Airplane pricing?

S

Scrapyard

New member
I did some searching and found some old info but not much recent. So l`ll give some background.
A guy I know is a pilot for a very wealthy family, his job is to strictly fly them wherever they want to go, and to make sure the aircraft is ready to go. He approached me knowing I what I do with cars. He wants just a basic interior cleaning and exterior wipe down.

1. The interior has been Scotch guarded, so no real fabric scrubbing, just vacuum, clean bathroom, make sure woodwork is shiny, etc.

2. The exterior has a ceramic coating, just wants it wiped down, remove bugs, clean windows, shine brightwork, etc.

3. I`m not sure how big it is, it is a newer jet. We`re going Saturday to take a look at it, it`s about 45 minutes from my shop. I`m not setup for mobile, so that`s another obstacle to consider.

It`s in a private hanger, they aren`t worried about insurance. I have a business policy, but not what most airports require.
I`m not real excited about doing it, but it could lead to some good money. He claims there is a need for it in this area, his current detailer isn`t getting the job done. It would be on a monthly schedule.
Here`s where it get`s interesting, the wealthy family he works for has several Rolls Royce`s, a Bentley, and some other exotics that he wants me do detail as well. That`s what I really want to do!
I need to price it to make some profit, but I don`t want to be so high I lose the account.
Any and all advice and criticism is welcome. Thanks in advance.
 
Scrapyard -
What I have learned about Detailing airplanes --
The windows are plexiglass, try NOT to touch them and if you have to, be so careful that you do NOT scratch them..

The last airplanes I Detailed, the Owner said he would take care of all the windows, so I carefully, taped them off with brown paper on a roll with a roll of masking tape hand held machine, and it turned out great.. I just did not want to get anything on the windows that would have to be taken off..

You will have to see for yourself how "dirty" the exterior is; is it painted, aluminum, or what, and go from there..

Airplane Detailers, I mean real Airplane Detailers go through huge amounts of wool pads, etc,. to get the harder than rocks urethane paintwork nice, and I did just that..
If you do not have to do any paint correction, then that is all the better..
When you go see it in the Hangar, you can see if there is access to water, or what, and then decide how you are going to clean the paint up.

You will need access to ladders to get all of the fuselage and the tops of the wings.. You can stand on certain parts of some wings, and have to be careful, and then figure out how you are going to wipe down the top of the cockpit..
Check all this out when you go see it.. Ask the guy if there are ladders in the hangar already for this, or I guess you will need to supply your own method of getting all round the aircraft..

Please be really careful you do not ding or hit any of the pitot tubes , etc., sticking out of the wings, etc... If you break one or knock it out of alignment, it causes all kinds of headaches when they go fly it again..

Depending on how it`s powered, some airplanes are very oily, greasy, etc., under the engines, the trailing underside of the wings, and around the wheels and the parts that raise and lower the wheels, so be on the look out for that when you go see it..

If you need to, take pics of the areas, you need to refer to later when you are gathering up your stuff to go out there..

I have only seen mobile aircraft detailers, never seen one there all the time, but that does not mean they are not there permanently for the airport, etc...

There is A LOT of area to clean on any airplane, so think about that, and then remember after all the work you have to do on the Top Side of the wings, you will have to duplicate that on the Underside of the wings.. Yeah, it`s a lot of real estate and a real triceps burner if there is a lot of work to do underneath those wings..

And again, do NOT hit anything or wet anything with cleaners that is not supposed to be touched ! Yes, airplanes get wet in the sky and all, I know, but they don`t get hit with strong cleaners on sensitive parts in the sky ever.. :)

You may want to consider charging by the hour. It should take a lot of hours, but it WILL be a lot of work..

Nothing I can tell you will be as good as standing in the hangar with that Jet, walking all around it, seeing all the real estate that is needing to be touched by your hands, and then, the tops of the wings, the bottom of the wings, the top of the front cockpit, etc., and we have not even talked about the inside yet.. :)

If you do get this job, last thing you have to do is clean up after yourself before you leave the hangar, which means a way to blow out all the dirt you may have knocked off of it, etc., so the people who might walk into the hangar to look at it and take it out, will not step on dirt, and then track it into their newly cleaned aircraft.. They hate that part and will let you know if it happens..

