Accumulator
Well-known member
My BHBs are all kinda old, and I was ordering from TOL anyhow, so I decided to treat myself to a new pair of the TOL BHBs. I unpacked them today and decided to CD test my various BHBs (always a good idea to periodically test wash/dry media). VERY long-winded review follows..
Test procedure:
BHB prep- all BHBs were soaked for a few minutes in a bucket of shampoo mix (Griot's Car Wash).
Test material- data sides of some freebie CDs. CDs were dunked in the wash solution prior to testing and blown dry prior to inspection. I used the same CD for the first round of tests, and the sequence of no, no, yes/light, yes/significant marring results was fortunate as all BHBs were initially tested with the same CD. (I then did more testing with additional CDs which might have varied in susceptibility to marring.)
Inspection conditions: incandescent lighting in an otherwise dimly illuminated shop, 5X magnified optical visor.
BHBs tested:
1) wooden handled BHB from BHMA, about 20 years old
2) Plastic handled BHBs (two) from Griot's, about six years old
3) Plastic handled BHBs (two) from AutoGeek (their regular, rectangular model), about three years old
4) wooden handled BHB (only tested one of two) from TOL, brand new
Results:
1) BHMA: YES light occasional marring. This marring was consistent and repeatable.
I attribute it to the bristles being permanently bent over to one side. I suspect that the sides of the bristles contact the CD (as opposed to the bristle tips). When I grabbed some bristles, held them straight, and retested, there was no marring. Guess it's time to retire my long-time favorite
2) Griot's: NO marring from either BHB when used carefully, very light marring when used with more pressure than I prefer (again, I suspect it came from the sides of the bristles). This marring was sporadic and not uniformly repeatable.
These are my new go-to BHBs (but see caveat below in SUMMARY).
3) AutoGeek: NO marring from either BHB when used carefully, very light marring when used with excessive pressure as per above (but see caveat in SUMMARY). Again, this marring was sporadic and not uniformly repeatable when the BHBs were used carefully.
4) TOL: YES significant, consistent repeatable marring even when used carefully.
Upon inspection under magnification, I noticed that (at least) two bristle tips were not flagged, but rather had hard, rounded tips that looked almost melted. I attribute the marring to these bristles. None of the other BHBs tested had this sort of bristle tips, at least not that I noticed.
I did not test my other new TOL BHB as I plan to return both of them and I figure there's no need to break open the packaging of a product I intend to return anyhow.
SUMMARY:
BHMA: My old BHMA BHB would probably still be OK if its bristles hadn't become permanently bent over. I suspect this bending came from many years of use but it pays to dry BHBs in a manner that the bristles are not bent to the side but rather allowed to be straight. I used to drill a small hole in each end of the handle and then hang the BHB from a wire coat hanger (cut a section out of the base of the hanger's triangle, leaving just enough of the base on each side of the corners to fit into the holes in the handle). I might go back to drying my BHBs this way.
Note that I did get an awful lot of use out of this thing, I only noticed the bent-over bristles recently so it was good for well over a dozen years of hard use. I suspect that this explains the recent mystery-marring on the S8 that I had to polish out.
GRIOT'S: My Griot's BHBs are obviously worn, they've been used a lot. I was concerned that wear to the flagging on the tips of the bristles might have rendered them unsafe, but this does not appear to be the case. Despite their disconcerting appearance, they appear to be safe and I haven't noticed any marring when they're used with the foamgun and very light pressure. It's not too difficult to use these BHBs with light pressure, but it's not as easy as with the AutoGeek ones.
Of the BHBs tested, this one gets my strongest recommendation and I plan to get another pair of them sometime (which I will also test).
CAVEAT: These BHBs were sent in exchange for a pair that I returned to Griot's. The returned ones had bristles contaminated with the adhesive used to mount them in the handle. Always inspect, or better yet CD-test your wash/dry media! Griot's customer service rep was helpful and friendly, and even said that he would personally inspect the replacement BHBs prior to sending them.
