Can swirls really be completely removed?

B

bcwang

New member
Now I thought swirl marks are those major crazy marks that I see on people's car when the sun hits it causing a lot of obvious scratch looking circles, which you cannot see on my dark red car. But on my car, if you can angle it right and get close enough, then you can make out microscratches, which more or less all are in the same direction. I do all my washing and waxing in back and forth motions so that's what's keeping it from the massive swirls that other people have.



So my question is, when you guys speak of removing swirl marks, does that also mean the microscratches? So is it possible that by polishing it with a polish, the sealing it with a glaze, then topping with wax, it is possible to have a perfectly smooth surface with not a single microscratch to be found in any direction under any light no matter how hard you look? Or does swirl removal just mean the blatantly obvious swirls you see that look terrible, and that at the end the paint will always have microscratches because of rubbing to apply and remove wax, though if done correctly will be hard to find because they are all in the same direction?



By the way, I have a turtlewax microfiber (70% polyester, 30%polyamide) and it scratches a cd if I rub it back and forth a couple of times with some force. It's very light scratches, but if you look for it hard enough under the light you can see it. Is this normal, or should a microfiber towel absolutely not be able to scratch a CD no matter how long you rub it or how hard (reasonable of course) you rub it?



Thanks!
 
Maybe it's impossible? Since to remove swirls requires rubbing with a towel of some sort, which then induces scratches on the finish again. Sounds like an impossible situation since you need to rub polish to get rid of swirls, yet the rubbing itself probably produces scratches.
 
It is possible to remove a great deal, I would say 95%, of the scratches and fine spider webbing BUT they can be easily re-introduced into the finish by just driving the car!



Some of my customers are notorius for complaining about scratches in their cars appearing a few days after I have detailed them. Did I remove the scratches the first time or just hide them?



Well I pride myself in trying to remove as many of the fine scratches as possible and hate using any product for covering or hiding them but it is difficult when it is the very client, who complains about the scratches, that also puts them in the paint!!



I finished a detail the other day and the doctor comes out looks over his car and is well pleased, asks how much he owes me and then sets down his soda can on his scratch free, highly polsihed trunk and also uses it as a platform to write out the check! I cringed but would could I say?



Trying to eradicate your paint from any and all scratches is futile and unless you saran wrap it after it is detailed they will just return. Don't become so anal that you, like me, begin to spend up to 2 hours on the hood of a Porsche because there is "just one more to remove". This may then take out all the joy of detailing for you. For me it is chasing an obsession, a compulsive disorder, illness if you like, that I am always thinking, "Well, the last car looked pretty good but I bet I can make this one look even better"



As for the MF question. Yes just about every MF will scratch to some degree depending on the pressure applied. I have and use the Turtle Wax MF's and for the most part I am well pleased with thier performance. Just remember to allow the towel to do the work, no need to apply alot of pressure to the paint when drying, QD'ing or waxing. Constantly dust or blow off the area you are working on and shake out your towel often. Replace the towel after a all sides have been used and once a towel is dropped it goes into my "dirty" bag.



Phew.....that was long winded.

Anthony
 
Anthony-I also have customers who use their trunk lid, roof, etc to write out checks and I alway let them know that will cause scratches. They always seem very suprised, so I explain to them that clearcoats can easily be scratched and they shouldn't place anything on their paint.



Today I had a BMW X5 and Mercedes S500 to wash and when I got there, it was obvious the last time it rained, one of his kids rubbed their hands all over the trunk lid because all the pollen, sap and dust on the trunk lid looked like a finger painting! Anyway, when I washed it, just like I expected, it had massive scratches all over it. Took me a good 20 minutes to get about 95% of them out-the other 5% are just too deep. Oh well. In any event, the improvement was dramatic. I took pics, but it is a new roll, so it will be a week or two before I can post them. Don't know how well the scratches will show, but you can see the dullness in the shine from them.