Good luck with this !

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/january/15/professional-aircraft-detailing

https://www.meridian.aero/sites/default/files/DetailingExteriorPrices.pdf

Dan F
 
Good advice from Dan about the windows (and pilot tubes). They are very expensive to replace and owners really seem to be very anal about them.

For price, I charge the same hourly rate no matter what I am working on. Having said that I did my last airplane a couple of years ago. I don`t find it enjoyable at all. Especially the belly & wings.
 
Great advice everyone, it is greatly appreciated.

Dan, this is a great resource! Thanks.
https://www.meridian.aero/sites/default/files/DetailingExteriorPrices.pdf

Ladders - the pilot tells me there are lifts in the hanger for me to use, that will save me some time and labor.

Buffers - it has a ceramic coating, they don`t need me to do a paint correction (yet). They only want the brightwork polished, it is an aluminum alloy. I was going to do a test spot with some Zephyr Pro40, I use it on for all bare metal polishing, chrome, stainless, aluminum, etc.

Water - he only wants the exterior wiped down, probably use a ceramic booster to give it a little more shine.

Hourly rate - that`s not a bad idea, I could probably get my daughter to help me, she`s helps me on large trucks, and has a pretty good eye for swirl marks and such. I could have her working on the interior while I`m on the exterior. I will definitely take some pictures and try to throw them on here when I see it.
 
Your hourly rate should reflect on your experience. Having said that even if you have little experience your rate should be no less then $40 per hour minimum (per person). Don`t go in there charging $15-$20 per hour thinking your doing something.

I`m definitely up for pics!
 
wristymanchego said:
“Be extremely careful with power buffers and avoid automotive orbital buffers”

Interesting point, anyone have any further information on how and why it was made?
Click to expand...

Wristymanchego-

I don`t get the orbital buffers reference; there is no orbital buffer that will ever live long enough or have the pad rotation that I would ever consider to try to correct aircraft urethane paint..

It has to be a big Rotary and you better have a couple of back up Rotary machines And Brushes for all of them, when you wear them out, and have to change them..

Perhaps they dont know how hard, really hard, aircraft paint is, or something.. The other side of that is the rivets will really tear up the wool pads quickly if you are not careful, so you have to mind that all the time, and plan on taking 30-40+ wool pads to a paint correction job..

For bigger aircraft, you take twice that number or more, if it needs paint correction.. You will destroy all the pads used for paint correction, wearing them down to nothing, so you have to plan for the cost of that..

And then, you need about an equal amount of Foam pads, etc., to refine the correction as you do on automotive paint..

The other thing that comes to mind, is that with any powered machine, (Rotary, etc.,) that you might lose control of it for a second and hit something on the wings like those really critical, expensive, pitot tubes, and destroy them or change them so they now calibrate airspeed, altitude, etc., Wrong- to the instruments inside the cockpit, and the Pilot might not notice until it is too late and something bad can happen..

In one of those links, I supplied, these 4 guys said they took 2 days to complete the process, so that should help one understand how long it takes to do 1 airplane.
For example, if 4 guys took 80 hours total, Each guy worked 80 hours, so the number of total hours is 320 hours..

Now, you know why I don`t want to ever do an airplane again! :) :) :)
Happy New Year !!
Dan F
 
bad penny said:
Your hourly rate should reflect on your experience. Having said that even if you have little experience your rate should be no less then $40 per hour minimum (per person). Don`t go in there charging $15-$20 per hour thinking your doing something.

I`m definitely up for pics!
Click to expand...

I`ll post some up as soon as I get them.
That`s good to know about the hourly rate. I clean and detail campers for a rental store, I`m thinking the interior will be somewhat similar to cleaning those.

I definitely know I don`t want to do any kind of paint correction.
 
Scrapyard said:
I`ll post some up as soon as I get them.
That`s good to know about the hourly rate. I clean and detail campers for a rental store, I`m thinking the interior will be somewhat similar to cleaning those.

