Blackfire Metal Polish vs. Aluminum

H

Hagasan07

New member
Hello to all,



I am a newbie at detailing and it looks like I found a great place

to learn.



I own a white 2001 Subaru Forester S and I should mention I live in

Toronto, Ontario, Canada.



For those not familiar with Toronto, it generally snows (alot!) from January to late March. Although, the main roads are cleared often and end up being a slush/dirt mix.



A friend recommended to me Mother's products for detailing the outside

of the car. So I spent $50 on:



1) Mothers California Gold Pre-Wax Cleaner

2) Mothers California Gold Sealer & Glaze

3) Mothers California Gold Original Formula Carnauba Cleaner Wax

4) Simoniz 100% cotton terry towels



I've read through most of the tips on this site, but still have some questions:



1) what do you think of the products I bought given my car and environmental situation?



2) if water no longer beads on the surface of the car, would it be harmful to still use the pre-wax cleaner (given that the old wax is already gone)?



3) should I use detergent (i.e. dawn) and water before the pre-wax cleaner, or is this redundant?



4) someone mentions to buff off the pre-wax cleaner shortly after application...will I be able to tell if I have buffed it off properly (i.e. is it noticeably visible)?



5) finally...it is currently 6 degrees C (43 degrees F) in Toronto...can I still wax before winter comes???





Thanks so much for the help,



Kevin
 
Waxes will not hold up well in conditons in Canada, especially winter. Also I would not use those towels. Terry towels are very rough on paint, and can make your car swirl city. Microfiber or quality cotton towels are better.

If it is 6 degrees out, the wax will take for ever to dry, and even then it probably wont bond properly. For such harsh conditions you would be much better of with a paint sealant. Sealants last around 6 months, and will easily get you through a winter. I recommend either Klasse All-In-One and Klasse Sealant Glaze or Zaino Brothers Show Car Polish. They are both polymer based sealants and will give you 6 months of protection with minimal work. I personally use both products on various cars, and they are both very high quality products.

Klasse can be found at www.properautocare.com www.tacscar.com

Zaino can be found at www.zainobros.com

High Quality Microfiber towels can be found at www.properautocare.com www.tacscar.com www.yosteve.com www.neatitems.com
 
Hi Kevin welcome onboard!

Although I haven't tried all of the products you mentioned Mother's makes some good products. I don't want to bum you out but is it possible to return these products still? For the kind of ultimate long lasting protection for real winter climates you would be better off using a good quality polymer sealant rather than wax imho. If you do decide to wax it will protect your paint but it won't last as long. Also with the two step cleaning process that you mentioned with Mothers I don't think will need to use an abbrasive cleaner wax after that. Cleaner waxes are typically used when someone doesn't want to do prep work. Cleaner wax is designed as a one step product to clean with abrasive and wax at the same time.

Here are some sealants to consider:

<em class='bbc'>click on the images for more info[/i]

http://store4.yimg.com/I/classic-motoring_1657_2740768 Z2 Sealant
 
Assuming your going to keep the items listed, #3 is a lil redundant since you already have the pre wax cleaner and sealant glaze. Carnauba without the cleaner would have been a better way to go for the topper.



If you started with the prewax cleaner and then used the sealant glaze, why would you want to use a "cleaner" wax again ??? Its already cleaned and sealed. Straight carnauba would be the next logical step.... However...I would agree with the others. In your extreme environment, a polymer product would offer superior protection...when it warms up....nothing wrong with the carnauba.

My .02



TBone :)
 
Kevin, I hope my response isn't too confusing, but I typed a lot of my reply in unbolded text within your original text.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by kevin_uoft [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Hello to all,

I am a newbie at detailing and it looks like I found a great place
to learn.[/b]

I know how you feel!

<strong class='bbc'>I own a white 2001 Subaru Forester S and I should mention I live in
Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

For those not familiar with Toronto, it generally snows (alot!) from January to late March. Although, the main roads are cleared often and end up being a slush/dirt mix. [/b]

My wife is from Toronto. She's says the weather there is pretty damn cold.

