Bodyshop Paint Repair Question

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Whiskey8

New member
I just took delivery of a 2011 Mustang GT Premium. The factory color is Performance White. There was considerable damage done to the paint during shipping. There was even a quarter inch of sand / rocks sitting in the reservoir that holds the wipers when it showed up! The car has never been a daily driver and never been driven in elements so it was pretty cherry before shipping.



I went out to get some estimates yesterday and picked 2 highly reviewed shops and the dealer. All 3 said the same thing about fixing the paint and it left me wondering whether or not I should get the paint fixed.



They said in order to fix an area with chips they sand that area, re-paint it and then grade the paint out towards the end of the panel. So instead of re-painting the entire panel they paint the damaged area, sand the entire panel and then blend the new paint into the factory section that wasn't damaged then clear coat the entire panel. Is this the correct way to do it? I assumed the entire panel would re-painted. One of the shops, Mike's Paint, is PPG and I-Car Gold Class certified. The other shop's painter, Elite Auto Collision Repair, is a master painter with BASF. Both have good local reviews.



I was also told that keeping the factory paint and just leaving the chips is worth considering due to the factory paint job being superior to any aftermarket paint.



I'm a bit of a perfectionist and any inconsistencies will definitely bother me. The rock chips bother me but I know even after they are fixed, new ones will pop up. Just not sure if I should keep the factory paint and deal with them or go ahead and get it fixed. I'd like a clear invisible bra but I'm pretty sure that would effect proper detailing. If I do get it fixed, the fix would include both front fenders, the front bumper and the hood.



The rims on one side are also being re-surfaced, one of the headlights replaced, and the windshield needs replaced (numerous chips).



Any advice is appreciated.
 
Got any pics of the chipped areas you can post? You may be able to repair them with something like Dr. Colorchip if they're not too horrible.



That said, what the shops told you is indeed the correct repair procedure. There's no reason to worry about them blending the base coat when they are preparing and re-clearing the entire affected panel -- it's not like the blend is going to peel or anything like that.



Just my opinion, I'd go with the shop with PPG and I-CAR Gold Class certification if you do decide to have it refinished.
 
I do have pics but unfortunately I can't post them due to my post count. So I shouldn't be able to notice the spot on the panel they re-painted vs. the rest of the panel? I just was concerned about the color being sightly off and the durability of the aftermarket paint vs. factory. The PPG, I-CAR Gold Class place was actually trying to talk me out of having them do it, saying that keeping as much factory paint as possible was always preferable. That would mean just living with the chips though.



The front left quarter panel and front windshield def need fixed. Chains rubbed on the fender and there's too many chips on the windshield to even bother counting.
 
if you are a perfectionist, no chip repair will make you happy - I know I wouldn't be happy.



C. Charles Hahn said:
Got any pics of the chipped areas you can post? You may be able to repair them with something like Dr. Colorchip if they're not too horrible.



That said, what the shops told you is indeed the correct repair procedure. There's no reason to worry about them blending the base coat when they are preparing and re-clearing the entire affected panel -- it's not like the blend is going to peel or anything like that.



Just my opinion, I'd go with the shop with PPG and I-CAR Gold Class certification if you do decide to have it refinished.
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Thomas - Just talked to Ricardo. Really a great guy. He said that's the way it's done and on a white car that's as new as mine, I won't be able to tell the difference. He also gave me advice on which place to go based on what brand of paint they use. Given that this isn't my daily driver and my plans to enter it in some local shows, he'd get it fixed. If I was using it as a DD he might consider keeping the factory paint due to the higher durability. The car isn't going to be a trailer queen but I bought it for club day track events, weekend cruising and local shows.
 
Whiskey8 said:
I do have pics but unfortunately I can't post them due to my post count. So I shouldn't be able to notice the spot on the panel they re-painted vs. the rest of the panel? I just was concerned about the color being sightly off and the durability of the aftermarket paint vs. factory. The PPG, I-CAR Gold Class place was actually trying to talk me out of having them do it, saying that keeping as much factory paint as possible was always preferable. That would mean just living with the chips though.