AUTOGEEK: These BHBs are safe if used properly, but then they might be too gentle to clean the vehicle. The long bristles deflect so easily that they can't dislodge many types of contamination. This leads to a more important caveat: it's easy *and tempting* to apply too much pressure in an effort to affect better cleaning. This causes the sides of the bristles to contact the surface being washed resulting in potential marring. I attribute the random light marring I observed to this. If you use these BHBs very carefully, to clean a surface that does not require any significant mechanical agitation, then they should perform OK and it's pretty easy to use them in this very gentle manner. But when used on a normally dirty vehicle I find that they leave too much dirt behind when used gently and that it's just too easy and tempting to apply too much pressure in an attempt to make them clean more effectively.
Clarification- it's easy to use the AG BHBs *both* too aggressively and, conversely, too gently! This isn't really a contradiction because different techniques are employed in each case. Holding the BHB so that the long bristles are barely touching the paint isn't very difficult, but you do have to *consciously work at* doing it that way. I somehow find it takes more concentrated effort than I need to employ with BHBs having shorter bristles.
I can't really recommend these BHBs over the Griot's ones, but they could still be perfect for somebody else.
TOL: The marring from the TOL BHB made it unacceptable to me, even though it was very light. I'm certain that the (very few) unusual bristle tips described above were responsible and it could very well be that they were utterly anomalous; the second BHB, which I did not test, might have been fine and every other TOL BHB might be fine.
Still, this appeared to be a very basic quality control issue related to the bristles themselves, which I viewed as different from the adhesive contamination I saw on the earlier set of Griot's brushes. IMO bristles are being used that area simply not acceptable.
Could I have cut out the bad bristles and had a good BHB? Probably. Could all other TOL BHBs be perfectly OK? Sure. The rest of the bristles seemed fine and the brush appeared to be of overall very high quality.
I contacted TOL about returning the two BHBs for a refund and, as expected, there will be no problem. I really hate to badmouth *ANY* product from TOL as I've long enjoyed doing business with Irene and her employees. I will certainly continue to give them my business whenever possible, but I won't be using their BHBs.
I would welcome any differing observations, as I believe that seemingly identical individual BHBs can vary greatly. The above is merely a single snapshot of what happened today, with those particular BHBs.
UPDATE/ADDITION:
Been meaning to do this for a while...
CMA/Proper Autocare BHB: IIRC these are made by Braun, a big maker of BHBs. These BHBs passed the CD-test with flying colors, and I thought I'd found my new favorites. The bristles were just the right length and stiff/soft-ness and I even liked the feel of the wood handle. Perfection, at least at first blush....
But, sigh, there ended up being a problem related to excess adhesive. Said adhesive (used to mount the bristles in the handle) had contaminated the bases of the bristles. I spotted it during my initial inspection, but hey, "no problem" I thought, as I don't let that part of the bristles touch the paint anyhow; trouble was, the adhesive started to flake off as the bristles were gently flexed (over and over) during use. (This took a good many washes, during which they BHBs performed perfectly.) Eventually, the tiny bits of hard adhesive started working their way down the bristles and I started to worry about the chance that they'd cause marring. Again, I figured "no problem, I'll just clean the stuff off/out of the bristles"...but that just didn't work out. There was too much of it and it would be firmly adhered to the bristles right up until it flaked off. Man was I unhappy, other than that issue I *REALLY* liked these BHBs!
I contacted Terry and Jan at CMA and explained what happened. Jan and I spoke at length about it over the phone and she understood why I couldn't continue to use these BHBs. I sent them back for a look-see and had high hopes that they could replace them with identical BHBs that didn't have the excess adhesive problem. No such luck; Jan got back to me and said that (to her disappointment), all their BHBs were the same way. We agreed that it might not be a problem for other people, but that it was certainly a major (potential) problem for *me*, so she refunded my money with no hard feelings on either side.
FWIW, we also discussed BHBs in general, and she said that there are currently only a few companies making them. So, IMO if you find a BHB that meets all your criteria, perhaps you oughta buy a few of them while they're available. I might look into some new ones from Griot's, and if I do (and/or if I try some other ones) I'll report back with another update. Until then I'll continue to use my old Griot's ones and, sometimes, my almost-too-soft AutoGeek ones, and I'll continue to CD-test them from time to time to avoid nasty surprises.
Test procedure:
BHB prep- all BHBs were soaked for a few minutes in a bucket of shampoo mix (Griot's Car Wash).
