buffer marks

A

ahunt01

New member
I just got my car repainted and I'm not positive but I believe I have buffer marks all over my car, either that or the body shop waxed/washed it and swirled it up heavily. I guess the only test will be once the paint has cured enough then I can put on some type of filler wax and see what that does the swirls.



If they are buffer marks, which they certainly look like, are they in the color coat, or the clearcoat?



And what would happen if I put Z-5 and/or Z2 on a car with buffer marks? Would Z2 amplify them as it does swirls? Or maybe that would depend on the marks being in the color coat or clear coat?

If I can fill the buffer marks then I'd much rather just work them out myself, but if it's under the clearcoat then I'll deal with the bodyshop.

Thanks for the help everyone:D
 
Unless they just started doing paintwork yesterday, they are almost certainly in the clearcoat, as there's no reason they would buff the base coat prior to spraying clear (It's a no-no), I've never witnessed that anyway. They may have compounded without polishing afterwards. Common believe it or not.



You'll need abrasives to remove them, and patience (which they obviously didn't exercise) but it can be done. If it were me, I'd start with a medium grade abrasive such as 3M Machine Glaze or 3m Finesse-It II Finishing Material and then even finish it off with a fine swirl remover and a finish pad, especially if it's a dark color.



Good luck.
 
I forgot to address your other question...



Yes, Zaino will magnify them. I think you have a case to take it back to them and have them finish off the paintwork properly, which is what I would do if I weren't a detailer. But if you have the know how, tools and skills, you can do it better than they would, simply because it's your car and you CARE.



Nothing's ever easy, is it? Best of luck.
 
Awesome! I was afraid it was in the base coat. I seriously doubt they'll touch my car now, since I've filed a police report on them. Someone there stole my 2004 sticker off of my plate while the car sat in the shop for two weeks, and I didn't realize it until an officer pulled me over and fined me, which I got straightend out. Long story lol. Anyrate, I'd much rather just do the work myself then take it back to that place. As long as it's in the clear coat then that makes me happy lol.
 
ahunt, If you had some close up pics it would be a lot easier to diagnose exactly what caused it, but no self respecting body shop would sand basecolor without respraying it after...i.e.;. If there is a run or dirt etc. in basecolor, you can wait till it flashes off and sand it out, but you always re-coat the base in that spot, otherwise the tone changes, and you don't want that when you clear it.



I have never, ever heard of basecoat being buffed (that doesn't mean someone hasn't tried I guess, though I can't imagine why they would). There's just no reason to do so because it lays flat and easy and even runs in base are rare for a trained painter, because the stuff goes on so uniform and flashes so quickly. This is why they have to be in the clear.



Now, I say all this *HOPING* you aren't referring to sanding scratch marks BELOW the base, in the primer or previous layer of oem paint, because then it's a whole 'nother ballgame.



I would be able to tell you right off, as would many here. That's why pics are always helpful. If you know what compounding swirls look like, then you probably had an idea that was what you were seeing.



Best of luck, sorry to hear another "bad bodyshop' horror story. Too many of them around these days. Cheers.
 
Zaino will not touch those swirls. If they are the result of Johnny First Day and his buffer, you'll most likely need a rotary to get them out. Try taking it to another reputable body shop to get a quote or opinion.
 
Well they said they would buff the car to leave no orange peel, I thought I was going to get a show car look but they didn't even remove the orange peel well. I always thought the orange peel look was caused by the base coat, but I guess it's the clear coat that they buffed to "remove" the orange peel. This place supposidly paints show cars, so I figured it was in good hands.



No I'm not refering to scratches below the base, although I did have swirls below it, but they painted over it all and I don't see any of the swirls that were in the base coat. I see swirls caused by buffing, by an orbital buffer more than likely, or by someone who was polishing furiously by hand. They claimed that they wouldn't polish the car, but the idiots didn't think enough to check inbetween the jams, and I can see white residue from it. So they could have pushed to hard and caused the swirls that way too. Either rate, I can remove them, or if not then I can find a good detailer.

See, the reason I'm wondering is that if the scratches are indeed below the clear coat, then I'd take the car to my insurance and say I want it repainted. But if they aren't, then I'd much rather just fix the swirls myself after 60 days once the paint fully cures because the paintjob is a nice one. It's just the swirls that I don't like, and I'm so tired of taking it to shops that I'd much rather just do it myself.

Hehe sorry for no pics, here ya go.



swirlycar2.jpg
swirlycar.jpg
 
Good pics, yes that helps.



It's as we thought, they just went nuts with a rotary and some compound and never finish polished it correctly.



BTW, orange peel ( to the extent it matters) will always be in the clear of a base/clear system, as even a novice can spray base pretty flat. It's due to the solvent content and how it lays and flows out.



You can make that paint look great, just take your time with it and you'll get there. Cheers.
 
ahunt01 said:
They claimed that they wouldn't polish the car, but the idiots didn't think enough to check inbetween the jams, and I can see white residue from it. So they could have pushed to hard and caused the swirls that way too. Either rate, I can remove them, or if not then I can find a good detailer.
Click to expand...