The front left quarter panel and front windshield def need fixed. Chains rubbed on the fender and there's too many chips on the windshield to even bother counting.
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Done properly you should not notice a blend; actually you'd be more likely to notice if they simply refinished the whole panel and just let the refinish color butt up against an adjacent panel.



The shop is right that factory paint is preferable to keep and that the durability is probably better, but at the same time if you're planning to have it wrapped in a clear bra after the repair is complete then durability is not much of a factor.



Thomas Dekany said:
if you are a perfectionist, no chip repair will make you happy - I know I wouldn't be happy.
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I agree; I was just throwing out another option.



Whiskey8 said:
I'm really interested in one but how does that effect detailing?
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Why would it affect detailing? Make sure the panel is fully corrected and perfect before the clear bra is applied and there will be no need to worry about it.
 
Color should never be brought to an adjacent panel. You will see the blend. Keeping color to the repair and clearing the whole panel is the principal as Charlie said. That's what makes a near invisible repair. The more room you give on color then clear keeps the eye from noticing the transition. Having a trained eye you may see it under intense light (grain between layers overlap) but done right never in the most direct sun.
 
In regards to the clear bra and detailing, I meant that's it's not really possible to detail under the bra once applied. Wasn't sure how that would look over time with waxing, applying products, etc to the rest of the car but the front end remaining the same.
 
When and if you had the clear bra applied,"Which I think is a stellar idea" you should have as close to a perfect surface as possible underneath free of defects you don't want to be looking at forever.Which shouldn't be a problem considering it would be a newly painted surface. If the shops are free of nincompoopery, you shouldn't have "soak in" issues.

If is are any marring or light scratches that "some how appear" on the bra after installation I myself, and many fellow stewards on this site have had good results correcting them. Do be sure you NOT cake the compound, polish wax or any other jazz at the seam of clear bra and paint, thats just not cool. Make sure you have a high quality film installed to avoid discoloration that might occur via UV rays. I would probably protect as you would your paint but i have found some of the oily-er products take some of the films clarity.

*Also make sure that the paint has had time to degas/Fully dry before film application, consult with your shop on that duration of time 30 to 90 days generally.



Sorry for cutting in fellas, let me know if that sounds about right. I used to write body estimates for a few of the quality local shops in my area before I took the plunge detailing.These concerns were voiced often by customers who actually care for their cars.
 
Your vehicle may not qualify for warranty work, however, it is always a good idea to consider the following.



Ford paint warranty, look in your owners manual-12 month or 12,000 miles is what it should show. (there are some "silent" warranties that may apply) and of course, where did the dealer obtain the vehicle from-example-was it an "off lease", was it "out of fleet use", was it a "trade-in" from an previous owner who either the dealer or owner regisitored the the vehicle's warranty at time of delivery.



What ever it takes to make the car right may be under warranty at this point, requires taking in to consideration the above points.



Repair of the paint issue.

1. Do not allow a "blend" on a panel. (the modern clearcoat systems do no allow for "blending" of panels), IE Ford required per their Body and Paint Technical Center's research and findings and Technical Service Bulletins, as the "blend" will show in a year or two.

2. Make sure that the shop or dealer uses only Ford approved refinish materials and processes.

3. If these very basic's are not followed, any future concerns are not covered by the Ford Factory Warranty.

4. Make sure to point this out to the dealership/selected bodyshop facility, when you present your issue.

Let me know how this progresses as you go through the process.

Grumpy
 
Ron Ketcham said:
Your vehicle may not qualify for warranty work, however, it is always a good idea to consider the following.



Ford paint warranty, look in your owners manual-12 month or 12,000 miles is what it should show. (there are some "silent" warranties that may apply) and of course, where did the dealer obtain the vehicle from-example-was it an "off lease", was it "out of fleet use", was it a "trade-in" from an previous owner who either the dealer or owner regisitored the the vehicle's warranty at time of delivery.



