Autopia Community Support

B

Bobby G

New member
Dear Autopians,



The cost to run Autopia for the past 12 months was a staggering $39,000. This figure does not include my personal time or the time put into the community by our Moderator team. It also does not take into account the upgrade costs we have deferred until later this year.



Reviewing our outbound link traffic (the traffic we sent to other sites), I discovered that the Autopia community delivered just under 900,000 page views to other websites. Our logs revealed more than 100 commercial websites that directly benefited from you clicking on links within the threads and posts of Autopia.org. To fairly report my findings, my own business was the beneficiary of approximately 85,000 of those outbound page views (into http://autopia-carcare.com).



My analysis tells me that Autopia.org influenced between $2,500,000 and $4,000,000 in direct sales in the last year (based on the ratio of TPS direct sales from in-bound clicks to the total number of clicks delivered). All of this benefit was largely funded by The Perfect Shine, LLC (the corporate owner of Autopia.org).



It is now time for all those commercial entities that benefit from the Autopia.org community to compensate the community for the gains they enjoy. Compensation, taken in the form of advertising, will help pay for:



1. Computer hardware and software

2. Technical support and annual licenses

3. Network connectivity and bandwidth

4. Moderator benefits

5. Support staff



In return for their advertising dollar, The Perfect Shine, LLC (TPS) proposes to offer the following benefits to Autopia.org sponsors:



1. Access to Autopia.org community members

2. A listing in the sponsor directory

3. A listing in the Web Links database



For additional fees, TPS will offer premium sponsors enhanced opportunities for marketing and direct access to community members, including:



1. Placement of banner or text advertisements

2. Links and text ads on the Autopia Reviews system

3. A dedicated forum area for their business

4. The ability to display product review results on their web pages



In order to offer the most benefit where it belongs (with the paying sponsors), we will be asking vendors who are not sponsoring the community to limit their use of the community to reading posts.



Sponsor packages will be very affordable, starting as low as $50 per month. All vendors and manufacturers who received $6,000 or more in direct or indirect sales from Autopia.org in 2004 will benefit from this opportunity.



This change on Autopia.org is being affected so that the community can continue to grow and remain solvent. This change will not impact the discussions you (non-vending members) may have, or your ability to link to your favorite resources. However, we will ask that you please try to support the vendors who support Autopia.org.



Sponsor packages will be available later this week. We will begin changing the status of known vendors to âہ“Supporting Vendorâ€Â� and âہ“Non-Supporting Vendorâ€Â� next week.



As a competing vendor (TPS and its affiliated stores) in the Autopia.org community, TPS will hold itself to the same standards we have set for the rest of the community. We will make any and all marketing opportunities that we provide for ourselves available to our competitors at competitive prices (e.g., our cost to deliver a customer/sale will be competitive with Google). TPS is committed to keeping Autopia.org an open platform for the discussion of all topics, products and companies related to car detailing and the automotive appearance industry.



This change in our policy will directly benefit all members and will fairly distribute the cost of running Autopia.org to those who benefit from Autopia.org commerce. If you have any questions, I ask that you please contact me directly at [email protected]. I cannot answer questions regarding sponsorship in the public forum.



Regards,

David
 
That is only the "direct" sales, meaning purchases made when someone clicks on a link from within Autopia.org. The actual sales influenced by Autopia.org are MUCH higher.
 
I know this is my first post.

However I have been reading this forum for ages.

Another very large site (on a different topic) has members who give a small amount every year (20 dollers) its not mandatory nor do the people who do it get anything in return except for a small image under there username and avater.



I don't know how everyone would feel about this, however I personally have learnt a heck of a lot from all the users and its because of the owner that this has happend. So I personally would be willing to help support this place.
 
David, I really think user donations could help out too. Just a simple Paypal link and lots of us could donate $5-10 (times 20,000 members it adds up).
 
It wasn't long ago that members were contributing. Not really sure when and why it stopped though. I seem to recall it being $10 or so but I could be wrong.



David does bring up an interesting point. If our sales are generating that much revenue, then the Autopia community should be compensated for it by contributing to the site so that upgrades and costs of maintaining the site are covered by our direct sales.



Why should we be hit twice??? Personally, I don't mind contributing to the site but the mayor does bring up a valid perspective.
 
I think David's in a tough position. He supports the site through sales in his own business, sells ad space to competitors, and allows competitors to post (without spamming). It's not a situation I would want to be in, and from a business standpoint, he would probably be better off not allowing any links, recommendations of other products, competitors, etc. on the site, but of course, that would kill the community. It's a tough situation. I don't know that I would want to have to make the decisions he does. I guess ultimately, the members will decide with their wallet the direction Autopia goes. I personally haven't ordered anything form David, but will when I need something he carries just out of support. And honestly, I think he goes out of his way not to shove the store down our throats. I was trying to find it one time, and it actually took me a while to do so. Another site I am on, a tuner owns the site and you know it.
 
