APC pH levels

ShaneB

ShaneB

New member
Doing some research lately in terms of how and why cleaners work for specific things and have gotten into how pH levels effect cleaning. Does anyone here happen to know off hand what the pH level is of any of the popular APCs out there? I assume most if not all of them are on the alkaline (higher) side. I am looking for one that`s actually on the lower end (acid). I`ve noticed that while alkaline cleaners work well for grease/oil/protein based stains and soil, acidic cleaners work well for dirt, salt, mineral based stuff. I`d like to find an APC that will hit the other end of the pH spectrum.

Maybe this thread can become a reference for pH levels. Could be helpful for some.
 
This isn’t the exact info that you are looking for but vinegar and lemon are more in the acidic side as well as toilet bowel cleaners. I don’t know how I would incorporate a toilet bowel cleaner into a detailing regime, but I’d imagine it would do wonders on wheel grime...of course it would probably reek havoc on the clear coat but I’d imagine the wheels would be prepped for a good coating at that point!


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I believe OPT Power Clean is pH12, Super Clean is pH13, Extra Tough is pH11 or pH12 (maybe 10), Meg`s APC is pH11 (I think). Off the top of my head, I cannot think of any APC, only some wheel cleaners, that are below pH7. Eagle One Mag Wheel Cleaner pH 1 and Chrome Wheel Cleaner ~pH3. If you are looking for an APC to aid in removing mineral deposits, one of the acidic wheel cleaners diluted, will fit the bill; Vinegar, too, but not as effective. For what purposes, specifically, are you in need of an acidic APC? I ask because there are limited times when an acidic APC deployed for use.
 
When I have vehicles come in that have dirt ground into everywhere, especially the fine texture of interior plastics (that spider web cracked texture) any APC I`ve tried is minimally effective on it. Sure I can get the stuff off the surface but the stuff stuck down in the texture remains and is left highlighted. It`s really frustrating because it usually means scrubbing to get it clean. I try to live by the idea that if I have to scrub really hard, I have the wrong cleaner.

Maybe a simple vinegar solution is all I need. I typically keep that for salt removal, never thought to try it on a door panel or dashboard
 
ShaneB said:
When I have vehicles come in that have dirt ground into everywhere, especially the fine texture of interior plastics (that spider web cracked texture) any APC I`ve tried is minimally effective on it. Sure I can get the stuff off the surface but the stuff stuck down in the texture remains and is left highlighted. It`s really frustrating because it usually means scrubbing to get it clean. I try to live by the idea that if I have to scrub really hard, I have the wrong cleaner.

Maybe a simple vinegar solution is all I need. I typically keep that for salt removal, never thought to try it on a door panel or dashboard
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Have you ever thought about whether or not your cleaning tools are letting you down?
 
TheMeanGreen said:
I believe OPT Power Clean is pH12, Super Clean is pH13, Extra Tough is pH11 or pH12 (maybe 10), Meg`s APC is pH11 (I think)...
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And to think that some people use such products on LEATHER!

ShaneB said:
Maybe a simple vinegar solution is all I need. I typically keep that for salt removal, never thought to try it on a door panel or dashboard..
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Heh heh, I`ve had such poor performance from Vinegar (including potent "for cleaning/etc. only" varieties) that I almost think the whole "use vinegar to solve your problems!" thing is mostly BS...no matter what Heloise says ;) When I need something acidic, I use something stronger. Not that I need acidic stuff very often.

EDIT: But "yeah, it works great!" regarding vinegar for salt.

I do wonder about using acidic products for what you`re dealing with...why might an acid work on what sounds like normal dirt/grime? While I generally agree about the "product vs. scrubbing", sometimes you simply need mechanical agitation and/or it`s preferable to letting a given product dwell for a really long time lest it cause damage. I think that, echoing what TheMeanGreen posted, I`d be sorting through my brushes to find just the right ones to agitate the surface effectively yet safely.
 
