Are waxes and sealants obsolete?

J

jwyfk

New member
I`ve been out of the loop for a while. I just got a new car exactly a week ago. In the past I had used carnauba wax, and the car looked amazing for a while, but I gave up after losing a battle with acid rain or water spot etching, especially on the roof of the car. This time I decided to go synthetic and purchased Meguiar`s Ultimate liquid because of the good reviews and the fact that it won`t stain trim.

I didn`t know about ceramic coatings until the past few days and I`m wondering if this is the direction I should take instead. I realize that for the ultimate show car finish, carnauba is still the best, but the durability and resistance to water spot etchings is poor. It rains all the time where I live and I don`t have the luxury or physical fitness to wax constantly. Also, any time I`d get water spots, I was probably removing too much clear coat to try and get rid of them.

Even though it`s only been a week, when I washed it yesterday for the first time, I already had to spend time buffing out some mild water spots. Should I just get ceramic coating and return the Meguiar`s Ultimate?
 
jwyfk- I`ve coated wheels but never the body proper and I will continue to do it that way. Well, I`ll *probably* continue to coat wheels but I`ll *definitely* continue to use conventional LSPs on the body.

I could argue the coating vs. conventional LSP either way, and depending on *your* specific circumstances either could be best. But FWIW, as I see it I`m missing out on two things by not coating the body: 1) increased marring resistance and 2) the ability to go even longer than I currently do between reapplications. Neither of those matter to me, and the downsides of using a coating (as I perceive them to be) far outweigh those benefits *FOR ME*. But that`s just me and it might be completely different for you.

Though I will say that when I read about your struggles with waterspots so severe you have to remove clearcoat to fix them, I wonder whether it`s a case of: 1) really nasty environmental conditions, and/or 2) what I`d consider a functionally inadequate LSP.

FWIW, with the FK1000P I`m using on most of our vehicles now, NOTHING requires that kind of remediation. I don`t even bother doing bugs/bird-bombs any more, don`t polish at all really other than the occasional RIDS. A hard rain almost washes the car for me too :D
 
I personally don`t think I have the right environment to do a coating. I also like that I can "top" my sealant with the exact same product. And for the leases I usually do a light polish annually so the life time of the coating isn`t worth the cost. I`ve got nothing against coatings though and like Accumulator, I`ll probably eventually coat some wheels.
 
[h=2]Are waxes and sealants obsolete?[/h]

Not yet. I’m one who still prefers a sealant and maybe a sealant topped with another sealant or even a beauty wax.
 
Yeah, I have PB Natty`s Black, two bottles of EX-P, and Collinite 476S that are unused in my arsenal, the waxes/sealants live in the house to keep them from melting and restructuring. FK1000P is the only sealant type product that gets used and everything else gets either Gyeon Wet Coat or Hydro Blue over Essence. The SiO2 spray products are lasting me about four months being maintained with Bathe+ and ECH20. I have kept Essence alive for just around a year, maintaining it with Wet Coat every three months, and regular baths with Bathe+ and ECH20. I don`t play with coatings because I don`t have the environment to apply them, but the new sealant/coating hybrids that are alleging 6 months of protection are attractive, but I am not sure how they will resist bird bombs and water spots.

If I were to get rid of products in my arsenal, I really would only keep FK1000P/D156 and Essence/Hydro Blue/Bathe+/ECH20. If I had to pick only one combo, it would be FK1000P/D156. It is such a hearty sealant, easy to apply, cheap, doesn`t magnify surface imperfections like a coating does and works well with D156.

Meg`s Ultimate Fast Finish leaves me thinking that it has to have something like SiO2 or TiO2 in it, to keep it on a surface for about a year, however the exact information isn`t on its SDS.
 
Accumulator said:
Though I will say that when I read about your struggles with waterspots so severe you have to remove clearcoat to fix them, I wonder whether it`s a case of: 1) really nasty environmental conditions, and/or 2) what I`d consider a functionally inadequate LSP.
Click to expand...

Great advice all around and not much for me to add.

These two points are very important. I use both sealants and coating and neither have left me in a position where I need to polish off water spots unless it was a nasty dousing from my sprinklers. Even then, it was only the horizontal surfaces needing attention and a claybar removed 90%+ or the markings. I only polished to make them totally dissapear. Water spots from rain or snow can be simply washed off.

Don`t let a lot of the hype and "accessory" products scare you off from coatings. I`ve found as long as you use a good panel prep spray after polishing and before application and then keep the vehicle clean, coatings will serve you well for a long time. All the boosters, special shampoo`s, animal sacrifices, etc really aren`t needed to get reasonable durability from a reputable product.
 
