Can Detailing Lead To A Mental Illness?

B

Billd55

New member
Years ago when I started in the detailing business,I met a very
successful insurance broker in Ft. Lauderale Fl.I went into his garage
and he had a very expensive display of polishers, and a self full of detailing
products. I asked why he had so much stuff considering he was not
in the business? His answer was: It's cheaper than a shrink. :yay
It seems strange to me how come every year there is a new type of
magic TV WAX. I saw on U Tube some detailer in Europe who does
expensive sport cars and buys a block of wax for a insane amount
of money.I wonder sometimes if detailing leads to some kind of mental
sickness. My GOD it's wax not a bar of gold.

Putting layer on top layer of different things on a finish makes no sense
to me, and then use dawn, a clay bar, compound, and polish to remove
it. I have come to believe it is a progressive mental condition to relieve
stress.I feel auto companies should apply more clearcoat to their vehicles
to compensate for the increased wear and tear. I'm confused, I need
feedback please.

BillD
 
You use the term "detailing" and I don't think you know what it means - at least not in the conventional sense.

Are a lot of products necessary? No. However, neither is a 100K+ vehicle, a 5000 sq foot house, or lots of other things people buy to make themselves feel good or have something to spend their money on or whatever.

So far, what I have gathered from your posts, is you wash and apply AT5S super sealant. That's not exactly detailing.... Maybe that's where the confusion comes in.

You say you've been doing this for 20+ years - what do you for customers that come to you that need some sort of finish repair or reconditioning? Products aside - what's your process? What exactly do you do when you "detail?"

Edit: I still can't figure out what it is that you're here to do - learn, promote, educate us, just hang out, etc? I apologize for being pointed and direct, but I am still leary of some sort of agenda.
 
Jared
That's a fair question but,you may not like my answer. Detailing
to me is preventing a problem, not causing one. I had a guy come
to me with a new black very expensive Benz that some so called
expert polisher made his shine look like a ferk show mirror. This
expert actually tried twice to buff the swirls out with compound
and used wax to cover them which works for a while. I am not
a miracle worker who cannot raise the dead, so it what is. I did not
do the damage.

Actually, the main reason many detailers will not use AT-5S sealant
is because it takes some skill to apply it the right way. I spend my
time working with people that are looking for protection first, and
shine second. If they do it once a year, there is no reason a wheel
should be needed to bring back the shine. I will post some pics of a
Tahoe and Jeep I started brand new and they do not need buffing after
3 years.

BillD
 
Billd55 said:
Jared
That's a fair question but,you may not like my answer. Detailing
to me is preventing a problem, not causing one. I had a guy come
to me with a new black very expensive Benz that some so called
expert polisher made his shine look like a ferk show mirror. This
expert actually tried twice to buff the swirls out with compound
and used wax to cover them which works for a while. I am not
a miracle worker who cannot raise the dead, so it what is. I did not
do the damage.

Actually, the main reason many detailers will not use AT-5S sealant
is because it takes some skill to apply it the right way. I spend my
time working with people that are looking for protection first, and
shine second. If they do it once a year, there is no reason a wheel
should be needed to bring back the shine. I will post some pics of a
Tahoe and Jeep I started brand new and they do not need buffing after
3 years.

BillD
Click to expand...


What you had was buffer holograms, or swirls. They are easily removable with very light polish and an orbital buffer.

You're telling me you just put some AT5S on it, and let it go and called it a detail? Swirl marks and all?

I can't see you serving a very large customer base. I doubt less than a few percent of car buyers get their cars brand new, without anyone ever touching the finish, and bring it right to anyone to have a sealant applied immediately.

You don't have to be a miracle worker to polish a paint finish to 95-99% visual perfection. However, any kid off the street can wash and apply some type of wax. There's the difference in detailing and cleaning.

So again, I ask - what is your procedure when you work on a customer vehicle? From when they drive up to when they leave? All I've gotten out of your responses is a wash (maybe) and an application of super sealant. What exactly are you charging (ballpark) for this?
 
Billd55 said:
I will post some pics of a
Tahoe and Jeep I started brand new and they do not need buffing after
3 years.

BillD
Click to expand...

Make sure you got some direct sunlight shots or some shots under a halogen or other comparable light so we can truly examine the finish the best we can over the internet.

I can go take some pics of my neighbors van that hasn't been washed in three years and make the photos look great. Photos don't really prove a whole lot on detailing boards, seeing as how easy they are manipulated.
 
Jared

First, I did not put some AT-5 on it and tell him to go away.
AT-5 will not cover swirl marks up. Please answer me this question?
Why was buffing needed on a new car in the first place. Because,
there was a blemish on the clearcoat. Most experts feel they need
a wheel and compound. Treesap left on clearcoat will leave a dark
spot, and nothing can correct that. Acid rain will etch the clear and
nothing will cure that. Wax offers NO protection for a clear coat, so
why do experts use it. More business.