I definitely know I don`t want to do any kind of paint correction.
Click to expand...

If you detail rental campers then youll be fine. This ranks in the same category as far as I`m concerned.
 
Scrapyard said:
That’s kinda what I was thinking, just nervous about the exterior, even though camper exteriors are a hassle. Always a lot of scrubbing.
Click to expand...

You know, things that travel on the road always get more dirty than things that travel in the air.. And you say it stays in a hangar which is even better for not getting all that dirt that blows from the ground..
Go look at it, touch it, see what comes off, and you will know what you need to do..
Good luck with this..
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
You know, things that travel on the road always get more dirty than things that travel in the air.. And you say it stays in a hangar which is even better for not getting all that dirt that blows from the ground..
Go look at it, touch it, see what comes off, and you will know what you need to do..
Good luck with this..
Dan F
Click to expand...

Thanks Dan,
If I can get this account I have a real good shot at his personal car collection, that`s what I really want.
 
As much as I love detailing. I detailed my Neighbors super jacked up F150 FX4 raised like a foot with damn near monster truck tires. I wanted to kill myself I hated it so much lol. I couldn`t imagine doing an airplane. And after his truck I pretty much decided I wouldn`t even take on RV jobs.
 
I have one customer with a 60`s puddle jumper, sounds like the one you are doing is MUCH bigger than his. I think its a piper? MAYBE? Anyway as someone else said I do NOT enjoy doing that plane anywhere near as much as I do cleaning cars. Keep that in mind. It is going to take you 1.5 - 2x longer than you estimate (even if it isnt bad dirty). I have one step polished it, waterless washed it etc over the last 3-4 years and it still takes me longer than I plan every time. I ll get it down someday maybe. As for pricing like we tell everyone figure out how much your time is worth and how long it will take and charge accordingly. There is no way someone else can tell you how to price something.
 
Looked at the aircraft yesterday. It`s a Falcon 900, big plane, very nice.

Exterior. Upon inspection of the exterior it had some dust on the wings, water spots on the underside, sides of the fuselage were clean. Wheel wells were not bad, he said his maintenance guy takes care of most of that. Pilot explained this is condition it will be about 90% of the time when I clean it. There were some exhaust streaks the previous contractor "tried" to clean but failed, this irritates him and the owner. He told me what they were paying, I think I can do it for the same amount.
I did a test spot on the brightwork, it had some tarnish on the face, (looks terrible) he was pleased with what I did in a couple minutes. They were having it polished every 6 months, I`m going to put a package together for exterior wipe down, and brightwork maintenance I think they will like. The main theme/vibe I got from the pilot is the owner likes shiny, cool things, what a coincidence so do I.

Interior. Very nice, white leather, mahogany veneer, light colored fabric. He cleans as part of his post flight inspection. My duty would be no crumb, dirt, dust is left behind. I would need to polish woodwork, clean mirrors, condition leather, remove stains from fabric, vacuum, dust cockpit, and clean computer screens if I want.

For me the money is one thing, but I`m really interested in the challenge. I like to push myself, many times farther than I should.

Having trouble uploading pics, will post as soon as I can.
 
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Scrapyard said:
Looked at the aircraft yesterday. It`s a Falcon 900, big plane, very nice.

Exterior. Upon inspection of the exterior it had some dust on the wings, water spots on the underside, sides of the fuselage were clean. Wheel wells were not bad, he said his maintenance guy takes care of most of that. Pilot explained this is condition it will be about 90% of the time when I clean it. There were some exhaust streaks the previous contractor "tried" to clean but failed, this irritates him and the owner. He told me what they were paying, I think I can do it for the same amount.
I did a test spot on the brightwork, it had some tarnish on the face, (looks terrible) he was pleased with what I did in a couple minutes. They were having it polished every 6 months, I`m going to put a package together for exterior wipe down, and brightwork maintenance I think they will like. The main theme/vibe I got from the pilot is the owner likes shiny, cool things, what a coincidence so do I.

