Best Finishing Polish for SIP/Orange on Ceramiclear and PC pad Question

L

lostdaytomorrow

New member
What's the best Menzerna finishing polish for a 2-step process after using SIP/Orange on a Mercury Metallic Red C6 Vette. I have some IP and Final Polish but I'm thinking the 106FA or the FPII or the PO85rd might be a better choice than the Final Polish because it has a cut/gloss rating of 3/4 which seems on the high side.



I will of course be using a white pad to apply this finishing polish and this is all being done on a 7424.



Are these ratings a good way to know which polish to use or for marketing purposes?



Just as an aside question, what's the best pad on the 7424 to appy KAIO and Souveran Paste? Of course I can do them both my hand with the small yellow foam pad put which pad on the PC is a good choice for an AIO and a paste wax? Black, Blue, or Red?



Thanks for the help.
 
I've used Final Polish with a white pad on Lexus paint with good results. SInce you have the Final Polish, I would suggest you try that first and if you don't like it, you can pick up some 85rd - or any of the 1,000 other recommendations you will get.
 
IMO,



For hard clears: proceed to PO85RD. nice gloss/shimmer!

For soft clears: 106FF and then PO85RD.



I always use LC white foam pad (spritzed with a little QD) on 7424 to apply Klasse AIO.

No problems at all. LC's black foam pad is fine too...but not enough cleaning power sometimes.
 
lostdaytomorrow said:
What's the best Menzerna finishing polish for a 2-step process after using SIP/Orange on a Mercury Metallic Red C6 Vette. I have some IP and Final Polish but I'm thinking the 106FA or the FPII or the PO85rd might be a better choice than the Final Polish because it has a cut/gloss rating of 3/4 which seems on the high side.



I will of course be using a white pad to apply this finishing polish and this is all being done on a 7424.
Click to expand...



I wouldn't go from SIP/orange to a final polish. I would use 106FF/FA on a white and then go to 85rd on a blue pad. Vette clears are hard, so 85rd would be a better choice than 87mc. This would yield the best results.



You can try the products that you already have and you may achieve a finish that you are happy with.
 
blk45 said:
I wouldn't go from SIP/orange to a final polish. I would use 106FF/FA on a white and then go to 85rd on a blue pad. Vette clears are hard, so 85rd would be a better choice than 87mc. This would yield the best results.



You can try the products that you already have and you may achieve a finish that you are happy with.
Click to expand...



I agree. SIP/orange, 106FA/white and 85RD/gray or blue. Souveran is probally easier to apply by hand than PC. It is a wipe on wipe off method. One panel at a time. It goes on and off very easy.



You could also try the power finish 203 with a white pad. Then the 106FA with a gray. If you wanted to try a 2 step. How bad is your paint?
 
lostdaytomorrow- On hard clear 1Z High Gloss works well. You can use it with a 4" polishing pad as a follow-up to medium aggressive polishing and also with a finishing pad for burnishing/jeweling.



Yeah, KAIO works great via PC and which pad is sorta just personal preference on paint like yours. On hard clear like yours you can use most polishing pads (more open/porous texture works well with KAIO IME) and I like the Griot's orange polishing pad (*VERY* different from the usual orange light cut pads, this isn't a typical "orange pad"!). Note that most polishing pads have zero functional cut when used damp with KAIO, so it seldom really matters except on soft paint.



Much as I like doing stuff by machine, I do Souveran by hand. But when applying paste waxes by machine you can use whichever "finishing" pad you like; they're all zero cut (functionally speaking) so it's not like one or another will mess up your paint.
 
Thanks very much for all the input. I am thinking I'll pick up some 85rd and 106fa on my next order.



So what do most people use to apply the KAIO, usually by hand or on a machine and which pad to most use if using the machine? The KAIO will be used as a sealant underneath the Souveran if that makes any difference. How long does the KAIO need to cure before I apply the Paste Souveran by hand?



Also, one thing I can't find is if the gray and black LC pads are the same or not? The brochure I got with my pads doesn't even list a black pad in their list.



The paint is very bad with numerous RIDS, cobwebs, and some hologramming as well.
 
lostdaytomorrow said:
So what do most people use to apply the KAIO, usually by hand or on a machine and which pad to most use if using the machine?
Click to expand...