<strong class='bbc'>A friend recommended to me Mother's products for detailing the outside
of the car. So I spent $50 on:[/b]

I'm sure he/she meant well! (j/k)

<strong class='bbc'>1) Mothers California Gold Pre-Wax Cleaner
2) Mothers California Gold Sealer & Glaze
3) Mothers California Gold Original Formula Carnauba Cleaner Wax
4) Simoniz 100% cotton terry towels

I've read through most of the tips on this site, but still have some questions:

1) what do you think of the products I bought given my car and environmental situation?[/b]

Insufficient, unless you have a means to regularly detail your car through the winter. Also, one of the previous posts is right about those Simoniz towels. Use either the softest 100% cotton towels you can get a hold of, or use MF.

Also, like the previous post stated (again), using cleaner wax is redundant as your car has already been cleaned. Furthermore, the cleaner wax might remove your glaze...thus negating about 30-45 minutes of hard work.

<strong class='bbc'>2) if water no longer beads on the surface of the car, would it be harmful to still use the pre-wax cleaner (given that the old wax is already gone)?[/b]

Absolutely not. The purpose of the pre-wax cleaner is to cleanse your car (hence the name) as well as restore your car's original beauty and remove minor swirls and surface imperfections. Doesn't matter if your car has any wax or not. It will just remove whatever wax is on your car...if there is any. After using the cleaner, the surface of your car should be nice and smooth and ready for the glaze and wax. But I would never wait till your car stops beading to reapply protectant (wax), although this point may be moot because you are preparing your car for the winter.

<strong class='bbc'>3) should I use detergent (i.e. dawn) and water before the pre-wax cleaner, or is this redundant?[/b]

IMO, redundant.

<strong class='bbc'>4) someone mentions to buff off the pre-wax cleaner shortly after application...will I be able to tell if I have buffed it off properly (i.e. is it noticeably visible)?[/b]

Yup. Just work in the cleaner in a straight back and forth motion (not circular) until most of the product is gone and then wipe off any remaining residue. Surface should be nice and smooth. Work in 2-3 sq foot portions of your car.

On a side note, have you checked to see if your car has any embedded particles in its paint? Even though your car is new, it could have surface contaminants originating from industrial fallout, railroad dust (from transport), brake dust...etc. You can check by covering your fingers in plastic wrap and running them over your paint (only right after you wash your car!). It should feel very smooth, like glass. If not, then you might have to clay your car. Pre-wax cleaner may not be strong enough to remove large embedded particles.

<strong class='bbc'>5) finally...it is currently 6 degrees C (43 degrees F) in Toronto...can I still wax before winter comes???[/b]

I'm in Los Angeles...can't help you on this one.


<strong class='bbc'>Thanks so much for the help,

Kevin [/b]</blockquote>

I've used the Mother's cleaner wax before but that was a long time ago so it's hard to rate how well it worked. However, I've used their claybars and the package came with a small sample of their cleaner wax. I tried the cleaner wax on my clear-coated marble coffee table and wasn't too impressed. Not exactly the best way to test a wax, I know...but I've tried a bunch of waxes on that coffee table and the Mother's wax was the least slick and least shiny. I've never tried their carnauba pure (cleanerless) wax nor their glaze nor their pre-wax cleaner.

If you want to protect your car with something that will last through the winter, then (like the previous posts stated) you will have to use a synthetic polymer (or paint sealant). The most popular ones on this forum are the Klasse Twins & Zaino. You can also add a newcomer to that list...Blackfire.

HTH
 
hi all,

thanks for the responses so far.

I just wanted to mention that the reason I went with
the Mother's products was not because of my friend.

I heard about it from him. Then when I went to epinions.com (http://www.epinions.com/auto-Care-All),
there was an overwhelming support for the product, so I went with that.

