AIO? Menzerna?

M

mlebarron

New member
I've got a 98 Grand Cherokee with swirls on pretty much the entire car, they can only be seen in the sun or bright reflections (it's a tannish color). I have Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish and AFPP. Looks good with these, but I'm getting a PC 7424. I'm debating whether I should get AIO or go with the menzerna Intensive and Final polish to get rid of these swirls (or at least most of them, since I know it's not rotary).



Also, should I throw in some P21S? Or stick with just the AFPP?



Thanks everyone!
 
I was disappointed with Menzerna with the PC but I used it on a black and a white car. Some folks here recommend 3m Perfect it III Machine Glaze for swirls. I used the Menzerna and the PI III MG followed by GEPC and AIO , topped with SG on the white car and I don't see swirls now. But as always YMMV.



Just my $.02
 
Welcome mlebarron,:xyxthumbs



Of the products you listed only IP can remove swirls. Bill Ds experience with IP & FP is not uncommon as they are considered by some to be difficult to use. AIO is a chemical cleaner, similar in nature to GEPC, and really will not touch your swirls. It is a great product however and I use it on all my cars as a final "gloss" or cleaning step to set up SG.



To your swirls. For your cutting step I would also recommend you get some 3M PI-IIIMG and some DACP for use with your PC. DACP may create a little haze but I'd suggest you really work it through and I'll bet you get an excellent gloss. If you do get a haze I'd follow it with the 3MPI-III or FP. You're swirls should be pretty much gone at this point.



I like to use AIO to set up the finish. It is probably a little overkill but I like the liquid feel and look AIO creates. I'm a fan of SG topped with Blitz or Pinnacle. I have not used GEPC and AFPP but many here swear by them and I'll bet they would give you good results on top of you swirl removal as well.



Good luck with your new PC.



Russ
 
so does the 3MPI-III remove swirls? or is it the finer polishing step after DACP (as FP would be)?



Anyone have reasons for DACP over IP? or vice versa?



I mentioned this somewhere else as well... but I do have the orange peel effect going on... will these do anything to that? or do I just live with it?



So much information! Sometimes tough to make sense of it all. Thanks for all your help
 
mlebarron,



yes, 3M PI-IIIMG (05937) will remove minor swirls when combined with the right pad. Not to add more information to the confusion ;) but you'll be working with a pad/polish combination and it is the combination of the two that really determines how abrasive your process is. There are several threads on PC usage and pad selection...I'd start in the "Hall of Fame." I use the orange pads from CMA or Griot's. It is a mild pad that will help you with swirl removal and will also help in enhancing gloss.



I use DACP when I need a little more abrasive power than PI-III to remove more stubborn swirls or microabraisions, etc. I like DACP as it breaks down as you use it and in general I get a good gloss from it as well as its ability to remove heavy swirls and imperfections. You might follow DACP with PI-III or FP (your preference) if you get a little hazing from DACP. I have not used IP so I can't help you there.



Orange peel...:eek: I expect your Jeep is a 2 stage paint with a clear coat? If so, not much can be done. I have cars with both single and 2-stage paints and just live with the imperfections applied by the manufacturer. :nixweiss Don't get me wrong you WILL get great results with the investment in time, products and application techniques you are making. I'll bet with the right amount of work your Jeep will look new.



Later,



Russ
 
DACP is more aggresive than IP. IP will remove some small swirls, but it won't touch anything very deep. Maybe IP will be fine on your light colored car. With DACP you might want to use a polish before going to wax. With the IP you have the FP and can then go to wax. One other note, what every product you do use, keep in mind with swirls you might have to use more than one pas depending on the results you want to get.
 
I've been eyeing the DACP for a while now. I have PI II RC Fine Cut at the moment. Does anyone know how this compares to DACP?
 
In your opinion, would getting DACP and FP be too far apart on the abrasive spectrum? ie. FP won't get the swirls out, but DACP might be a little much? :nixweiss From the posts/products mentioned so far I gather it goes DACP, IP, PI-III, FP (most to least abrasive).



Yeah... two stage with a clear coat... I guess I could say it adds texture with a "look at me I'm textured and rugged" look... yeah... that's it :xyxthumbs
 
mlebarron said:
In your opinion, would getting DACP and FP be too far apart on the abrasive spectrum? ie. FP won't get the swirls out, but DACP might be a little much? :nixweiss
Click to expand...