Well that was an interesting response. Compounding after a repaint is a necessary step... I wonder why they would claim that no polishing was done. I think Guitarman's initial assessment was correct. They compounded the car to a nice shine, but didn't do the final polishing step... This is something I see all the time and even happened to MY car when getting my bumper repaired. I had to polish out a lot of compounding swirls myself.



ahunt01 said:
But if they aren't, then I'd much rather just fix the swirls myself after 60 days once the paint fully cures because the paintjob is a nice one.
Click to expand...



Oh, don't worry about waiting 60 days. As long as you're using body-shop safe products like 3M or Meguiar's Mirror Glaze line, you're fine. These products were made SPECIFICALLY to be used on freshly paint surfaces. Hold off on the final wax though!
 
Cool, I'd love to polish out the swirls now. The only problem I was thinking about is that I'm a Zaino fanatic not a polish/wax person (been that route and I prefer the look/longevity of Zaino, but that's another topic for another thread;)).

So when it's time to Zaino the car I'll have to dawn wash it and that'll strip the polish off and the swirls will be back right?
 
ahunt01 said:
So when it's time to Zaino the car I'll have to dawn wash it and that'll strip the polish off and the swirls will be back right?
Click to expand...



If you polish properly by actually leveling out the buffer swirls, they should not come back.
 
Ahh, oakily dokily.



1. Just to make sure, 3M or Meguiar's Mirror Glaze line won't haze my new paint? The yahoo who painted the car said that using polish/wax too early would haze the paint, but 3M or the Meguir's Mirror Glaze line won't do that correct?



2. Will I need a PC to apply it? I'm strapped for cash because of Christmas, so I would prefer to just do it by hand if possible. Even if I have to do it a couple more times, it's cheaper on me and good exercise lol.
 
You can't really strip polish off. If you remove them, they're not going to come back. The only thing you can do is strip off the fillers from the polish, but you can remove the fillers. Try a compound of moderately aggressive polish like DACP with a yellow pad and see if that takes care of the buffer marks.
 
3M and Meguiar's professional line of polishes are all "body shop safe" and used by painters in the shop all the time, even right after the paint dries (80% cure). They contain no wax or silicone and there's nothing in them that should haze paint IF used correctly. You might want to check into a hand held/ grip polishing pad, it will help provide more even pressure than your hand can. You'll have to clean it often though because polish build up will diminish it's effective cutting. Same with a terry towel- always use a fresh part of it once it loads up with polish.



You can do it by hand, but you'll need to repeat the polishing process a number of times to even approximate what a machine can do. I would work in straight back & forth motions on a 1'x2' area and keep at it till you see results, however long it takes. Spray some isopropyl alcohol and water on the area after you work the product almost dry, this will lubricate the residue so it doesn't further micro -mar during removal, and also allows you to see the paint well as it removes any fillers that *some* products have (fine swirl removers often do). That way, you have a clear view of what you're accomplishing.



Best of luck.
 
I'm gonna have to give this a shot in the next week or two. What kind of pressure should I apply by hand? I'm guessing I should polish it like I would normally do right, with minimal pressure? And instead of spraying isopropyl alcohol and water on the car to lubricate it, would Z6 be better? One more thing, I'm not a big fan of Meg's, so I'd prefer to use 3M, but I'd use Megs if they make a better product. What would be recommended?
 
Both are fine product lines, FWIW, I've always used 3M stuff myself. It does what I need it to do. Yes, you can use Z6 (I sometimes use Final Inspection this way) instead of the alcohol & water mix if you wish, just don't use anything with wax in it.



Apply medium pressure by hand, you're going to have to make up for a good amount of heat/friction that a machine would have, to break the products down and have them level the paint, so you have do it by working it harder initially.



You can start out with light pressure and see if that works, but my guess is it will take a bit more grunt. However, you should always lighten up on the pressure as the product breaks down, and your last passes should be light. This is a good general rule for compounding and polishing IMO.
 
What medium cut polish from 3M should I use? I'm guessing 3M Perfect-It Fine Cut Rubbing Compound would be too harsh?
 
I was looking at

3M Perfect-It Paste Rubbing Compound, or 3M Perfect-It Fine Cut Compound, or 3M Perfect-It Swirl Mark Remover for Dark Colored Cars.

I'm not sure which one would be best for my car, I've never done anything like this. I've always just hid my swirls with Z5, never attempted to remove them.

After using something like the products above, should I follow up with a bodyshop friendly polish safe for freshly painted cars to remove any haze or micro-maring created? If so then what is recommended?
 
I wouldn't use a fine cut R/C since that's what they likely used to get you where you're at now.



See my previous post regarding 3M Machine Glaze or Finesse-It II F/M, either is a good choice, though the Finesse-It II F/M may be better via hand use.





Happy New Year. :)
 
Ok, I am in the process of checking locally to see if I can find some 3M products. I feel dumb asking, but what does the F/M stand for in "Finesse-It II F/M"? I looked at Pep-Boys, and all they had was

3m.jpg


3m2.jpg


3m3.jpg
.
 
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