I suspect your over-thinking this. The KAIO is functionally nonabrasive on most paint (let alone hard stuff like yours). So are most polishing pads. Use whatever you like but make sure it doesn't get caked/clogged/loaded with product (more likely with less-porous pads).



The KAIO will be used as a sealant underneath the Souveran if that makes any difference. How long does the KAIO need to cure before I apply the Paste Souveran by hand?
Click to expand...



Don't expect the KAIO to do much of any sealing. Despite the ad-copy it's really just a good paint cleaner. The minimal amount of stuff it leaves behind isn't enough to give a second thought to (there are other products like this that *do* leave an appreciable amount of stuff behind). I'd go right ahead and apply the Souveran, but don't expect any better durability/protection that you'd get with Souveran alone.

Also, one thing I can't find is if the gray and black LC pads are the same or not? The brochure I got with my pads doesn't even list a black pad in their list.
Click to expand...



AFAIK people just use "black" or "gray" interchangeably. Some of mine look darker/lighter so I guess it's understandable.



The paint is very bad with numerous RIDS, cobwebs, and some hologramming as well.
Click to expand...



Concentrate on doing the correction, the KAIO and Souveran will be easy as can be by comparison. I used Souveran on my last 'vette (even the underneath) but *man* did I have to redo it frequently.
 
so what is the big difference between po87 and po85?



is there really a need to get both?



I guess I want to make my first Menzerna purchase coming up here, and I am going to be detailing some friends cars.. and mine.. cars range from a 07 MB CLS 550, to a Black 04 Honda Accord Coupe, to my 05 Nissan Altima SE-R.. kinda want to get a polish "regime" that will work on all of them.



I have a PC 7424, 2 White 2 Black and 1 blue LC CCS pads.. planning on getting atleast 1 yellow, probably 2-3 Orange, and one more White.



Any thoughts on getting the above pads in 5.5 instead of 6.5? I have detailed many cars in the past but never with a machine.
 
87mc is not designed for ceramic clears, 85rd is. 85rd can be used for both types of paint though.
 
blk45 said:
87mc is not designed for ceramic clears, 85rd is. 85rd can be used for both types of paint though.
Click to expand...



so basically 85rd is the same thing yet does more?



What is the real difference between SIP and Intensive Polish then? Is SIP just better with ceramic clears?



Is there any reason NOT to get the ceramic clear ones? I mean I'll probably only ever do 1 or 2 cars that have the ceramiclear.. just wondering if there is any reason to get 106FA over FF.. ? maybe im getting that screwed up.. not sure.



So basically, the essentials for menz are..



power gloss for heavy compounding?

203 for med heavy

SIP for medium cut

106 for light cut

85/87 for extremely light cut/jeweling?
 
Accumulator said:
I suspect your over-thinking this. The KAIO is functionally nonabrasive on most paint (let alone hard stuff like yours). So are most polishing pads. Use whatever you like but make sure it doesn't get caked/clogged/loaded with product (more likely with less-porous pads).







Don't expect the KAIO to do much of any sealing. Despite the ad-copy it's really just a good paint cleaner. The minimal amount of stuff it leaves behind isn't enough to give a second thought to (there are other products like this that *do* leave an appreciable amount of stuff behind). I'd go right ahead and apply the Souveran, but don't expect any better durability/protection that you'd get with Souveran alone.





AFAIK people just use "black" or "gray" interchangeably. Some of mine look darker/lighter so I guess it's understandable.







Concentrate on doing the correction, the KAIO and Souveran will be easy as can be by comparison. I used Souveran on my last 'vette (even the underneath) but *man* did I have to redo it frequently.
Click to expand...

Accumulator, I am very fond of your opinions on this board and would really like to hear your suggestion to me for a better sealant under my Souveran than the KAIO. I got the suggestion from reading a lot of Pro Before and Afters, and a lot of Click and Brags, so please let me know what a better sealant would be under the Souveran in order to keep my paint protected because I don't want to have to re-apply the Souveran every month or so to keep protection. Thank you very much for your help to me so far, I sincerely appreciate it.
 
cashishift- Abrasives made for ceramic/etc. clear work fine on regular paint, they just cut faster/more. You'll find there's a huge difference between how different size pads do correction; *no way* I'd try to do that Benz of yours with any cutting pad larger than 4". I don't even do correction on my Mazda minivan with larger pads, and it has nice, medium-soft clear.