But I will definitely consider all your suggestions.

Thanks again.
 
I'd be rather skeptical of that site based on some of the product reviews there. Armor All is highly rated there and we know that it is unsafe to use on just about any part of your car. A lot of the reviewers are not anywhere near as 'into' detailing as people here are. I'd listen to reviews on this site much more than anything there.

Mothers products are so-so for newbies, but you can get better results with other over the counter products IMO. Mothers clay is quite good for the price, I used it with great results.

Perhaps you should try one of the products Short Cut recommended? Meguiars #20 is available over the counter, and if you don't want to buy $40 worth of Klasse you can buy a smaller sample kit with enough Klasse to do 2 cars from www.yosteve.com . www.tacsar.com also has Klasse on special for about $30.
 
About the 6 degree temps. Make sure at least the wax or sealant you are using is room temperature. Any wax or sealant that is below 32 farenheit may have frozen water particles in it that could scratch your car. The coldest I have applied sealant or wax to a vehicle was about 15 degrees(I know, that's crazy) in the dead of winter in a garage. It was about five degrees outside. It does not apply easily and takes a lot longer to dry. I did not see any damage from it, though. My car was covered with salt for about two weeks straight and felt it needed protection replacement. Every time I would wash the car it would get covered with salt spray from the road the next day. Just make sure your car is very clean before attempting this in the winter. Whatever your state or province uses for snow(salt or sand) there may be residue left on the vehicle even after a car wash.
 
My responses are in parentheses.



For those not familiar with Toronto, it generally snows (alot!) from January to late March. Although, the main roads are cleared often and end up being a slush/dirt mix.

(Not much different than Chicago including the use of salt to clear the roads)



A friend recommended to me Mother's products for detailing the outside of the car. So I spent $50 on:



1) Mothers California Gold Pre-Wax Cleaner

2) Mothers California Gold Sealer & Glaze

3) Mothers California Gold Original Formula Carnauba Cleaner Wax

4) Simoniz 100% cotton terry towels



(As the others have said, you are going to need something more durable for the harsh conditions. I have Klasse on the Maxima and it is doing a very good job in retaining its shine even after all the rain we have gotten in the past few days. For application, you would do better in getting foam applicators (I like the Viking HD Applicators) and for removal, get a good microfiber towel)



I've read through most of the tips on this site, but still have some questions:



1) what do you think of the products I bought given my car and environmental situation?

(See Above)



2) if water no longer beads on the surface of the car, would it be harmful to still use the pre-wax cleaner (given that the old wax is already gone)?

(As one poster so eloquently said, it's an unnecessary and redundant step)



3) should I use detergent (i.e. dawn) and water before the pre-wax cleaner, or is this redundant? (See #2)



4) someone mentions to buff off the pre-wax cleaner shortly after application...will I be able to tell if I have buffed it off properly (i.e. is it noticeably visible)?

(In some cases, yes. When I applied Klasse AIO on the Maxima, there was a difference in feel. But part of that was due to my surface preparation. First, I washed the car with Dawn, then clayed it with a Mother's clay bar)



5) finally...it is currently 6 degrees C (43 degrees F) in Toronto...can I still wax before winter comes???

(Only if you are dressed for it or have a warm place to do it. I generally stop washing the Max outdoors below 50 degrees because some products will not bond well to the finish at lower temperatures and PrinzII does not handle getting colds well at all)
 
The coolant tank (for a 360 Ferrari) was sent to me by a gentleman in Virgina who had asked if I could polish it. The same principles apply if you are polishing any piece of coated aluminum.

The first thing to do is strip the coating (powder coating or clear coating) You can use an automotive aircraft stripper, just spray it on (in a well ventilated area) and let it dwell for 15-30 minutes, until the finish bubbles up.

Use a fine brush (old tooth brush) to agitate any stubborn areas where the clear coat wants to stick. Then use a plastic scrapper to remove the clear coat and wash each wheel thoroughly.