Interior. Very nice, white leather, mahogany veneer, light colored fabric. He cleans as part of his post flight inspection. My duty would be no crumb, dirt, dust is left behind. I would need to polish woodwork, clean mirrors, condition leather, remove stains from fabric, vacuum, dust cockpit, and clean computer screens if I want.

For me the money is one thing, but I`m really interested in the challenge. I like to push myself, many times farther than I should.

Having trouble uploading pics, will post as soon as I can.
Click to expand...

Scrapyard -
Glad you got to see the jet in the hangar..

Here is a link to one that got a paint job -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoC6GtV5mgQ

Really pretty jet ! It has a LOT of real estate that has to be touched on the outside alone..

Now, I`m having trouble understanding something - you said they had it ceramic coated, then, you say after looking at it, there is tarnish on the brighwork. Wouldn`t the ceramic coating be on the brightwork also ?? Did you remove the tarnish and the ceramic coating ??

I would only use Nextzett Cockpit Premium on all the Interior screens, gauges, with a very soft, absorbent microfiber that had been thoroughly inspected to not have anything "extra" stuck in the fibers that would scratch..

Was the link to pricing I sent you close to what they are already paying for the less than adequate work they were getting ??

Don`t forget to really factor in the huge amount of Supplies that will be needed to maintain this.. Gallons of things, way more pads, towels, etc., than you can ever imagine using..

Prepare yourself for a LOT of repetitive arm/shoulder/upper body/ motions that will indeed take their toll on most people unless they are already in pretty good shape.. :)

I hope it all works out for you and in addition to this, project, you will get to see the other very nice vehicles that are around !

Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Scrapyard -
Glad you got to see the jet in the hangar..

Here is a link to one that got a paint job -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoC6GtV5mgQ

Really pretty jet ! It has a LOT of real estate that has to be touched on the outside alone..

Now, I`m having trouble understanding something - you said they had it ceramic coated, then, you say after looking at it, there is tarnish on the brighwork. Wouldn`t the ceramic coating be on the brightwork also ?? Did you remove the tarnish and the ceramic coating ??

I would only use Nextzett Cockpit Premium on all the Interior screens, gauges, with a very soft, absorbent microfiber that had been thoroughly inspected to not have anything "extra" stuck in the fibers that would scratch..

Was the link to pricing I sent you close to what they are already paying for the less than adequate work they were getting ??

Don`t forget to really factor in the huge amount of Supplies that will be needed to maintain this.. Gallons of things, way more pads, towels, etc., than you can ever imagine using..

Prepare yourself for a LOT of repetitive arm/shoulder/upper body/ motions that will indeed take their toll on most people unless they are already in pretty good shape.. :)

I hope it all works out for you and in addition to this, project, you will get to see the other very nice vehicles that are around !

Dan F
Click to expand...

Thanks Dan,
There didn`t appear to be any coating on the brightwork, the face is pretty hazy, but it polished up pretty good. I could tell the paint had a coating, the small amount of dirt on the belly would wipe off easily. The exterior is all white as well, which is good for me.
That`s a great video you linked, if I could work that fast it would be no problem, maybe an extra cup of coffee?

As far as pricing, the link you gave me was right where they were at. I think i`ll probably be in the same ballpark.

Thanks for the tip on the cockpit screens, I don`t foresee needing a lot of product on the rest of the cabin, the owners are pretty conscientious about being clean, and not eating or drinking anything dark in color.

I guess my biggest question now is what to use on the exterior clear coat to clean and perhaps enhance the shine. I`m challenging myself to tackle this. It will probably be the biggest thing I detail, if I enjoy doing it I will pursue to maybe expand into the aircraft industry. The labor side of it doesn`t bother me. My regular job is very labor intensive, so I stay in pretty good shape. Between that and polishing cars on the weekends I regularly work 7 days a week for weeks on end, sometimes going almost 2 months without a day off. I know, I`m a workaholic. My final goal is to have my business thrive and grow to be able to support a comfortable lifestyle, while doing what I enjoy, and I think this may help me get there.
 
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