Some of us have had flaws "come back" after using 106FF via PC, happened on my DenaliXL after a *VERY* good pro, and member here, did it. He and I were both pretty surprised at the way the flaws reappeared and after I finally corrected it (for real), well...no way I'd use 106FF.



lostdaytomorrow said:
Accumulator, I am very fond of your opinions on this board and would really like to hear your suggestion to me for a better sealant under my Souveran than the KAIO...to keep my paint protected because I don't want to have to re-apply the Souveran every month or so to keep protection..
Click to expand...



Heh heh, it seems like a lot of my advice to you might fall under the heading "you don't really want to hear this but..." so I'm glad you're finding some of it useful.



No matter *what* you put under the Souveran, the Souveran is gonna be dead pretty fast. Up to some point you can just reapply it, but after a while it leaves "dead wax" artifacts behind and things just aren't as swell as they used to be. No, it's not enough of a problem to make me use something else on my Jag, but I *did* end up thinking it wasn't the right approach for my 'vette or other drivers (I used Souveran on a white station wagon for years so I do know from using it on daily drivers ;) ). Heh heh, this is more of that "advice you probably don't want to hear", huh? Sorry... :o



Anyhow, if you use a durable sealant you might be able to gently clay with something like Sonus green Ultra-fine clay to keep things cleaned up; the idea being to clean off the remnants of the old/dead Souveran without stripping off all of the sealant.



Problem for me is to come up with a good sealant for you to use this way...these days I just choose wax or sealant as opposed to layering the two on the same vehicle. Let's see...



If it were *mine* I'd use some kind of AIO after the final polishing. I'd probably go with Autoglym SRP or Zaino AIO but if you already have the KAIO you can just use that.



Then apply the real sealant.



KSG is what I use on my minivan, but it's kinda a PIA so you might not want to go that route.



Some people would steer you towards Zaino Z2.



If it were mine I'd apply a few coats/layers of FK1000P, using their FK425 QD to moisten the applicator pad. You just *might* like how the FK1000P looks/feels so well that you'll skip the Souveran, but if you *do* use the Souveran over top of it for greater depth/etc. I think you could just use the Sonus green clay after every fourth/fifth Souveran application and still end up having some FK1000P left on there. Before the whole thing needs redone it oughta be time for another full detail anyhow.



FWIW, on the Jag I use Autoglym SRP topped with Souveran and I redo the SRP about every fourth time I redo the Souveran. The SRP is easy enough to use that I don't mind doing it that way, but then again the Jag is a garage-queen.
 
Accumulator said:
Some of us have had flaws "come back" after using 106FF via PC, happened on my DenaliXL after a *VERY* good pro, and member here, did it. He and I were both pretty surprised at the way the flaws reappeared and after I finally corrected it (for real), well...no way I'd use 106FF.







Anyhow, if you use a durable sealant you might be able to gently clay with something like Sonus green Ultra-fine clay to keep things cleaned up; the idea being to clean off the remnants of the old/dead Souveran without stripping off all of the sealant.



Problem for me is to come up with a good sealant for you to use this way...these days I just choose wax or sealant as opposed to layering the two on the same vehicle. Let's see...



If it were *mine* I'd use some kind of AIO after the final polishing. I'd probably go with Autoglym SRP or Zaino AIO but if you already have the KAIO you can just use that.



Then apply the real sealant.



KSG is what I use on my minivan, but it's kinda a PIA so you might not want to go that route.



Some people would steer you towards Zaino Z2.



If it were mine I'd apply a few coats/layers of FK1000P, using their FK425 QD to moisten the applicator pad. You just *might* like how the FK1000P looks/feels so well that you'll skip the Souveran, but if you *do* use the Souveran over top of it for greater depth/etc. I think you could just use the Sonus green clay after every fourth/fifth Souveran application and still end up having some FK1000P left on there. Before the whole thing needs redone it oughta be time for another full detail anyhow.
Click to expand...