I’m a sealant and wax guy, and most recently learning to like the SiO2 polishes (like Essence), coating waxes (like Synergy) and sprays... but no desire to go to real coatings. I like LSPs that last some time, but not too much time that I feel guilty when I change it up every 3-6 months. I also enjoy using sprays to alter looks.

i don’t think sealants and waxes are dead, they just won’t be talked about as much as the latest and greatest things, but I think plenty of people are still using them.
 
Yes, For me, and my view of the industry. They are dead.

I would say the industry stacks up like this for the ones in the know:

1. Coatings for durability
1.5 Topper for extending hydrophobic action
2. Sio2 sprays for better than wax /sealant performance at a specific price point.

And if you just enjoy waxing your car or applying sealant or both by all means enjoy yourself and your life. I’m not going to try an stop you :) !
 
Personally I don’t like coatings. I stick with wax and some sealant use. I’ll only do a coating of a client is super hooked on getting it done and most cases I talk them out of it.
 
On my personal cars I`ve exclusively used coatings in the last 4 years on 5 or 6 different cars.

Cquartz UK, Cquartz TIO2, Max Protect UNC-R (awesome), and Miyabi Coat.

After 2 years with Cquartz on my ATS-V it started to not look so great. I just polished it off and sealed it with Duragloss 111/601. The Cquartz was still there, but it showed it`s age just like the clear coat would have.

I`ve been facing an internal battle between coatings and sealants. Freshly polished car with DG 111 just looks so good. I don`t remember the ATS-V with Cquartz looking as good as it does now with DG 111.

I think an annual light polish and seal in the spring along with a top up before winter with maintenance products in between may be the way to go. But then I still like reading about coatings.
 
Lonnie said:
I asked this very question 3-1/2 years ago: some things have not changed. Please see//.
Click to expand...

One thing that`s changed since then is that I`ve quit using 476S on the `93 Audi, having switched it to FK1000P on all but a few areas (which are still getting 845 as it`s all that`ll work on those compromised surfaces). Other than the (will I ever drive it again?!?) Jag, I`m gonna run the FK on everything eventually.
 
Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate it. It would be difficult to reply to all of you individually, but for those that don`t like ceramic coatings, what was it that you didn`t like? I understand that it`s not as easy to use. Another thing I saw on a Youtube video last night is that it CAN have water spot problems, which is something that surprised me.

If I do this, I`m going to have it done by a detailer, because I don`t want to go trough the trial and error process on a brand new car myself. The two shops locally use different products with different pricing structures. One shop uses Pinnacle Black Label Diamond surface coating, charges only $300 for a new car treatment on interior and exterior. The claim is that this coating will last 3 years. I`m sure there`s prep work involved, but not much correction is needed on a brand new car, which is why I`m sure the price is reasonable.

The other shop has 3 tier pricing and uses this company, which only seems to sell to authorized dealers:

https://www.opticoat.com/
https://optimumcarcare.com/

(I think they`re the same company? They told me the 1 year product was Gloss Coat, but I could only find that on this website)

The 1 year coating (Optimum Gloss Coat) is $399, then 5 year (Opti Coat Pro) is $799 and 7 year (Opti Coat Pro+) is $1199. I can only afford the 1 year right now, but when I spoke to them on the phone, it sounds like the buffing and prep work involved is quite extensive to ensure the paint is perfect.

Given these two choices (Opti/Optimum or Pinnacle), which would you prefer at the $300-$400 price range?
 
jwyfk said:
T..for those that don`t like ceramic coatings, what was it that you didn`t like? I understand that it`s not as easy to use..
Click to expand...

For me, the chance of an imperfect application and the inability to easily do spot-correction outweigh the benefits of not having to do it so often. But then my LSPs seem to last an awfully long time, maybe we`re not as hard on our cars these days. Annual LSPing or using OCW as a Drying Aid are so quick/easy as to be no big deal *to me*.

If I do this, I`m going to have it done by a detailer...
Click to expand...

I like the sound of that. Just make sure you find one of the 2% of Pro Detailers who make things better instead of worse. (IMO the Pros here are all among that 2%)

.. The claim is that this coating will last 3 years. I`m sure there`s prep work involved, but not much correction is needed on a brand new car, which is why I`m sure the price is reasonable.
Click to expand...

Beware longevity claims. From anybody. And, sorry to say :( just because something is brand new that doesn`t mean it won`t need *EXTENSIVE* correction. I`ve redone cars that came right out of the wrapper. You just never know.