What ever it takes to make the car right may be under warranty at this point, requires taking in to consideration the above points.



Repair of the paint issue.

1. Do not allow a "blend" on a panel. (the modern clearcoat systems do no allow for "blending" of panels), IE Ford required per their Body and Paint Technical Center's research and findings and Technical Service Bulletins, as the "blend" will show in a year or two.

2. Make sure that the shop or dealer uses only Ford approved refinish materials and processes.

3. If these very basic's are not followed, any future concerns are not covered by the Ford Factory Warranty.

4. Make sure to point this out to the dealership/selected bodyshop facility, when you present your issue.

Let me know how this progresses as you go through the process.

Grumpy
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Ron - Thanks for the info. I'm a bit confused since it goes against what everyone else has said here about blending, unless I'm reading it wrong (which is entirely possible, if I knew about this stuff I wouldn't be here). Did you just mean the clear coat? All of the places said they would clear coat the entire panel, by blending I meant the paint.



I bought the car from a private seller in Utah. It's still under warranty but beyond the first year so I don't think paint is covered. Even if it was I think the onus would be on the private shipper since the damage was his fault. In Virginia we have a law that states a person doesn't have to get multiple quotes and can choose any body shop they want. I'm not sure if it applies in this situation since the shipper isn't based in Virginia but I'm hoping so.



I was told to steer away from having Ford's Collision Center fix it due to them using Sherwin Williams paint and that BASF paint was much better.



As soon I get my post count up, I'll add some photos.
 
Buff - What brand of clear bra is thought of to be the best? I've been reading up and there seem to be a number to choose from, and of course everyone claims theirs is the best.
 
Whiskey8 said:
In regards to the clear bra and detailing, I meant that's it's not really possible to detail under the bra once applied. Wasn't sure how that would look over time with waxing, applying products, etc to the rest of the car but the front end remaining the same.
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That's a non-issue, really; as long as you have a fully corrected paint finish under the film and you make sure a quality film is used it isn't going to matter what wax you put on the rest of the paint. It isn't like you're going to put a product on the bare sections of paint and make the rest of the car noticeably change color.



Buff Guys Auto said:
If is are any marring or light scratches that "some how appear" on the bra after installation I myself, and many fellow stewards on this site have had good results correcting them. Do be sure you NOT cake the compound, polish wax or any other jazz at the seam of clear bra and paint, thats just not cool. Make sure you have a high quality film installed to avoid discoloration that might occur via UV rays.
Click to expand...



Absolutely right; these days I'd just spring for the self-healing XPEL Ultimate film so there should never be a need to do correction on it as long as it's not intentionally abused or neglected through poor maintenance and washing techniques.



Easiest way around the compound/etc. caking up at the edges of a clear bra would be to have full panels wrapped in film as much as possible so there are minimal seams to worry about. For example:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/click-...timate-self-healing-film-unique-car-care.html
 
If a panel has the clear "blended" in a spot, in a year or so, a "hazy" line around the area usually appears.

This is due to the clear being "thinner" on those edges and the UV rays are breaking the clear down, since it is thinner and has insufficent UV blockers because of the lack of film build.

Ford's Body and Paint Tech Center, in it's manuals and TSB's, do not recommend blending, only complete clearing of a complete panel to a break line.

There's nothing wrong with Sherwin Williams materials, or BASF, the only real difference is the painters perference due to some unknown.

Then there is the issue of what the PBE supplier in the area pushes due having a better deal from one paint company over another.

I have used both, as well as several others and, when it's all said and done are pretty much equal.

That said, BASF, DuPont, AzoNoble, PPG, Sherwin Williams, etc, for a total of around 10 paint brands, are tested and approved by a consortium of GM, Chrysler and Ford body/paint techs every couple of years.

The Big 3 then list these approved paint suppliers in their TSB's, etc.