What has me thinking about this a lot more is that I recently started using a rinse solution with my extractor (still pre treat as usual) and have noticed that in terms of your everyday dirt, carpets are rinsing much more cleanly with the acidic solution (the RTU pH of the rinse is 3.6). And I don`t mean cleaner residue or anything, but dirt actually releases from the carpet much more easily than before. With what I read about pH levels and what certain pH levels are effective for different types of soil, the results seem to match the material.

I absolutely hate having to scrub things so I`ll keep doing my research on this and hopefully find a solution.

Am I allowed to share a link to the article I read about how pH levels effect cleaning?

As for my tools failing me, I`ve used soft brushes, stiff brushes, steam (100+ psi), brush attachment on the steamer, while some options work, it requires some elbow grease. I`ve also tried longer dwell times as well.
 
ShaneB- Ah, that`s interesting about the acidic Rinse Agent helping get things *cleaner* too! I use a bit of vinegar when residual soap/etc. is an issue but I never had it get anything cleaner like that (another YMMV moment :D ).

I bet you could cut/paste that article in a way that won`t bug the Powers That Be ;) Just don`t link to somebody who`s competition to the owners of this site and you oughta be OK.

I sure sympathize with wanting to get things clean without some kind of oops!..and FWIW I`ve caused damage with my steamer that I sure never expected given my extensive experience with such stuff!

Here`s hoping you find just the right solution, and I`ll enjoy reading about it when you do.
 
I was quite impressed when I read on the bottle of the rinse that it will make carpets feel softer and look nicer, and that actually is the case. Compared to extracting with just water, the carpets I`ve done actually come out a lot fluffier and feel softer.

It`s also very effective at dissolving salt, so I`m not reaching for vinegar nearly as much. Not bad for 1oz/gal added to my extractor.
 
ShaneB- I believe you! If my water weren`t as good as it is I`d absolutely be using a proper Rinse Agent with the extractors, and OK...I probably should anyhow. One of these days...

Which Rinse Agent is it? I`ll put it on my short-(wish) list.
 
Good read, good info.
Thanks fellas (and sorry I couldn`t contribute. Haven`t done much by way of carpet cleaning on cars regularly)
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, I`ve had such poor performance from Vinegar (including potent "for cleaning/etc. only" varieties) that I almost think the whole "use vinegar to solve your problems!" thing is mostly BS...no matter what Heloise says ;) When I need something acidic, I use something stronger. Not that I need acidic stuff very often.
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Just a thought, I have picked up several bottles of "cleaning" vinegar and find that they are just the regular 5% variety. I use a fair amount of distilled vinegar, using 1/2 to a full cup with every laundry load. I keep a spray bottle of 50/50 vinegar/water for cleaning counter tops when the cooler weather drives the pi$$ ants in to remove their scent trails. I use the "hotter" (10 and 20%) vinegars for gardening purposes.

If ChemSpec is not available in your area, you might search for Matrix All Fiber Rinse. It appears to be a similar product and happens to be available for local pickup in my area. It dilutes so well that a gallon goes a long way.
 
Mr. Clean- The "hot" versions are what I tried for cleaning as well as weed-killing. Lousy at both IME, total waste of $ in my case :(

Thanks for mentioning the Matrix. I can get ChemSpec, but others might not have it local.

ShaneB- That was a good read, thanks for posting it. Interesting that they didn`t mention leather liking things slightly acidic..

JustJesus said:
Good read, good info... sorry I couldn`t contribute. Haven`t done much by way of carpet cleaning on cars regularly..
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There are always the *household* carpets and rugs to consider ;)
 
ShaneB do you know if your soil in your area is usually mineral high?