Thanks for the feedback on this issue. Here are my thoughts:



1. This is a large market. There are millions of car enthusiasts. That means there are plenty of sales to go around to all vendors who earn a good reputation. Those vendors will be welcome to advertise here, just as my own business will do.



2. The "community" is important to me because without it I would not be in this business. I am first and foremost a car crazy enthusiast. My business can roll over and die; the community will live on.



3. This community gives enough business to enough vendors that it [the community] should be supported by those who profit, not by the members. Members pay more than their fair share through product purchases.



In the past, I made the mistake of allowing "product partners" to have excessive access to the community. Some of the product partners (including 1Z, Meguiar's and some smaller players), used the community inappropriately. This mistake shall not happen again. No pay... no play.



I tried to make Autopia an open environment where enthusiasts and vendors could freely interact. Unfortunately, my generosity was mostly taken advantage of by those who found Autopia to be a target-rich environment to increase their sales. This is all well and good, but I was left holding the bill.



Where we are going is quite simple. Vendors will no longer have any opportunity to discuss their products in any forum area other than âہ“Ask the Manufacturerâ€Â� or a private forum area they specifically sponsor. Because the PM system has been grossly abused by sellers, vendors will not be permitted PM privileges. These simple steps will stop the unsupported selling within the community.



Now, the good news is what we will do for vendosr that will help their business:



1. A basic advertisement listing on the sponsor page will cost $50 per month. Thatâ€â„¢s cheap! My average paid click on Google is over $.50.



2. There will be multiple pay-for-performance banner placement opportunities. Most of the ad placement will be focused in the Autopia Reviews area, where it belongs. I am not going to garbage up the forum and make it look like a billboard.



3. Manufacturers (including the boutique labels) will be able to add their products in the Autopia Review database through an express inclusion service. We will eventually add most products, but express inclusion will allow the manufacturer to control the text and presentation. Why a paid express inclusion? Simpleâ€Â¦ I have to pay for our Content Secretaryâ€â„¢s time.



4. Advertisers will be able to include Autopia Review ratings on their websites. I just completed the programming for this and it works great. See http://www.autopia-carcare.com/p21-145.html, as an example. The Star rating and rating test are not part of my store page. This information is dynamically served to each product page in my store by the Autopia Review system. Paying advertisers are welcome to have this same advantage. All thatâ€â„¢s needed is a SKU number for each product. It was a lot of effort on my part to develop this technology.



5. I have a network of enthusiast car sites that want to publish our ads and content on their website. That means our content (product reviews, articles, etc.) have an even greater opportunity to assist advertisers. Hereâ€â„¢s an example of how our content is served to another community: http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy/detailing/detailing.php?location=index. I will make this same content delivery capability available to paying sponsors. Of course, the clicks within the content go to the sponsor.



âہ“Content is Kingâ€Â� on websites, and this community creates a lot of content. Every car enthusiast shares a common passion for having a nice looking car. Not everyone is as nuts about detailing as we Autopians, but all car enthusiasts need the basic information about how to detail correctly. Everyone wants to know what products work. That information is largely coming from us.



I track an amazing amount of information. The number of inbound page views we receive from other car communities is staggering. You can hardly find a car community on the internet that has not linked to Autopia at one time or another. I know, because I have all of the information recorded. We [Autopians] have a huge influence in the buying decisions of hundreds of thousands of car enthusiasts. That influence needs to be supported by the vendors who benefit from this community.
 
DavidB said:


Vendors will no longer have any opportunity to discuss their products in any forum area other than âہ“Ask the Manufacturerâ€Â� or a private forum area they specifically sponsor. Because the PM system has been grossly abused by sellers, vendors will not be permitted PM privileges.
Click to expand...



I'm confused about this. Above, you use the terms vendor, manufacturer, and seller. Do these mean different things to you? Once I asked a question in "Ask the Manufacturer" and was told by a mod that I had improperly posted as I was asking a vendor, who wasn't a manufacturer, but now you are saying that vendors will be able to use that forum.



And what does your statement above mean for people who have a side business, but are active members of the community? That they will no longer have PM privileges? Where will you draw the line between "basement vendors" and pro/semi-pro detailers who might also profit from this site? I see many posts looking for detailers in certain areas...if a detailer gets a job from one of these posts does he then become a "vendor" who must become a sponsor or have his forum access reduced?



I'm just thinking about many valuable contributors who could be construed as making a profit from this site and therefore losing them as regulars.
 
Mike,



I wrote that late last night so I was pretty tired and did not check for consistency in wording.



In the Autopia community, a "seller/vendor" is anyone who sells and profits from car care products and services. In general, this means anyone in the car care and detailing supply business.



If someone is a weekend warrior (selling out of their trunk once a month at a car event), I don't think of tthem as being in the business. It's a hobby.



Otherwise, anyone who sell products and profits by "networking" with members on Autopia should assist with the cost of operating the community. If a seller never makes it known to Autopia that they offer products, and they do not use the community for networking, they do not benefit.



db
 
David, it sounds like you've got a really good plan here. For me, every single car care product purchase I've made in the past year has been the direct result of reading this forum. No doubt this site generates a tremendous amount of revenue for vendors, and the benefit should work both ways.