To answer bcwang's question...it depends. Most buffer induced swirls can be removed. Swirls under the paint obviously cannot. Sometimes the car maker's primer does not completely fill in any sanding marks on the car's body, so the only way to fix those would be to completely strip the car, sand the body until it is scratch free, then repaint it.



Anthony is right, no matter how careful you are, you will end up introducing new swirls, scratches, etc to the paint. It is up to you what is acceptable and what it not and needs to be corrected. I have a couple of light scratches on my car that can only be seen under certain lighting conditions, so until I have time to really get after them, I can live with 'em.
 
So what I'm hearing is that it certainly is possible to get it to be completely scratch free, even though they will come back from just driving it. I've just got to try it to see what it looks like then.



So I see lots of polish have instructions to rub in circular motions, is that the right way to work with these products to remove scratches? I've always avoided circular motions when waxing to avoid obvious swirls, but with the right applicator is the circular motion ok?
 
As long as you use clean foam pads, you should be okay. If you pick up any debris on the pad though, it can scratch.
 
Scott,



I can fully understand the whole tree sap, pollen and kids ordeal. It is not raining here right now but the last two days "looked" as if it was going to rain and that made my clients gun shy. Weather man now says that tomorrow is going to be the big rain maker......we'll see.



As for the scratches, I have told a few customers that placing their checkbooks, coffee cups, soda cans and purses (women are notorius for placing their purses on the trunk or roof) can and will scratch the delicate surface of their paint. The point I was trying to get across, and after re-reading my post I totally missed it, was that it's their car and their money and sure you and I can warn them but thats about it.



Here is another no-brainer that really makes my skin crawl. Have you ever had the client or potential customer that approaches you and asks your opinion about something either on or about their paint and then proceed to remove the top layer of dust on their car with their hand and you can just see the scratches being put into the paint?? Man that chaps my hide.



How is your weather today? I watched the weather last night and they said that north Texas would see some storms today and I said to my wife....."Well Scott has a day off" Her reply was, "Who is Scott?" I looked at her like, "duh" Scott from Autopia.



:) Anthony
 
Here is another no-brainer that really makes my skin crawl. Have you ever had the client or potential customer that approaches you and asks your opinion about something either on or about their paint and then proceed to remove the top layer of dust on their car with their hand and you can just see the scratches being put into the paint?? Man that chaps my hide.



Anthony , if you think thats bad. I decided to check out one of my competitors who has been bad mouthing every detailer in the area , he's out of my area so I really only heard of him and he's never meet me , so I figured I go up with my truck and play like a customer and see what was up with these guys. My truck has three coats of Zaino on it and I had not washed in that week , I aksed for a price and one of the guys came out and the first thing he does is take his hand across my paint , then proceeds to wipe up the dust with a red shop towel!:shocked After he gives me the run around and a price I hand him my card and thank him. He looked stunned and couldn't figure out why I thanked him , I would have loved to tell him for being so stupid but hey I had to be professional.:D
 
detail,



Ya know there seems to be these "hacks" in every area. I have a guy out here that threatened another detailer friend of mine that if he ever came back out to his "turf" he would be sorry.



I could not believe that some guy would stoop to physical violence over a few cars, a few cars that he never did in the first place. He would also bad mouth all the other detailers about how he was the best and yadaa, yadaa, yadaa. I never meet the guy but he did come around once to a hospital I do alot of work at and he passed flyers out on all the doctors cars. The security guards got wind of it, called him up, and made him remove all the flyers plus go around the hospital and pickup any flyers that had blown off the cars. That was cool



It is no wonder that this guy is now out of business. He must have never truly believed in himself or his work if he had to confront and threaten other detailers.



Anthony
 
Amen to that Anthony there are billions of cars in the world plenty to go around. Cheers to all the detailers with class and ethics like Anthony , Scott , and Brian!:xyxthumbs
 
Anthony-no work today since all my customers had cars at their offices and we did get rained on. I have a limo to detail tomorrow, rain or shine. It is kept in a warehouse so the weather doesn't matter. I got a call this morning from my first customer telling me not to bother since it was already sprinkling, so I went back to bed and slept to about 11 AM. :cool:



Yeah, I've had customer wipe off their dusty cars to show me something and I get some QD and a towel and reclean the area so they know the proper way to do it the next time-or at least wait for me to get my stuff out and clean the area myself.