Now you will have exposed the aluminum for polishing. If your aluminum has deep gouges or texture you will want to remove those by wet sanding each; starting with 220 grit and moving up to 1000 grit before polishing. Sanding them is extremely time consuming because you want to make sure you remove all of the previous sanding marks (from the rougher grit) before moving to the next finer grit.

You can accomplish this by cross-hatching. Sanding is one direction with say 220 grit, then sand in the opposite direction (left-to-right, then up-to-down) with say 400 grit until you no longer see the 220 grit marks, and repeat finer and finer.

When it comes time to polish the wheel to a super high luster (or remove the sanding marks) you are going to need an aluminum compound (similar to a compound for paint in principle), and then follow it up with an aluminum (fine cut) polish.

The Blackfire Aluminum Polishing Kit was (to my knowledge) the first boutique line of aluminum polishes that delivers professional results to the end-user. It is an idea that has been replicated (although perhaps not equaled).

You will need to have skill with a machine polisher how ever to use it.
Here is a link to the system and directions at out store: BLACKFIRE Aluminum Polishing System.

Here is a coolant tank from a Ferrari (that is actually a much cheaper casting of aluminum and much harder to polish and make look good).

1-2.jpg


The first step was using an aircraft stripper to remove the black powder coat (or in your case the factory clear). You can pick this up at just about any automotive supply store (Pepboys, Autozone, etc).

1-1-1.jpg


1-4.jpg


1-6.jpg


2-3.jpg


After removing all of the coating I could see that the casting was in terrible shape: factory casting scratches, texture, and deep cuts everywhere!

3-4.jpg


4-2.jpg


I tried polishing a test spot to see how the results would turn out.
The amount of gloss I was able to get from the Blackfire Polishing System was impressive and only took minutes.

5-2.jpg


However a cropped area of the photo shows that there are still a lot of these very deep (you stick the tip of a pencil into them) scratches that meant I had to sand the tank. If your wheels are not heavily scratched (or have texture) you can go right to polishing!

6-2.jpg


The right side of the tank has been sanded to 1000 grit, the rest to 400 grit. You can see the uniformity in the sanding marks (cross-hatching). I did sand a couple areas to 3000 grit, but the Blackfire Aluminum Compound is so strong that it made no difference in the outcome.

7-1.jpg


In this picture the edge of the tank (reflecting the horse) has been polished with just the compound, the rest of the tank is just sanded.

8.jpg


On this piece I found it easier to use a Porter Cable 7242XP (DA) Polisher and 4 inch pads. I used a Lake Country 4 inch High Gloss Yellow Pad with the Blackfire Aluminum Compound. I worked at Speed 5 with firm pressure until the aluminum was really bleeding black and the polish started to become opaque. I pays to clean the pad frequently by pressing it against a cotton towel and turning it on.

Then I followed with Blackfire Fine Cut Aluminum Polish (step two) with a Lake Country 4 inch H20 Tangerine pad, starting at step 5 then slowing to step 3 when the polish began to breakdown/dry up. Again firm pressure.

The final step was Blackfire Wet Diamond Aluminum Show Polish on a 4 inch Lake Country Hi Gloss White Pad, speed 4 with moderate pressure until almost clear.

After cleaning thoroughly I used Blackfire Wet Diamond All-Metal Sealant to lock in the shine with out the use of solvents that can dull the highly polished surface.

The results....

10.jpg


11.jpg


13.jpg


14.jpg


You can achieve a true mirror like finish on your wheels with our kit, no doubt, but it will take a little bit of time and patience ... but be warned... Polishing aluminum (and stainless) is addictive, my wife hasn't forgiven me for what I have down to our refrigerator and appliances in our kitchen :(
 
Jaw dropping results on the tank, Todd.

Been eyeing them Blackfire metal compounds and polishes :devil:
 
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