Airplane pricing help request

Jean-Claude

Jean-Claude

Keeper of the beautiful
Hey gents. I have a few clients wanting their airplanes waxed. I am aware of pitot tubes and care needed around them. But I am not sure what the typical market price is for waxing.



Both are Beechcraft airplanes, one is a Bonanza and the other is a Baron. The Bonanza is wax only, the Baron is wash and wax.



I am just guessing here but believe the wax only should be $225 and the wash and wax $350 for the larger Baron. But knowing a general price would be nice as a reference.



Thanks
 
PM Jose Fernandez of Superior Shine. He has quite a bit of experience with planes and should be able to point you in the right direction in regards to pricing.



I'm sure he will chime in here once he sees your thread.
 
Jean-Claude said:
Hey gents. I have a few clients wanting their airplanes waxed. I am aware of pitot tubes and care needed around them. But I am not sure what the typical market price is for waxing.



Both are Beechcraft airplanes, one is a Bonanza and the other is a Baron. The Bonanza is wax only, the Baron is wash and wax.



I am just guessing here but believe the wax only should be $225 and the wash and wax $350 for the larger Baron. But knowing a general price would be nice as a reference.



Thanks
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You're going to wax the Bonanza without washing it? Lemme guess, a cheapskate doctor? I'd work airplanes hourly. $350 for a wash n wax on a Baron is sweatshop wages, IMO.



TL
 
jeteast99 said:
Tape up the static ports as well
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Chief Pilot blasted off in a hurry one day in a freshly washed plane. The houses were getting smaller but he couldn't figure out why the altimeter wasn't going up. I congratulated him on a thoroughly dumba$$, death defying pre-flight. :eek:



Somehow idiots seem to survive themselves.



TL
 
I think you're selling yourself short, unless they can both be done in one day by one person. Just the clay bar alone will take a long time on an airplane. I have polished planes, and that is a ton of work.
 
JohnKleven said:
I think you're selling yourself short, unless they can both be done in one day by one person. Just the clay bar alone will take a long time on an airplane. I have polished planes, and that is a ton of work.
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John, no polishing. Just wax.





The wax only is a guy who said he doesn't mind washing his plane, he just hates waxing(I wonder why...:nana:)





Thanks for all the input guys.
 


I can't offer any relevant pricing info (other than to tell you they will take much longer to detail than you think) FWIW below are a few things I used to do when detailing a small Cessna...



An airplane has numerous sensitive parts. Pitot tubes and static ports need to be covered or taped off. Remove once finished avoiding a catastrophe, pilots are usually very methodical with pre-flight checks, but...Be careful when detailing around doors, latches, and Dzus fasteners they are fragile and expensive to replace.



Check that your insurance cover is both adequate and up to date and observe all HS&E regulations.



Pre-Wash



When you are washing the upper portion of the craft, only step on the areas designated for that purpose. For larger planes you will need a 6-8 foot ladder or a small portable scaffold for the top of the rear wings and fuselage. Do not use a high-powered pressure machine to wash a plane. They can easily strip wax and paint from the surface. Keep your nozzles and hoses under control at all times and about 2 feet away from the surface. They can cause you to lose your balance or can easily bang into the panels.



Before you begin washing, spray the leading edge and nose/props with a bug remover. This will soften the insect residue which can then be hosed-off. Degreasers are also a must. You can spray-on a degreaser and just hose-off the residue. The most difficult part of removing grease is gaining access. Most of the accumulation is under the belly. A wheeled creeper would certainly make that job a lot easier.



Wash & Rinse:



Aircraft windows are made of Plexiglas which can scratch very easily. I prefer shampooing with soft, clean wash mops or a Wash Glove with extension handle to avoid scratches. The fuselage may be washed with a soft, flow-thru brush that also have extension handles.



Wet Washing will include the landing gear from the top of the gear doors down, belly, top and bottom of wings, engine nacelles, fuselage and all tail surfaces. There will be three things that are never in short supply... bugs, carbon and oil.



Always wet-down and rinse-off aircraft with a front to back motion. Some holes are protected from moisture only in this direction. Avoid spraying water directly into static port tube openings(this should be taped off before you commence washing). When you wash moving parts such as ailerons, elevators, flaps and rudder areas, use your arm as a support.



Drying:



Use 100% cotton terry towels or a commercial forced air dryer to preserve waxes and avoid scratching the windows. Do not use fabric softener on your towels. It is a chemical that remains on the surface and causes streaking. I would also recommend a water filter (CR Spotless) if you are noticing a large amount of water spots as you dry.



Paint



Aircraft paint is usually very dense (hard) so I would suggest Menzerna polish / compounds, a rotary polisher and lots of wool pads and a finishing polish and some foam pads. As always do a test ‘spot’ to ensure the correct abrasive/ pad combination before you commence work.



Paint Protection



I highly recommend a liquid acrylic polymer sealant, as these are the most durable, provide the most UV protection, do not require strenuous rubbing, and can be applied by hand or machine.



Klasse acrylic is a first class sealant product for use on aircraft- . Klasse all in one (AIO) and Klasse Sealant Glaze, the best sealants last about 6 months, with proper care.
 
I'm an airline pilot, and back in the '80's when I was working on my flight ratings, I washed/waxed/polished a few planes. Just a few random thoughts...



As mentioned, make sure you tape off the static ports, and avoid getting wax on anything that looks like it shouldn't be waxed. ;) I would recommend hanging red "Remove Before Flight" flags/streamers *everywhere* you put tape over something crucial, like static ports. Tape off the static ports and pitot tubes *prior to washing*.