What you cannot understand, is that there are people out there , and
their clear does not have to be compounded to get a shine. My process
provides an awesome shine without the wheel, and protection for a year.
Down here were I live, there are many guys with your concept of
detailing, and they come and go. I am in the customer business not
a numbers game where I depend on advertising , being in a fixed
location, or a cheap price. You know very little about sealants,
but you act like you do. I have used the same product for many
years, and if you do not believe what I am telling you than that
is your problem.

BillD
 
Billd55 said:
Please answer me this question?
Why was buffing needed on a new car in the first place.
Click to expand...

Any number of reasons:

Hack at the dealership, port fixed problem on the finish, loader scratched the finish delivering to the dealership, etc. Any number of reasons.

Billd55 said:
Because,
there was a blemish on the clearcoat. Most experts feel they need
a wheel and compound.
Click to expand...


Not at all. With the right pad, you can correct light blemishes with a non-abrasive polish. I've done it.


Billd55 said:
Treesap left on clearcoat will leave a dark
spot, and nothing can correct that. Acid rain will etch the clear and
nothing will cure that. Wax offers NO protection for a clear coat, so
why do experts use it. More business.
Click to expand...

Wrong on all three statements. Treesap stains can be removed, with chemical polish, clay, or if severe wetsanding. Again, I've done this.

Etching can sometimes be removed if caught early on. I've seen some pretty serious etching removed. Granted, clear had to be removed, but the etching was "removed."

Wax offers no protection? Are you serious? Wax probably offers better protection against water spotting and etching than does a sealant.

Billd55 said:
What you cannot understand, is that there are people out there , and
their clear does not have to be compounded to get a shine. My process
provides an awesome shine without the wheel, and protection for a year.
Down here were I live, there are many guys with your concept of
detailing, and they come and go. I am in the customer business not
a numbers game where I depend on advertising , being in a fixed
location, or a cheap price. You know very little about sealants,
but you act like you do. I have used the same product for many
years, and if you do not believe what I am telling you than that
is your problem.

BillD
Click to expand...

You're right - I don't understand why you call what you do detailing. You've proven repeatedly through your responses that you are offering up some type of miracle slap on product. Claims of lasting a year are common on Nu Finish and these super duper sealants you seem to be more gradually pushing on here. I don't have a single doubt about what you use or what you're doing, and I can imagine the customer base you have. They're definitely not as picky about the vehicle's finish as some of the folks' customers that I see here and other detailing sites.

As for what I know about sealants - I never claimed to be an expert. But I know what you are, and I can smell it from a mile away.

Repeatedly, you have failed to answer any question regarding your process, which I might add is what detailing is all about - the process. You won't answer any of my questions I have regarding what you do, what you charge, etc and keep going back to telling us all how great this product is. Lemme tell you - if it was that great, you wouldn't have been the first person any of us heard it from.

I'll let you have at it. I won't bother you any more with questions.
 
Jared
Are you smoking crack! If wax does not seal the finish, but stick on it, and you think it is better than a sealant that bonds and seals the finish for water spotting. That is some strange logic.

I am doing a car this Sunday, and I will post the video. I will show exactly what I do.
It is a older white lexus, and I will not need to use a wheel to get a shine. By the
way, I have not seen any video of your work, but lots of talk.

BillD
 
If you have to ask, you just don't understand.

btw, is the product you use and "acrylic conditioner?"
 
before I ever bought a polisher I had made some pretty crappy paint jobs shine using both waxes and or sealants, But that is exactly what the outcome was a pretty shiney crappy paint job.
 
Just going to try this from my experience. We had Sherriffs dept drug seizure Ford Explorer to to get ready for resale last year. The drug dog had scratched the 4 side doors, windows, rubber body to glass seal on ALL 5 doors. Bill this could be seen from 20+ feet away. I buffed with my UDM for about 1 2/3 days and got the clear coat to where you couldnt see the scatches, they were still quite apparent on the glass and rubber yet as I dont think theres any way to correct either one. It was actually fun seeing the turn around. I probably used an orange pad for correction and either PBs SSR2.5 or maybe some 3, followed by Propolish, topped with PBs Polish with Sealant. That thing looked nice except where the rust was. I dont think you have done true correction like lots of us have on daily drivers.
 
tuscarora dave said:
before I ever bought a polisher I had made some pretty crappy paint jobs shine using both waxes and or sealants, But that is exactly what the outcome was a pretty shiney crappy paint job.
Click to expand...