Grumpy
 
Happened on my car! Thanks for the great advice Ron.



Ron Ketcham said:
If a panel has the clear "blended" in a spot, in a year or so, a "hazy" line around the area usually appears.

This is due to the clear being "thinner" on those edges and the UV rays are breaking the clear down, since it is thinner and has insufficent UV blockers because of the lack of film build.

Ford's Body and Paint Tech Center, in it's manuals and TSB's, do not recommend blending, only complete clearing of a complete panel to a break line.

There's nothing wrong with Sherwin Williams materials, or BASF, the only real difference is the painters perference due to some unknown.

Then there is the issue of what the PBE supplier in the area pushes due having a better deal from one paint company over another.

I have used both, as well as several others and, when it's all said and done are pretty much equal.

That said, BASF, DuPont, AzoNoble, PPG, Sherwin Williams, etc, for a total of around 10 paint brands, are tested and approved by a consortium of GM, Chrysler and Ford body/paint techs every couple of years.

The Big 3 then list these approved paint suppliers in their TSB's, etc.



Grumpy
Click to expand...
 
Ron Ketcham said:
If a panel has the clear "blended" in a spot, in a year or so, a "hazy" line around the area usually appears.

This is due to the clear being "thinner" on those edges and the UV rays are breaking the clear down, since it is thinner and has insufficent UV blockers because of the lack of film build.

Ford's Body and Paint Tech Center, in it's manuals and TSB's, do not recommend blending, only complete clearing of a complete panel to a break line.

There's nothing wrong with Sherwin Williams materials, or BASF, the only real difference is the painters perference due to some unknown.

Then there is the issue of what the PBE supplier in the area pushes due having a better deal from one paint company over another.

I have used both, as well as several others and, when it's all said and done are pretty much equal.

That said, BASF, DuPont, AzoNoble, PPG, Sherwin Williams, etc, for a total of around 10 paint brands, are tested and approved by a consortium of GM, Chrysler and Ford body/paint techs every couple of years.

The Big 3 then list these approved paint suppliers in their TSB's, etc.



Grumpy
Click to expand...



clarification question, could blending a panel also be understood to blending just color for matching purposes and going to the edge of it with clear. whereas a 'burn in or spot" does NOT go to the edge with clear and results in the eventual visual halo.
 
Buff Guys Auto said:
clarification question, could blending a panel also be understood to blending just color for matching purposes and going to the edge of it with clear. whereas a 'burn in or spot" does NOT go to the edge with clear and results in the eventual visual halo.
Click to expand...



A proper blend panel means blending the base (color) coat and applying fresh clear coat to the entire panel, edge to edge. An improper blend ("burn in or spot repair") indicates that the clear is also only applied to a spot (not the entire panel).



Basically when a clear coat spot repair is performed the technician will use a "blending solvent" which is sprayed onto the edges of the fresh clear which allows it to "etch" into the existing clear on the rest of the panel. At first this makes the edge mostly invisible, but as Ron mentioned it compromises the UV protection in the blend zone and also thins the film build significantly. Over time and with environmental exposure, or due to excessive sanding/buffing, the edge will become more noticeable. That's why it's not a proper lasting repair.
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
A proper blend panel means blending the base (color) coat and applying fresh clear coat to the entire panel, edge to edge. An improper blend ("burn in or spot repair") indicates that the clear is also only applied to a spot (not the entire panel).



Basically when a clear coat spot repair is performed the technician will use a "blending solvent" which is sprayed onto the edges of the fresh clear which allows it to "etch" into the existing clear on the rest of the panel. At first this makes the edge mostly invisible, but as Ron mentioned it compromises the UV protection in the blend zone and also thins the film build significantly. Over time and with environmental exposure, or due to excessive sanding/buffing, the edge will become more noticeable. That's why it's not a proper lasting repair.
Click to expand...



Interesting I was't aware that blending solvent existed, Thanks for fielding that question Charles very informative!
 
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