Addicted to detailing

T

Timbo

New member
I am a weekend detailer who enjoys cranking the music and detailing the family cars. This forum has been great (and expensive) in getting products for my cars. I have a used 2014 white Jeep Cherokee which I plan to to wash, clay, use black fire polish, BFWD. The question I have is it too much to use black fire total polish and seal and then wax it with Collinite 845? Or do I wax then seal, or not wax at all? Am I taking too many steps with my addictive personality?

Thanks all.
 
Welcome Timbo :) You can absolutely use BF Total Polish and Seal then wax with 845. I applied Hydro2 then Midnight Sun today. What kind of music do you listen to while detailing? (I do the same thing)
 
Your layering products and the people that sell the products will be thrilled. I am not sure its time or $ well spent. I have used BFWD and its really a great product. I would stop there, any wax will only cause issues if you want to apply another layer of BFWD.

I would suggest you spend you time on lewaring how to properly polish the paint. Once you get that, look into coatings. Your cars will look great and last like you cannot believe. Just my 2 cents. I was exactly where you are now in 2008.

Welcome to the sickness
 
Although time and life can take you away, there is no instant cure.

You 'can' layer a pure wax over a sealant, but not the other way around. Bear in mind that a sealant needs to bond to the surface and a layer of wax would likely drastically reduce the bonding and subsequent durability. The 'trick' to layering a pure wax over sealant is to ensure the 'wax' does not contain any chemical cleaners.

Having 'said' the above, following clay and polish (as needed), I tend to use a pre-cleaner or an AIO (all in one) cleaner/synthetic, then a layer or two of the sealant of that same brand (In my case, I'm doing Duragloss 601/105 followed by 601/111). I'm careful to wash with a soap (or rinseless) that does not remove a durable polish and I often follow a wash with a spray on/wipe off wax (DG Aquawax).
My approach may also be overkill, but I like the idea of the extra protection. I'm careful not to get too crazy with layers as there's a point of diminishing return where sealant can actually be removed by the process.

There's nothing like a vehicle (especially an older vehicle) that continues to look brand new!
 
IMO the only reasons to ever layer different products are:

-You want to
-You're after some specific result that you know/suspect can only be achieved that way
-You know/suspect that the products are compatible
-Somebody's paying you to do it

I would *NEVER* apply Collinite 845 over top of another LSP. NEVER. Not for looks, not for durability. Though I do use it over KAIO/etc. in certain specific instances.
 
I dont layer anything that doesnt require it in the initial process..
Its to me, just a waste of time and product..

Regarding Collenite 845 - this stuff was originally made for coating electrical insulators, so they wouldnt get wet and start shorting out..
The people who make it have put enough product in it to last a long time because how many Linemen are going to go up to every pole and "Layer the Insulators"... :)

I believe that if you put a good correction on that vehicle, then put the Blackfire great product on, that should be enough and that anything you put on top of it that is not their product, might (as has already been said above), have chemicals in it that will remove your Blackfire product...

In field testing Collenite 845s in very rainy, snowy, Washington State, a good correction, wipe down, and a good layer of Collenite 845s has lasted well through a fall, winter and beginning of spring on several trucks of my Clients...

Good luck with your research..
Dan F
 
Timbo said:
Am I taking too many steps with my addictive personality?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
First, Welcome! I think most folks that sign up on Autopia have asked themselves this very question.

Accumulator said:
IMO the only reasons to ever layer different products are:

-You want to
-You're after some specific result that you know/suspect can only be achieved that way
-You know/suspect that the products are compatible
-Somebody's paying you to do it
Click to expand...
Well said!
 
Well many manufacturers suggest that an additional layer of sealant or wax can provide additional durability and/or shine. Some skeptics would suggest that they're just trying to sell more product. Maybe, but these folks do extensive objective product testing for both durability and shine. I suggest that they know that an additional layer of sealant provides greater durability AND/OR a layer of wax will produce more shine.

Unfortunately, we have no real data. If a single layer provides 3 months of protection, does another layer offer another 3, 2 or 1? We just don't know for sure. And sure, an additional layer may not be required...but if it offers greater durability, where's the harm. Especially going into winter, I like the idea of extra protection against the salt and the 'touchless' or coin-op pressure wash since I just can't really do a 2 bucket or rinseless wash in the evil freezing cold weather of NE winter.
 