The underside of the aircraft will be a mess. It will likely be impossible to get completely clean without a ton of work. Look at the condition of the aircraft and estimate the time it will take you to wash it. Then double it, and add two hours. This will get you close to how long it'll actually take. :D



There is a *ton* of surface area to an aircraft, even the small ones. You will be washing/waxing a huge amount of real estate.



When you wax, use an "away from" movement when waxing around rivets. Removing wax residue from around rivets is a total PITA.



Back in the '80's, most aircraft were painted with Imron paint (I believe it's still popular today); it's very hard, and if you do any polishing, plan on it being the hardest paint you've ever worked on.



You will likely underbid and underestimate (greatly) the time it's going to take.



Have fun! :D



Edit: Just noticed that the owners want you to just wax the Bonanza without washing it first?? That's a no no. Inform them that it must be washed before waxing. I don't know how fast *you* go, but if it were me, I'd bid 10 hours of labor for the Bonanza, and 15 for the Baron... yup, just for a "wash and wax".
 
Supe, when you are washing these, I imagine media on poles(ie. boars hair or microfiber). Do you have suggestions for washing media for planes? Perhaps a natural brush would clean the riveting crevices better?
 
The last time I washed a plane was 1988. Back then, the only soap that we were allowed to use for washing was Ivory Liquid. No APC's allowed, as some APC's have nasty effects on aircraft aluminum.



After washing (and as TOGWT mentioned, pressure washers are a no no), we used an AeroShell polishing compound (it was pretty much a rocks-in-a-bottle compound with strong chemical cleaning action) either by hand or by rotary with an 8" wool pad.



We used extra soft bristled tooth brushes to remove polish/wax from around rivets. While this would be enough to make the average Autopian cringe, it was pretty much the only way to do it at the time.



TOGWT's above post is pretty much spot on, IMO. He's pretty well covered it.



Unfortunately, a boars hair brush will be too gentle to really do much effective cleaning. I'd use a MF or wool mitt, and carefully use a step ladder for the hard to reach areas.



Also, be very careful around the flight control surfaces. Don't deflect the rudder, ailerons, or elevator to clean the area where the control surface joins the aircraft. Any oily substances in that area NEEDS to be there. Also be careful not to direct water in these areas.
 
SuperBee364 said:
The last time I washed a plane was 1988.
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If you ask nice your employer might let you scrub a coupla 7-3s. Orange looks so much nicer when it's shiney. :dance:



TL
 
SuperBee364 said:
The last time I washed a plane was 1988. Back then, the only soap that we were allowed to use for washing was Ivory Liquid. No APC's allowed, as some APC's have nasty effects on aircraft aluminum.



After washing (and as TOGWT mentioned, pressure washers are a no no), we used an AeroShell polishing compound (it was pretty much a rocks-in-a-bottle compound with strong chemical cleaning action) either by hand or by rotary with an 8" wool pad.



We used extra soft bristled tooth brushes to remove polish/wax from around rivets. While this would be enough to make the average Autopian cringe, it was pretty much the only way to do it at the time.



TOGWT's above post is pretty much spot on, IMO. He's pretty well covered it.



Unfortunately, a boars hair brush will be too gentle to really do much effective cleaning. I'd use a MF or wool mitt, and carefully use a step ladder for the hard to reach areas.



Also, be very careful around the flight control surfaces. Don't deflect the rudder, ailerons, or elevator to clean the area where the control surface joins the aircraft. Any oily substances in that area NEEDS to be there. Also be careful not to direct water in these areas.
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Any aircraft should always be lubed after a wash.



Evo 3d
 
TLMitchell said:
If you ask nice your employer might let you scrub a coupla 7-3s. Orange looks so much nicer when it's shiney. :dance:



TL
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Yup, Herb's Red Bellied Warriors look mighty nice when they're all polished up. :D



gmblack3 said:
Any aircraft should always be lubed after a wash.



Evo 3d
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Any maintenance is required by FAA Regulations to be done by an A&P mechanic. Even something as mundane as lubrication. There is no requirement to have flight control surfaces inspected post wash, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to have an FAA licensed A&P mechanic have a look at it.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Yup, Herb's Red Bellied Warriors look mighty nice when they're all polished up. :D







Any maintenance is required by FAA Regulations to be done by an A&P mechanic. Even something as mundane as lubrication. There is no requirement to have flight control surfaces inspected post wash, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to have an FAA licensed A&P mechanic have a look at it.
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Its not really required to be done by an A&P, just signed off by one. I dont think you would find too many A&Ps that would sign off work for someone they dont know, at least this one would not. :)
 
gmblack3 said:
Its not really required to be done by an A&P, just signed off by one. I dont think you would find too many A&Ps that would sign off work for someone they dont know, at least this one would not. :)
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Dad used to have a 172 on lease back at a local FBO back in the '70's and 80's. We had a hard time getting the FBO's A&P's to even sign off on us changing the oil. Eventually they let us do it... in return for a discount on renting the plane.
 
Someone else has posted that it might require you to have a rider policy added to your business insurance of 2-3 MILLION dollars (no Dr.Evil impression needed) if other planes are around in a hanger. If for some reason you cause an incident that involves damage to other planes, you could be held liable.



Not trying to keep you from doing planes, but some airport facilities won't even let you enter to work within a hanger facility unless you can prove that you have this insurance or are bonded (self-insured and/or worth that much) to cover such a liability. Something else to keep in mind!
 
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