Even worse, I've seen people place their groceries, packages, etc on the trunk lids of other cars and then drag them off that car and put their stuff in their own. :mad:
 
Now what do you do when your gf starts sitting on the bumper of your car and you say "no don't sit there" and she says "it's ok" and sits anyway, especially worse since she was sitting on the asphalt just a few minutes before that? No, a b****-slap can't be the right answer.



All I could do is show her the scratches she made, after I QD'd the dust away, and now have to find a way to get rid of the scratches. The only way to get them to listen can't be to show the results of their actions. There must be a way to make them understand before any damage is done.
 
bcwang said:
Now what do you do when your gf starts sitting on the bumper of your car and you say "no don't sit there" and she says "it's ok" and sits anyway, especially worse since she was sitting on the asphalt just a few minutes before that? No, a b****-slap can't be the right answer.



All I could do is show her the scratches she made, after I QD'd the dust away, and now have to find a way to get rid of the scratches. The only way to get them to listen can't be to show the results of their actions. There must be a way to make them understand before any damage is done.
Click to expand...



Surely she is now your ex-girlfriend, right? ;)
 
bcwang,



I am thinking that you may need to redo that area because a true Autopians car should be slick as snot (Is snot really slick?) and she should of slid right off the bumper thus brusing her bottom. Justice has then been served!



Scott, (LOL)



I have a detail tomorrow also, rain or shine, on a red BMW at a hospital and the only thing keeping me from finishing it is this pesky head cold. The last couple of weeks I have been slammed as I am sure you have also and I have been able to make up for alot of down time.



I may visit my brother-in-law in the Dallas area and if so perhaps we could hook up. It would be an honor to meet you in person, detail a car together and post the "team" effort and results, whadda ya think?



Take care,

Anthony
 
bcwang said:
Now what do you do when your gf starts sitting on the bumper of your car and you say "no don't sit there" and she says "it's ok" and sits anyway, especially worse since she was sitting on the asphalt just a few minutes before that? No, a b****-slap can't be the right answer.



All I could do is show her the scratches she made, after I QD'd the dust away, and now have to find a way to get rid of the scratches. The only way to get them to listen can't be to show the results of their actions. There must be a way to make them understand before any damage is done.
Click to expand...



I would make her polish the scratches out by hand so she can understand and appreciate the work and pain that goes into making the car beautiful. They tend to not like to do that kind of work twice and, therefore, don't do stupid things like that again.
 
baker999 said:
I would make her polish the scratches out by hand so she can understand and appreciate the work and pain that goes into making the car beautiful. They tend to not like to do that kind of work twice and, therefore, don't do stupid things like that again.
Click to expand...



Yeeeahhhh...... I don't think I would want to let her do that. The type of person who isn't careful in general, isn't the type of person you want polishing your car. I can just imagine if I had her do that for me, when I come back I just know I'm going to wish I just did it myself because

a. more scratches

b. a patch of haze and swirls

c. no more clearcoat

d. no more paint, just metal at that spot.

e. worst case, she decides to help me polish the rest of the car, and abcd apply for the entire car instead of the one spot.
 
Actually I have found that women are the better detailers.....go figure that one.



They just seem to do a more thorough job and well, attract more work.



Now if I could only convince a few to wear a bikini while working...........would the wife mind?



Anthony
 
Anthony-the best helper I ever had was a woman. She worked for me for around 3-4 months while she was in college. Her boyfriend helped out a few times, but she was definitely faster at detailing than he was. She ended up getting pregnant and married (in that order) and decided she didn't want to be around chemicals while she was pregnant.



Wow...this thread is really ADD!
 
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