I think technically the correct answer is it depends on which products you have. To say that applying any wax over any sealant is pointless, is generalizing the properties of every wax on the market into a single category and we know that's not true. Some waxes last longer than others. You can use different products to get different results.

I'll give you a specific example...

The last car I detailed for this dealership was this Mercedes C230. (Pre polish pic)

20151018_115023.jpg


After I completed polishing, I washed the car to remove any polish residue. (Fun fact: I've had that baseball bat since I was in 2nd grade and never leave home without it :) )

20151018_173659.jpg


After detailing the engine bay and washing the car, I applied CarPro Hydro2. I love applying this sealant since it's so easy and I can add rain repellency to the glass and protect the wheels at the same time. It also makes drying the vehicle a lot easier. After polishing, there's no protection on the paint so water doesn't get off the paint easily. After using Hydro2, a quick lap around the car with a blower gets 95% of the water off the car.

20151018_175909.jpg


After blow drying the car, I could've stopped there. The paint, glass, wheels and trim are now protected. But in my experience, adding a layer of a "cosmetic" carnauba will add a lot of slickness to the paint and the alluring aroma of carnauba to the car that's going to spend all of it's time in the showroom.

20151018_192335.jpg


In this scenario, I don't think there's a replacement for applying a coat of a quality carnauba wax. The sum of the smell, feel and looks can't be matched by anything else. If your scenario puts priority on pure durability, then this sealant/wax combo wouldn't be the best choice. I like the fact that we have options now to tweak our process for the best results depending on our priorities. There's never going to be a single jar of wax that covers everyone's personal needs, just like there will never be a single car that covers everyone's personal needs.

20151018_183325.jpg


But I think everyone here will be happy to add their 2 cents, just take them all with a "grain of salt" while considering that their needs are not your needs.
 
It's easy enough to test whether layering results in increased durability...test your stuff yourself and see if it works *for you* and then you can ignore what other people think ;) Just remember to equalize the start-times as that's the variable I suspect might get overlooked. Heh heh, I don't layer anything unless I've *proven* to myself that there's a significant benefit and no drawback (don't overdo it with FK1000P or you might regret it...remember, that stuff was originally formulated to be a mold-release product, not a beauty wax).

Stokdgs- Since I hardly ever ignore what *YOU* post :D .... I'll say how interesting I find our differing experiences with 845.

I'd used it back in the day but got into other LSPs. Decided to try it again and wasn't wowed by the durability...OK as a "bright, M16-like liquid wax but not durable enough for wheels/etc. and just not in the same league as 476S. Then somebody here (can't remember who it was, but he had a GM F-body..) suggested I try layering it with a wait between coats. Gee, to my surprise it really did boost the durability for me. Still not like 476S, and not the durability that you're getting, but it did improve for me. Once again, that "YMMV!" thing rears its head...
 
timbo, don't be afraid to experiment with different combinations. I am blackfire fan and love the look of bfms/bfwd. I recently did a side by side of bfwd vs. bfms/bfwd. I started with bftpns, applied two coats of bfwd and allowed it to cure for 24hrs. the next day, i taped off the hood and applied bfms to one half and wiped it off when dry. I honestly couldn't tell any real difference in the two sides. my iphone pics weren't very good and the bfms was not allowed to cure for any long length of time (sometimes that can assist in the appearance) but to me, a couple coats of bfwd still looked outstanding and the layered side with bfms looked the same. I still think it's all in the prep, so take your time with your wash, clay and polish and whatever you decide to use will look great. 
 
Vega@Autopia said:
I think technically the correct answer is it depends on which products you have. To say that applying any wax over any sealant is pointless, is generalizing the properties of every wax on the market into a single category and we know that's not true. Some waxes last longer than others. You can use different products to get different results......
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in my initial post, I feel that it's important that any subsequent layer be a pure sealant or wax. Products (waxes or sealants) that contain (chemical) cleaners are good for an initial application, but a subsequent application will likely negate the original application to some degree, so as to not produce the desired layering. This is somewhat easy within product lines. For example Klasse All In One (KAIO) and Klasse Sealant Glaze (KSG), where multiple layers of KSG is the norm rather than the exception. This is also why I follow DG 601/105 with 601/111.
For cross product lines, you have to be more experimental and evaluate more closely.
 
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