Some of that is definitely under the "don't want to hear this" category, but I very much appreciate your helpfulness to me and am glad you are helping me out. The C6 is my daily in the warmer months so I'm thinking I'll be re-applying the Souveran every 6th to 7th wash (I wash 2x/week), so about ever 3 weeks for the Souveran. I will then clay after re-applying it a few times and then every few months just wash off all the sealant and wax with Dawn and re-apply the Sealant and Souveran once again.



I'll be sure to order some FK1000P with my next order of pads and Menzerna stuff (the 85rd and 106FA for finishing up the SIP).



Glossiness/wetness is my first priority and the paint being sealed and protected is my second.



So I will be doing this process on my C6:



Dawn Wash

Clay

Wash

Polish (SIP/LCC Orange, then 106FA/white, then 85rd/blue)

IPA wipedown

FK1000

Souveran



Obviously all the other good stuff (tires/wheels/wheel wells and all that will be in the wash step at the beginning)



Does this look like a sound process on the hard Vette clear?
 
lostdaytomorrow- That oughta work OK.



I never find Dawn to work all that well at stripping tough LSPs and I think I'd plan to use some kind of paint cleaner instead. Stuff like AIO/SRP is easy enough to use that it shouldn't be a huge PIA. Just wait and see how it goes after you try (VERY GENTLY) claying with the Sonus green.



Also along those lines, I hardly ever do the alcohol wipedowns that others like. I really don't think it'll be necessary after that 85rd/blue. After I do my final polishing I just go directly to my AIO or my LSP.



Guess we've come around full-circle to where I'm back to thinking how the correction is gonna be challenging and all this LSP/etc. stuff will be a breeze no matter how you do it.



IF that SIP doesn't do correction to your satisfaction, get some M105 ;)



And I still think you just might like the FK1000P all by itself. You oughta put 3-4 layers on before topping (and those layers might give some pretty amazing durability) and the look changes a bit as you layer. Some people have found it even changes after it cures; the car looks better a day or two after applying the FK1000P than it did initially. You just never know how anything will look to you until you try it on *your* paint and see it with *your eyes ;)
 
Thank you Accumulator for the guidance. I will keep all of that in mind. How much time do you let the FK1000 cure between coats and is it an easy on/off per panel, or do I do the whole care and then wipe off?



Also, are you suggesting to just skip the dawn wash and use the KAIO after a normal wash to get off all previous LSP's and such on the paint? Would this work fine with the small yellow foam pad to apply the KAIO?







I have done all of my supplies shopping at CG and Autogeek in the past. Autogeek doesn't seem to care the Finish Kare products, does anyone have a recommendation on what website to use to purchase the FK1000 and also some 5.5" LCC pads as well.
 
lostdaytomorrow said:
How much time do you let the FK1000 cure between coats and is it an easy on/off per panel, or do I do the whole care and then wipe off?
Click to expand...



For all my raving about the stuff, I've yet to use it on anything except numerous types of wheels (!), but it seems like you can layer it within a few hours (which is also what Tory at FK has said IIRC). But that sorta flies in the face of how people think it changes as it cures over a longer period, so I really don't know :nixweiss



Do the whole vehicle and then go back to wipe it off. When it passes the finger-swipe test (wipes off with no smearing), it's ready to buff off.



I'd do a second coat that day and then another one after the next wash.



..are you suggesting to just skip the dawn wash and use the KAIO after a normal wash to get off all previous LSP's and such on the paint? Would this work fine with the small yellow foam pad to apply the KAIO?
Click to expand...



Yeah, though I'd do it via PC to make it easier.

..does anyone have a recommendation on what website to use to purchase the FK1000 and also some 5.5" LCC pads as well.
Click to expand...



See if Aloha & Welcome to Our Oasis for All Your Auto Detailing, Auto Detailing Supplies, Auto Detailing Equipment, Auto Detailing Products, & Auto Detailing Accessories for all your Automobile Detailing has what you need, or else order the FK1000P straight from Finish Kare, Automotive, Marine, Aerospace, Mold Release Agents, Paint Contamination
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top