Then soil is a mineral if I`m remember it correctly. But it`s much of in which state the mineral is in and what kind of mineral it is. That comes to if it`s needed to be desolved in to a liquid form or if you need to be release the bond between it and the material it has attached to. To desolve it it`s the acidic ph level of a product and if you need to be release the bond it`s usually an alkaline that does it. So usually at least on the paint you need to be release the bond and an alkaline product is usually the most effective to do this. Can be that on the plastic trim it`s more needed to be desolved to get it off more effective. And it`s maybe not getting desolved fully but small parts so edges and such gets desolved so it`s released easier from the plastic and fiber. As an iron remover works on iron particals basicly. I`m not a chemist and just on how I think it could works based on the reading I have done as geek to get to know how things works LOL. So there is much more to it and variables.

I think that most think the Meguiars APC D101 is gentle. But in it`s concentrated it has a ph level of 13. Don`t know what ph level it gets to when diluted to 1:4 or 1:10. But then it`s not just the ph level on how effective the cleaners are if you compare 2 products with the same ph level. Then it`s much more of the chemicals them selfs abilities to clean different kind of dirt. So it`s much of which chemicals that desolves different kind of dirt most effective. And I think that you will be a good chemist and know exactly which kind of dirt you want to clean or desolve. To know which chemical build up is the most effective to do this. Then it`s not like you have to have the exactly chemical to be doing a good cleaning and it can work well to clean many kind of different dirts. But the hardest part is to get to know what it is for kind of dirt that you try to remove. And have the knowledge about the chemical build up of just that dirt and what and how the chemical build up of the cleaning product is to handle this the best way. Know it`s not so needed to be getting into the the specific chemicals but more of a general knowledge about it to be trying some different chemical build up products and see which works to clean it off. Or if it`s really needed to be useing a chemical product and just some warm/hot water and aggitations can be very effective to clean with. Also you have the material that you are going to be cleaning a specific dirt off it. Then maybe the most effective cleaner is not so good to use on that material. So you would need to be finding something that`s safe to use on that material and still good at cleaning off the dirt on that material. And so it`s so many variables so you usually use a wider chemicals build up in the cleaner that can be on the material that it`s designed to be used on. But if you have a certain kind of dirt on a certain kind of material you should be able to finding out what works the best and safest to do the cleaning.

Think that there are many chemical products that is used in different kind of works. That can suit the vehical detailing great too. But be carefull to use these on just the material you have taking it from outside of the vehical detailing. As the vehical detailing products takes in what other materials on the vehicals this can be overspayed on and not destroying those materials. That the outside cleaning product don`t need to be cared for. For an example that the fabric rinse product is great on the carpets but could be staining plastic trim badly. This is just made up to an example where you have plastic trim very close to most fabric.

Awesome that you have find something that works for you. I thought of useing a waterless wash which usually is on the acidic ph level. Wondering which ph level the McKees N-914 rinseless wash has? Think it`s a blend of solvents and the water softening chemicals. Where the water softening properties is usually acidic. So it`s much of how much of the water softening chemicals it`s in it. And if it`s enough to desolve or release the dirt you want to clean off.

Thanks for shareing the article about the ph levels and will be reading it with intrest.

/ Tony
 
Well that is the long explanation of what I`m trying to learn here. Thank you.

Basically yeah, I am trying to figure out what works for specific types of soil, what is safe, and most importantly... WHY it works or doesn`t work. Want to work smarter not harder. Guess I`m just trying to understand the science behind all of it.
 
I don`t think you can come to the conclusions on what works best on what by simply looking at the pH levels of the cleaner. Surely the combination of what chemical solvents, detergents, surfactants and such has to be more important than just the pH level.
 
Accumulator, not wanting to make the mistake of the "assume", so I`ll ask if your hot version of vinegar is the 20% variety? If so, I am surprised at your disappointment. I have found it to be an extremely effective contact killer on weeds, grasses, and if not careful, unintended plants. Some tougher weeds and bermuda grass (tougher than most weeds - some call it a weed) will require follow up sprays since it is not a systemic. I still prefer this additional step to more toxic chemicals. If you aren`t completely out on it as a solution to your weed problems, try adding a drop of two of dishwashing soap (sticker) and an oz of orange oil (di-limonene).
 
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