I do not think DACP and FP are too far apart on the abrasive spectrum to be used together. Used correctly, DACP with a "fine" pad can produce a finish you could just protect...except for the perfectionists here of course. I have DACP and 3M PI-IIIMG in my detailing cabinet and have, just in the past week, tried FP and have added it to the group. There are so many products to choose from and all are dependent on preparation and application methods. These just happen to be three I have used with some success. I'd suggest you have 2 or 3 products that are non-filling and vary in abrasive strength on hand to address any type of job. The trick, as many will tell you here, is to use the LEAST abrasive product possible and use them only when your paint needs them.

mlebarron said:
From the posts/products mentioned so far I gather it goes DACP, IP, PI-III, FP (most to least abrasive).
Click to expand...

I think this is "roughly" :) correct...



Any of these, used correctly, will make your paint look great. Are you going to stay with GEPC and AFPP to seal/protect the finish?



Let us know what you order and how it goes.



Cheers,



Russ
 
Thanks everyone! I purchases some 3M PI-III MG and we'll see how that goes. I'm sticking with the Blackfire for now, as I've reached and surpassed my initial investment max :)



I've already got two coats of AFPP on there, should I just use the PI-III to get it off? something else that will take it off better?



I'm planning on just doing half the hood to start, get some before/after pics. I'll try to let you know how it goes.



Thanks,

Michael
 
mlebarron said:
...I purchases some 3M PI-III MG and we'll see how that goesI've already got two coats of AFPP on there, should I just use the PI-III to get it off? something else that will take it off better?..
Click to expand...



*I* would go over the hood with a little Iso alcohol/water mix after washing it. It'll only take a few minutes. Sometimes the PI-III MG residue becomes pretty bad if you're taking off a healthy layer of protection like your BFII. BUT, that's the only reason to consider it. The PI-III is gonna be removing PAINT when you take out the swirls, and the BF's a LOT easier to cut than paint is.
 
so the iso alcohol/water will remove the AFPP? What should the mixture strength be? Even if too strong, it won't hurt the paint I assume.



After looking around a lot more and comparing pics of swirls and what people used to get them out, I have a feeling I'll be purchasing some DACP to deal with mine. Would you recommend anything stronger? or just adjust the pad with the DACP until I get them out? Given time I figure I can get them out... taking the extra time to do it would probably be best for my first time anyway.
 
I thought IP would remove 2000 grits swirls and DACP was good for 1000-1500 grit markings. Therefore the order should be :

IP - DACP- FP -ect. :nixweiss



Please comment or correct my assessment.
 
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by mlebarron

From the posts/products mentioned so far I gather it goes DACP, IP, PI-III, FP (most to least abrasive).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I thought IP would remove 2000 grits swirls and DACP was good for 1000-1500 grit markings. Therefore the order should be :

IP - DACP- FP -ect.



IP removes 2000 grit sandpaper marks and DACP removing 1000-1500 sandpaper makrs are correct.



BUT, the higher # grit, the finer the sand paper is.



I doubt you will take 1000 grit sand paper to wood. 150 is what I use to break in wood and finish up with 220, possibly 400 if I want that certain OCD finish.



DACP - PI III MG - IP - FP is my take on agressive to fine.
 
MG is more agressive than IP??



I'm not so sure about that one. Why did you come to that conclusion?



I agree with DACP is more agressive than IP... but not sure about MG more than IP..





PI-III rubbing compound maybe...
 
If you are thinking about going with Menzerna you should know that CMA now has Power Gloss in stock. http://www.properautocare.com/powergloss32oz.html



Haven't tried this, but I really don't have the need for a more abrasive product yet. Sounds like it is on a comparable level of abrasiveness as DACP. To quote the catalog write-up, "Power Gloss allows you to remove 1000 to 1500 grit paint defects in light color paints with very little or no follow-up polishing. Black, red and dark color paints may require minimal polishing with Menzerna Final Polish to restore surface gloss." They also mention that this is a professional compound and recommend that for optimum performance it should be applied with a circular polisher (although a PC can be used.)



Just FYI if you didn't already know.



Good luck with your swirls, just remember the PC isn't a miracle worker. Spend time breaking down the product and and inspect your work by spritzing with a 50/50 alcohol and water wipe down.
 
I was less than impressed with IP when I did my entire truck a while back. Then I hit the hood with DACP amd some 3M "final". Grocery store elevated lights at night showed that about 95% os the swirls were removed. I was impressed.
 
I came to that conclusion because of how each product worked for me. I would give the slight edge to 3M PI III MG. The IP is similar stuff but a little less edge to it. Same kind of pads (Lake Country Polishing and rotary on my aunts black MB coupe) and half the hood with each. 3M seemed to remove more swirls. Maybe its just me? YMMV.
 
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