Test material- data sides of some freebie CDs. CDs were dunked in the wash solution prior to testing and blown dry prior to inspection. I used the same CD for the first round of tests, and the sequence of no, no, yes/light, yes/significant marring results was fortunate as all BHBs were initially tested with the same CD. (I then did more testing with additional CDs which might have varied in susceptibility to marring.)
Inspection conditions: incandescent lighting in an otherwise dimly illuminated shop, 5X magnified optical visor.
BHBs tested:
1) wooden handled BHB from BHMA, about 20 years old
2) Plastic handled BHBs (two) from Griot's, about six years old
3) Plastic handled BHBs (two) from AutoGeek (their regular, rectangular model), about three years old
4) wooden handled BHB (only tested one of two) from TOL, brand new
Results:
1) BHMA: YES light occasional marring. This marring was consistent and repeatable.
I attribute it to the bristles being permanently bent over to one side. I suspect that the sides of the bristles contact the CD (as opposed to the bristle tips). When I grabbed some bristles, held them straight, and retested, there was no marring. Guess it's time to retire my long-time favorite
2) Griot's: NO marring from either BHB when used carefully, very light marring when used with more pressure than I prefer (again, I suspect it came from the sides of the bristles). This marring was sporadic and not uniformly repeatable.
These are my new go-to BHBs (but see caveat below in SUMMARY).
3) AutoGeek: NO marring from either BHB when used carefully, very light marring when used with excessive pressure as per above (but see caveat in SUMMARY). Again, this marring was sporadic and not uniformly repeatable when the BHBs were used carefully.
4) TOL: YES significant, consistent repeatable marring even when used carefully.
Upon inspection under magnification, I noticed that (at least) two bristle tips were not flagged, but rather had hard, rounded tips that looked almost melted. I attribute the marring to these bristles. None of the other BHBs tested had this sort of bristle tips, at least not that I noticed.
I did not test my other new TOL BHB as I plan to return both of them and I figure there's no need to break open the packaging of a product I intend to return anyhow.
SUMMARY:
BHMA: My old BHMA BHB would probably still be OK if its bristles hadn't become permanently bent over. I suspect this bending came from many years of use but it pays to dry BHBs in a manner that the bristles are not bent to the side but rather allowed to be straight. I used to drill a small hole in each end of the handle and then hang the BHB from a wire coat hanger (cut a section out of the base of the hanger's triangle, leaving just enough of the base on each side of the corners to fit into the holes in the handle). I might go back to drying my BHBs this way.
Note that I did get an awful lot of use out of this thing, I only noticed the bent-over bristles recently so it was good for well over a dozen years of hard use. I suspect that this explains the recent mystery-marring on the S8 that I had to polish out.
GRIOT'S: My Griot's BHBs are obviously worn, they've been used a lot. I was concerned that wear to the flagging on the tips of the bristles might have rendered them unsafe, but this does not appear to be the case. Despite their disconcerting appearance, they appear to be safe and I haven't noticed any marring when they're used with the foamgun and very light pressure. It's not too difficult to use these BHBs with light pressure, but it's not as easy as with the AutoGeek ones.
Of the BHBs tested, this one gets my strongest recommendation and I plan to get another pair of them sometime (which I will also test).
CAVEAT: These BHBs were sent in exchange for a pair that I returned to Griot's. The returned ones had bristles contaminated with the adhesive used to mount them in the handle. Always inspect, or better yet CD-test your wash/dry media! Griot's customer service rep was helpful and friendly, and even said that he would personally inspect the replacement BHBs prior to sending them.
AUTOGEEK: These BHBs are safe if used properly, but then they might be too gentle to clean the vehicle. The long bristles deflect so easily that they can't dislodge many types of contamination. This leads to a more important caveat: it's easy *and tempting* to apply too much pressure in an effort to affect better cleaning. This causes the sides of the bristles to contact the surface being washed resulting in potential marring. I attribute the random light marring I observed to this. If you use these BHBs very carefully, to clean a surface that does not require any significant mechanical agitation, then they should perform OK and it's pretty easy to use them in this very gentle manner. But when used on a normally dirty vehicle I find that they leave too much dirt behind when used gently and that it's just too easy and tempting to apply too much pressure in an attempt to make them clean more effectively.