You have probably satisfied about 98% of the populations definition for a nice car.

But to the original posting, detailing is a leisure activity for many to relax. For example, compared to trying to master golf, detailing using expensive products will likely be cheaper and more less frustrating.
 
Billd55 said:
Jared
Are you smoking crack! If wax does not seal the finish, but stick on it, and you think it is better than a sealant that bonds and seals the finish for water spotting. That is some strange logic.

I am doing a car this Sunday, and I will post the video. I will show exactly what I do.
It is a older white lexus, and I will not need to use a wheel to get a shine. By the
way, I have not seen any video of your work, but lots of talk.

BillD
Click to expand...

I have read your past posts but still need clarification.............are you saying there is never a reason to use a machine (or wheel) on a car/boat just the two miracle products that you use?

If I brought a new vehicle to you that had horrific wheel marks (holograms/marring) all over it from an inexperienced dealer employee using a rotary and wool pad how would you correct it prior to using the sealant you speak of? Am I missing something here?
 
I do not know what an acrylic conditioner is, so I cannot comment.There was a product years ago called "Touchless". It was an acrylic product you put on with
sponge. Well, when it dried you better make sure it was perfect, or you had a big
problem because that stuff would not come off. I can understand why Jared and
others think I am pushing snake oil, and I do not blame them. Although, this product
has been around for many years, and I am not the only one using it.

The big companies are now starting to produce sealants, but they do not push them
because they do not want to loose their wax business. Lets face it wax has been
around for ever, and wax does make your car shine, but that's it.

You are right, I am not in the correction business, and I do not want to be.I am in the protection business. I feel it is more productive to find people who want to
protect their paint from the elements, and get an awesome shine for a fair price
($100 exterior only). Considering a express wax is $30, and it lasts about a week
down here, $100 is a deal for a year. My clients send me people, and they back
up everything I am telling you because they have first hand experience.

Look, AT-5 is not the only acrylic sealant out there, but it works for me and it's affordable. At about $40/gal with shipping, and I can do a vehicle with no more
than 3 ozs., do the math. It can be applied by hand. Simply wash the vehicle
with Dawn to clean the surface, and apply it with a terry applicator and wipe it
off with a towel . Watch my new video and I will go into more detail.

BillD
 
I am confused, does every vehicle you do have swirl marks? I have had people come
to me with swirl marks, and and I will usually try to remove them with an orbital
polisher and the pre cleaner I used in my boat video. If that does not solve the
problem I will stop there. I do not want to get into a liability issue over who caused the problem. AT-5 or any otherrsealant will not cover up swirl marks. I hope this answers your question on this matter.

BillD
 
Bill well done. You did manage to ruffle some feathers and get some free product promotion for AT-5. At this point I don't believe you are trying to promote the product other than to justify your sales pitch for your business which is why I haven't killed this whole discussion... yet.

Your argument does not hold water with any sensible detailer who knows how to properly polish paint. You use examples of poor paint polishing to make your point. That's like saying a car shouldn't be painted and point out all the bad paint jobs out there as proof.

You want to tell your customers or potential customers that this product prevents the need for polishing then that's your prerogative. Just don't try to convince people who know better.
 

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Billd55 said:
I am confused, does every vehicle you do have swirl marks? I have had people come
to me with swirl marks, and and I will usually try to remove them with an orbital
polisher and the pre cleaner I used in my boat video. If that does not solve the
problem I will stop there. I do not want to get into a liability issue over who caused the problem. AT-5 or any otherrsealant will not cover up swirl marks. I hope this answers your question on this matter.

BillD
Click to expand...

So basically you're not a "detailer" but a "wash and sealer"
 
Billd55 said:
I am confused, does every vehicle you do have swirl marks? I have had people come
to me with swirl marks, and and I will usually try to remove them with an orbital
polisher and the pre cleaner I used in my boat video. If that does not solve the
problem I will stop there. I do not want to get into a liability issue over who caused the problem. AT-5 or any otherrsealant will not cover up swirl marks. I hope this answers your question on this matter.BillD
Click to expand...

Assuming you were addressing me----------

Yes, every vehicle I have ever done had swirls, marring, or irregularities including brand new with under 20 miles on them. That is the very reason I am hired, to remove them and seal/protect the surface. Where you find these perfect paint jobs to wash and seal only is beyond my realm of belief or even imagination. I'm glad it works for you and that you have a steady supply of customers that are pleased with so little effort.

Perhaps I am locked into the past. Correction, protection, and teaching the individual how to keep it that way is all I know how to do. If a wash, pre-cleaner, and sealant is all that's required to make money and satisfy picky auto owners then I've been an idiot for quite some time. I'm done with this thread, it smells of fish.
 
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