--somedevil
 
i hang out on a few other forums and they all have paid sponsors and the sponsors are happy to be on the forum. what is so different here?
 
David,



I am glad to see the sponsors welcomed back. I like the sponsors for the following reasons:



1. More information - we hear about new products, behind the scenes activity, questions about what we the consumer want, insights into VOC issues, insights into why things cost a certain amount, insights into what the technology involves, etc.



2. Community - I think detailing is a nice cottage industry of sorts, having people from AutoGeek, Poorboys, PakShak, ExcelDetail, etc. just adds to the sense of community here and improves group dynamics.



3. Financial - I don't want to see David have to carry the full burden of running this site. I see nothing wrong with paid sponsors at all as long as opinions can flow freely here and ideally in a constructive fashion.



I'm looking forward to having these fine folks back. :)
 
Aloha David and fellow Autopians,



We as PakShak a vendor/seller have benefitted from Autopia and would be happy to contribute back as a "paid" sponsor. We are thankful and appreciate everyone here on Autopia who has purchased products from us. And there are many of you here who has. :xyxthumbs



David...Please let us how can we sign up. :)



With Aloha,

Ranney :)
 
I'm in a different boat than most of you others - I don't sell product to autopians, I merely help with assistance like where to find products (which is now against the rules), offer suggestions on the type of product to use (and I've done my best to recommend a TYPE of product, not merely my own), and correct mis-statements made about my products.



I'm sorry, but I'm philosophically opposed to paying money to help folks out.

We've viewed the internet as a place for folks to go to learn. I'm sorry this no longer meets the goals here.



David, please delete my account, and those of Mr Chemist and dennis holloway.
 
forrest said:
I'm in a different boat than most of you others - I don't sell product to autopians, I merely help with assistance like where to find products (which is now against the rules), offer suggestions on the type of product to use (and I've done my best to recommend a TYPE of product, not merely my own), and correct mis-statements made about my products.



I'm sorry, but I'm philosophically opposed to paying money to help folks out.

We've viewed the internet as a place for folks to go to learn. I'm sorry this no longer meets the goals here.



David, please delete my account, and those of Mr Chemist and dennis holloway.
Click to expand...



:bow Well said.
 
David,



Im gonna have to agree with Forrest. Please delete my account also. I dont think helping someone with advice should have a price. Thanks for everyones support, Ive made some great friends here and have met some great people. Take care everyone.
 
forrest said:
I'm in a different boat than most of you others - I don't sell product to autopians, I merely help with assistance like where to find products (which is now against the rules), offer suggestions on the type of product to use (and I've done my best to recommend a TYPE of product, not merely my own), and correct mis-statements made about my products.



I'm sorry, but I'm philosophically opposed to paying money to help folks out.

We've viewed the internet as a place for folks to go to learn. I'm sorry this no longer meets the goals here.



David, please delete my account, and those of Mr Chemist and dennis holloway.
Click to expand...



:bow



Very well said Forrest! I have to give you and Bufferman71 some serious props for going against the current and being willing to back it up with ACTION.



Forrest, your actions are true to your form and I'll miss reading your posts here a lot.
 
Forrest and Eric,



We do not delete accounts because that also removes the threads associated with the account. I will disable your accounts for you, if that is what you wish.



I'm very sorry that you both feel that this community is not worthy of supporting. We're not asking anyone to "pay to post". We're asking the community that benefits to help shoulder some of the cost. Mothers and Lake Country Mfg are part of the community that benefits.



If I had the same belief ("I'm sorry, but I'm philosophically opposed to paying money to help folks out."), this place would not exist at all. The fact of the matter is the internet is not free. It always costs someone money. I pull money out of my pocket and work very long hours so people have a place to discuss Mothers and Lake Country Mfg products.



You say that you do not sell, but you do. You both have vendors within this community that offer your products. When you answer technical questions about your products members go to your vendors and place orders. That's good for you, your vendors and the members who use your products. Today, I shoulder 100% of the cost for YOU to have that benefit. Do you both feel that is right?



I find myself in the unfortunate position of being both a vendor and the custodian of this community. I must do what is right by all, including myself. What is right is for those who actively participate and financially benefit to help support the cost of receiving that benefit.



I believe that if you look at the facilities we have provided the manufacturers you would see that opportunity does exist for you to answer questions. The âہ“Ask the Manufacturerâ€Â� forum was created so manufacturers like Mothers and LCM, would have a place to appropriately interact with members. I have no plans to change this feature. It will remain a place for manufacturers to post new product information and answer direct questions about their products.



In general, manufacturers and vendors should not be involved on a daily basis discussing their products. Doing so influences purchasing in a way that is not appropriate, which ultimately leads to spamming and other problems. The community is better served when its members learn about products and post their experiences.



Respectfully,

David
 
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