The other shop has 3 tier pricing and uses [Optimum], which only seems to sell to authorized dealers:
Given these two choices (Opti/Optimum or Pinnacle), which would you prefer at the $300-$400 price range?
Click to expand...

I`d kinda kneejerk towards the shop using Optimum, though I probably have more Pinnacle products on my own shelves. If nothing else, the cost at the other shop just seems too good to be true to me. IF they quoted that without seeing the car, I`d run away to the Optimum user.
 
jwyfk said:
Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate it. It would be difficult to reply to all of you individually, but for those that don`t like ceramic coatings, what was it that you didn`t like? I understand that it`s not as easy to use. Another thing I saw on a Youtube video last night is that it CAN have water spot problems, which is something that surprised me.

If I do this, I`m going to have it done by a detailer, because I don`t want to go trough the trial and error process on a brand new car myself. The two shops locally use different products with different pricing structures. One shop uses Pinnacle Black Label Diamond surface coating, charges only $300 for a new car treatment on interior and exterior. The claim is that this coating will last 3 years. I`m sure there`s prep work involved, but not much correction is needed on a brand new car, which is why I`m sure the price is reasonable.

The other shop has 3 tier pricing and uses this company, which only seems to sell to authorized dealers:

https://www.opticoat.com/
https://optimumcarcare.com/

(I think they`re the same company? They told me the 1 year product was Gloss Coat, but I could only find that on this website)

The 1 year coating (Optimum Gloss Coat) is $399, then 5 year (Opti Coat Pro) is $799 and 7 year (Opti Coat Pro+) is $1199. I can only afford the 1 year right now, but when I spoke to them on the phone, it sounds like the buffing and prep work involved is quite extensive to ensure the paint is perfect.

Given these two choices (Opti/Optimum or Pinnacle), which would you prefer at the $300-$400 price range?
Click to expand...
I highly doubt the black label diamond is lasting 3 years for a car that is driven routinely... So I`d rule them out immediately.

I`ve applied about 10 different coatings so far. It isn`t the application that is difficult, it is the prep work. I understand why these guys charge so much because it is time and labor intensive. Not to mention they have shops, rent, marketing, employees, insurance, product, etc and oh yeah need to make some sort of profit.

I just applied Gyeon Synchro to a friends new c43 amg, I get tons of people I work with coming to me asking me for help applying coatings after they see my car. It stays cleaner longer, and has a nice candy glass look to it. His car was in very good shape, started at 9AM with a thorough wash, we finished around 6pm. That is two people working on the car, washing, iron x, wash again, clay bar, applying gyeon prep, first layer of coating, second layer of coating, and third layer of coating. Add another 2 hours if we wanted to polish it (but I didn`t think it needed it).
 
The Pinnacle Black Label is a good product but 3 years is impossible without topping it with an SIO2 product on a regular basis. I actually got 18 months out of it without using anything to top it. But at 18 months it was gone in some spots, and I mean worn off. $300 is not a bad price as the major work is in the correction phase. A child could apply PBL with success. You can get 4-5 cars done out of one bottle.

All coatings need to be maintained. I’m not going to go into what is necessary to maintain a coating as there are numerous posts here on the subject, but it needs to be mentioned in any post where a person might be planning to spend good money on a coating install. A coating is not an apply and forget thing.
 
jwyfk said:
Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate it. It would be difficult to reply to all of you individually, but for those that don`t like ceramic coatings, what was it that you didn`t like? I understand that it`s not as easy to use. Another thing I saw on a Youtube video last night is that it CAN have water spot problems, which is something that surprised me.

If I do this, I`m going to have it done by a detailer, because I don`t want to go trough the trial and error process on a brand new car myself. The two shops locally use different products with different pricing structures. One shop uses Pinnacle Black Label Diamond surface coating, charges only $300 for a new car treatment on interior and exterior. The claim is that this coating will last 3 years. I`m sure there`s prep work involved, but not much correction is needed on a brand new car, which is why I`m sure the price is reasonable.

The other shop has 3 tier pricing and uses this company, which only seems to sell to authorized dealers:

https://www.opticoat.com/
https://optimumcarcare.com/

(I think they`re the same company? They told me the 1 year product was Gloss Coat, but I could only find that on this website)

The 1 year coating (Optimum Gloss Coat) is $399, then 5 year (Opti Coat Pro) is $799 and 7 year (Opti Coat Pro+) is $1199. I can only afford the 1 year right now, but when I spoke to them on the phone, it sounds like the buffing and prep work involved is quite extensive to ensure the paint is perfect.