Clarification- it's easy to use the AG BHBs *both* too aggressively and, conversely, too gently! This isn't really a contradiction because different techniques are employed in each case. Holding the BHB so that the long bristles are barely touching the paint isn't very difficult, but you do have to *consciously work at* doing it that way. I somehow find it takes more concentrated effort than I need to employ with BHBs having shorter bristles.
I can't really recommend these BHBs over the Griot's ones, but they could still be perfect for somebody else.
TOL: The marring from the TOL BHB made it unacceptable to me, even though it was very light. I'm certain that the (very few) unusual bristle tips described above were responsible and it could very well be that they were utterly anomalous; the second BHB, which I did not test, might have been fine and every other TOL BHB might be fine.
Still, this appeared to be a very basic quality control issue related to the bristles themselves, which I viewed as different from the adhesive contamination I saw on the earlier set of Griot's brushes. IMO bristles are being used that area simply not acceptable.
Could I have cut out the bad bristles and had a good BHB? Probably. Could all other TOL BHBs be perfectly OK? Sure. The rest of the bristles seemed fine and the brush appeared to be of overall very high quality.
I contacted TOL about returning the two BHBs for a refund and, as expected, there will be no problem. I really hate to badmouth *ANY* product from TOL as I've long enjoyed doing business with Irene and her employees. I will certainly continue to give them my business whenever possible, but I won't be using their BHBs.
I would welcome any differing observations, as I believe that seemingly identical individual BHBs can vary greatly. The above is merely a single snapshot of what happened today, with those particular BHBs.
UPDATE/ADDITION:
Been meaning to do this for a while...
CMA/Proper Autocare BHB: IIRC these are made by Braun, a big maker of BHBs. These BHBs passed the CD-test with flying colors, and I thought I'd found my new favorites. The bristles were just the right length and stiff/soft-ness and I even liked the feel of the wood handle. Perfection, at least at first blush....
But, sigh, there ended up being a problem related to excess adhesive. Said adhesive (used to mount the bristles in the handle) had contaminated the bases of the bristles. I spotted it during my initial inspection, but hey, "no problem" I thought, as I don't let that part of the bristles touch the paint anyhow; trouble was, the adhesive started to flake off as the bristles were gently flexed (over and over) during use. (This took a good many washes, during which they BHBs performed perfectly.) Eventually, the tiny bits of hard adhesive started working their way down the bristles and I started to worry about the chance that they'd cause marring. Again, I figured "no problem, I'll just clean the stuff off/out of the bristles"...but that just didn't work out. There was too much of it and it would be firmly adhered to the bristles right up until it flaked off. Man was I unhappy, other than that issue I *REALLY* liked these BHBs!
I contacted Terry and Jan at CMA and explained what happened. Jan and I spoke at length about it over the phone and she understood why I couldn't continue to use these BHBs. I sent them back for a look-see and had high hopes that they could replace them with identical BHBs that didn't have the excess adhesive problem. No such luck; Jan got back to me and said that (to her disappointment), all their BHBs were the same way. We agreed that it might not be a problem for other people, but that it was certainly a major (potential) problem for *me*, so she refunded my money with no hard feelings on either side.
FWIW, we also discussed BHBs in general, and she said that there are currently only a few companies making them. So, IMO if you find a BHB that meets all your criteria, perhaps you oughta buy a few of them while they're available. I might look into some new ones from Griot's, and if I do (and/or if I try some other ones) I'll report back with another update. Until then I'll continue to use my old Griot's ones and, sometimes, my almost-too-soft AutoGeek ones, and I'll continue to CD-test them from time to time to avoid nasty surprises.
Thanks.
Yeah, I'll post my findings whenever I try a new BHB.
But just for the sake of discussion:
that your BHB mars but your mitts don't :nixweiss Same dirt, so the only variable that's different is the wash media...well, and how you use it :think: Doesn't sound like you were pressing hard enough with the BHB to bend the bristles over though. Guess this might remain a mystery, but I would be interested in how that BHB CD-tests. Could be another case of individual variation..with all the bristles in every BHB, there are a lot of tiny things that can go wrong with these brushes.
