual action polisher.



I was using CCS line pads for clarification.



I went out and wiped down the car with some 425 and probably 70% of the holograms "shifted" to the way I wiped them. I am guessing these are those bonding issues you guys suggested. The other 30% are most likely from using the wrong pad/polish combo. I guess I will have to start from step one to get rid of those. What can I do to get rid those bonding holograms though? They were stubborn to my FK425 and cobra microfibre.



I really like the look of the Natty's blue paste "wax" on my blue metallic paint. It makes the flake pop like none of the other waxes/ sealants I have (1000p, Autogylm HD, SRP.) I just don't like how it sheets. I can't "dust" the car by sheeting water on it. That's why I topped it with 1000p that stuff sheets like crazy.
 
That's why its best to not worry about topping, layering or anything like that. Just find and LSP you like and use it as often as you need to. Sounds like you've got multiple layers of LSPs trying unsuccessfully to bond to one another.



Polish the car, rewash and check in the full sun. If you used #205, let it sit in the sun for about 30 minutes. Any oils missed by washing will flash off. Then put on ONE wax or sealant and the nothing else again until you do a proper wash.
 
1vh1 said:
First, I'm using a PC747X(?) I forget the exact code, but it is a dual action polisher..I went out and wiped down the car with some 425 and probably 70% of the holograms "shifted" to the way I wiped them. I am guessing these are those bonding issues you guys suggested. The other 30% are most likely from using the wrong pad/polish combo..
Click to expand...



Ah, that clarifies things quite a bit.



I was using CCS line pads for clarification...
Click to expand...



Are those the (boo hiss) "dimpled" pads?



I guess I will have to start from step one to get rid of [the issues that aren't just LSP/oils related]...
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Maybe, but probably "not quite". I wouldn't go all the way back to the M105/orange, but rather M105 on a milder polishing pad. And be *especially* careful/gentle about two things: 1) keep the pads (plural ;) ) *VERY* clean, no clumps of product or buildup of cut-off paint...clean 'em way more often than you think you oughta, and also 2) spritz some "clean" QD like Meguiar's M34 (*NO* don't use a leaves-stuff-behind QD like FK425!) on before you buff off the M105 residue and still be as gentle as possible while buffing it off. Remember that the M15 will *always* cut; it doesn't break down, it doesn't go away, it just sits there waiting to cut the paint some more...like when you buff it off.



Then do the M205/orange and follow up with something even milder. But stick with the M205/orange until all the issues are gone.



AND, find some way to remove all those TSOs that the M205 leaves behind. I use TOL/Hi-Temp's Akra Clean (AKA PrepWash). As I posted before, I find IPA to be pretty lousy for this, so whatever you do expect to work at it a bit. This is the big reason why I no longer like/recommend M205, it's just such a PIA!



What can I do to get rid those bonding holograms though? They were stubborn to my FK425 and cobra microfibre.
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The real solution is to eliminate the bonding problems. Get rid of those TSOs after you've finished with the M205 to provide a "clean" surface and to take them out of the equation. If you want to do the SRP, that oughta be OK and shouldn't contribute to any problems. Then, if you want to use both FK1000P and something else, use the FK first and let it cure for a while before you top it. Yeah, I know...(anticipating Ron Ketcham's input ;) ) you're not supposed to *need* to let it cure for long, but it always seems to head off problems for me. As long as there are bonding issues, well....you're gonna have appearance issues too ;) So don't try to top the Natty's with the FK...you've already learned that approach doesn't work for you.



I really like the look of the Natty's blue paste "wax" on my blue metallic paint. It makes the flake pop like none of the other waxes/ sealants I have (1000p, Autogylm HD, SRP.) I just don't like how it sheets. I can't "dust" the car by sheeting water on it. That's why I topped it with 1000p that stuff sheets like crazy.
Click to expand...



The final look oughta be mostly a matter of whatever you use last, so you'll "see" the Natty's if you use that last. But this "sheeting" thing throws a whole 'nother factor into the mix :think: I think I'd try to find a leaves-stuff-behind QD or (much better) a spray wax that a) doesn't mess with the look you like and b) behaves the way you want with regard to the sheeting.



EDIT: Oh, and be a little careful about using FK425. Yeah, I really *REALLY* like it, but sometimes it has messed up my LSP, giving those same "pseudo-holograms". Had it happen when I used FK425 over top of Collinite..made a royal mess out of the dark blue Audi (back when it still belonged to its original owner).
 
Scottwax said:
Polish the car, rewash and check in the full sun. If you used #205, let it sit in the sun for about 30 minutes..
Click to expand...



Wish the Ohio sun worked as well for that as the sun down in Texas :chuckle:



When I had that problematic M3, no amount of summer sun (here in Ohio) would flash off the M205's oils :( Really made me appreciate the diff between "up here" and "down there"!
 
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