Given these two choices (Opti/Optimum or Pinnacle), which would you prefer at the $300-$400 price range?
Click to expand...

Don`t let those that say coatings are hard to use detract you from using them. They are not hard to use. In general they are all about the same in terms of application.

I think Pinnacle Black Label is a good entry level coating. Autogeek does claim it lasts 3 years. When I was sent a bottle for review I did see 2 years out of it with the occasional use of the booster. Keep in mind we are talking about Southern California weather conditions. Some have mentioned that it is not that durable in harsher conditions. You will realistically get a year out of it. But I will say that it did outperform Gloss Coat.

Optimum is the brains behind Gloss Coat and Opti Coat. I was underwhelmed by Gloss Coat. Optimum claims it is a 3 year coating and they guarantee 2 years. In reality 1 year max is about right. So this detailer that has it at 1 year is spot on. It starts to exhibit issues before getting to 1 year. I will say that Gloss Coat is one of the easiest coatings to apply and it`s initial performance is good. It would be fair to say this is why Optimum developed their coating maintenance line which has a booster in it by the name of hyper seal. At least that is my personal thought even with all the claims that optimum coatings don`t need a booster.

In most cases the paint is going to need a good polishing 1-2 years down the road as the coating becomes contaminated.

If you go with one of the Opti Coat coatings be sure to read the warranty thoroughly and understand what is covered. Gloss Coat does not come with a warranty.

Tough call on these two choices but I would not choose either one based on the performance I have seen with both. But I if I had to absolutely pick one then Optimum.
 
Accumulator said:
I`d kinda kneejerk towards the shop using Optimum, though I probably have more Pinnacle products on my own shelves. If nothing else, the cost at the other shop just seems too good to be true to me. IF they quoted that without seeing the car, I`d run away to the Optimum user.
Click to expand...

It wasn`t a quote, it was just what`s written on his website for a new car treatment. If the car isn`t brand new, the cost goes up.

scharnhorst310 said:
...started at 9AM with a thorough wash, we finished around 6pm. That is two people working on the car, washing, iron x, wash again, clay bar, applying gyeon prep, first layer of coating, second layer of coating, and third layer of coating. Add another 2 hours if we wanted to polish it (but I didn`t think it needed it).
Click to expand...

This is exactly why it would be extremely difficult for me to accomplish this myself without taking vacation time and paying extra for visits to the chiropractor!

rlmccarty2000 said:
All coatings need to be maintained. I’m not going to go into what is necessary to maintain a coating as there are numerous posts here on the subject, but it needs to be mentioned in any post where a person might be planning to spend good money on a coating install. A coating is not an apply and forget thing.
Click to expand...

I`m absolutely eager to do what it takes to maintain the coating. I either like to do things perfectly or not at all. I used to love detailing my old car, but partly due to the fact that the car was parked outside when new, nothing I did would protect the paint from contamination. It was depressing to see the car get worse over time, so I gave up with the waxing and just kept it clean. Hopefully, this coating will give me a fighting chance to keep my paint in good condition with the nasty weather and nuclear fallout we get around here.

The Guz said:
But I will say that it did outperform Gloss Coat.

...which has a booster in it by the name of hyper seal. At least that is my personal thought even with all the claims that optimum coatings don`t need a booster.

In most cases the paint is going to need a good polishing 1-2 years down the road as the coating becomes contaminated.

if I had to absolutely pick one then Optimum.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the post and mentioning hyper seal. I`ll look into that. If Pinnacle outperformed Gloss Coat, why would you recommend Gloss Coat out of the two choices? Also, since I just got a brand new car, I can`t afford to spend over $1000, in addition to Xpel (that I really want) right now. So, this is just something I want to do the job for a year or so anyway, until I can get something better. As long as it looks good and protects the paint, that`s fine. If there are things I can do to enhance the durability of the product, like hyper seal or even a coating of wax or sealant, I`ll do it.

I`ve decided to go with the $399 coating. It sounds like they know what they`re doing and they`ve been around for a while. The other guy may do good work, but I haven`t had much luck with him the past couple of years. He`s really difficult to get in touch with.

I actually have a paint chip that I need to deal with and allow enough time to dry before making an appointment. The car is a hatchback and on the first day I got it, after I had pulled it into the garage, I didn`t notice until I closed the hatch that it had hit the garage door hinge. I ordered Dr. Colorchip, so we`ll see how that goes. :unsure:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top