Acid Washing?

C

CharlesW

The Rainmaker
Richy's thread about his White Trans Am clean up reminded me of something I heard mentioned at the auto auction some time back.
They run two lanes of cars and do everything at various stations along the way. Kind of like the tunnel car washes except they do whatever has been requested to a vehicle.
The thing that came to mind was a seller mentioning what a great job they did bringing back a white car he had for sale.
They told him they acid washed every white car that they did a full exterior detail on. The guy that runs the shop really believes in acid washing. He thinks it is something that almost transforms a white car. He said you would have to see it to believe how much crap just rolls off.
This is a true production line operation that does 300+ cars per week. They aren't hacks and the cars come out looking pretty good. I have no idea what they use for brands of product since it is either dispensed through a system of hoses or kept in generic bottles.
The only two things I have noticed that I would take exception to is wet carpets after extraction, but in fairness to them, it might have just been done minutes before. The other thing is the engine dressing. After they clean the engine compartment, they just spray a bunch of dressing, (from one of those overhead dispensing hoses), all over the entire engine compartment.

Back on topic.
How many of you have experience with acid washes?
I don't think it would be something for the hobby detailer at all, but it might have a place for the professional. Chances are, you would need a fixed location to make it work, but I really have no idea.
 
Are the "decontamination" washes sold by FK1 & others included in this type of wash? I don't know that much about them, but are they some type of acid followed by something else? I believe it's a three step process.
 
PRO makes an acid wash product called Power Lift fallout remover. I bought a gallon to give it a shot. The stuff did absolutely nothing to the paint and I followed the directions to a T. Needlesss to say I returned it back to the supplier in exchange for some other products. Maybe other products work well just don't try that stuff.
 
JaredPointer said:
Are the "decontamination" washes sold by FK1 & others included in this type of wash? I don't know that much about them, but are they some type of acid followed by something else? I believe it's a three step process.
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Good point about the "decontamination" system.
The term "acid washing" may be somewhat generic and true acid may not even be involved.
Whatever product is used, I would think some sort of neutralizing would have to happen after the initial cleaning.
In the case of acid wheel cleaners, a simple water rinse seems to be all that is necessary, but I don't think I would feel comfortable with just a water rinse on the overall car.
Strong cleaners seem to have some less than desirable side effects on a lot of the car components.
When I had the streaking on the painted/dyed plastic body panels of the Montana, I used acid wash, acid wheel cleaner and even Easy-Off oven cleaner and none of it appeared to have any effect, good or bad.
I think Ron Ketcham was a promoter of an acid wash system at one time, but I don't always give his comments a lot of consideration. :D
 
Acid washing has some advantages and disadvantages. The possibility of chemically damaging parts of the car is much greater when using acids. The type of acid and how much it is dilluted plays a big part. In certain cases I will use acid meant to clean wheels as a window treatment to remove water spots. In the past I have permanently damaged wheels using acid and I have seen where other detailers have ruined windshields because it causes them to permanently haze. I have also seen plastic fake chrome trim ruined around the window edges and in one instance acid ruined the side mirrors of a Mercedes.

Bottom line is acid should be used with caution. Most things that acid is used for have safer alternatives that may take longer to work but are much safer.
 
Mr. W - Keep in mind that I am not familiar with the ABC or FK1 kits, but I think the second wash is the neutralizer of the first wash. For the life of me I can't remember, but it was a "hot topic" for a few months a year or two ago. I think it was when FK1 was really getting a lot of hype on the detailing forums.
 
JaredPointer said:
Mr. W - Keep in mind that I am not familiar with the ABC or FK1 kits, but I think the second wash is the neutralizer of the first wash. For the life of me I can't remember, but it was a "hot topic" for a few months a year or two ago. I think it was when FK1 was really getting a lot of hype on the detailing forums.
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Jared:
Keep in mind that my expertise is confined to an overheard conversation and a few posts or articles by Ketch over the years.
The conversation and Richy's thread just kind of triggered a little curiosity on my part.
For me, any product that is considered acid is a little scary.
Kind of like Troy said, it's a product or system to be used with care. (And not by me.:))
 
Use of acid in fleet washing(semi trucks and trailers) is common place.We have done it in the past,but the 2 step process allows little room for error and the chemicals aren't user friendly either.
Basically you apply and acid the a soap to neutralize the acid.On regulaly maintained fleet account this translates to almost to brushing of body panels.However,the acid can and will etch glass if allowed to dry or applied while temps are high.
We have gone to a sodium hydroxide wash that does a great job.It still has some downfalls,but easier on user and vehicle that theacid/soap 2 step process.
 
Personally I would think the issues that could arise from the damage the acid wash could do to portions of the car other then the paint outweight the benefits...
 
JaredPointer said:
Are the "decontamination" washes sold by FK1 & others included in this type of wash? I don't know that much about them, but are they some type of acid followed by something else? I believe it's a three step process.
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I don't know what is in the decon kit by FK1 but I have it here...you start with washing the car to clean all loose dirt off...Step one is the contamination remover its a very milky solvent based product that sits on the car...wash that off and dry the top parts of the car. Step Two Sub surface contamination removal clear looking yellow liquid that has no smell or suds...this removes the rail dust and such.

Step three is a green neutralization and finial clean much like a car soap, sudzie and quite slick.

The cars come out squeakier clean and you can see that everything has been removed.

I use this very rarely only because its a long process...where I have used it effectively is on older cars with lots of old ground in dirt or cars that have a lot of old wax and product that is in the cracks and such....that's the one good thing about this wash process is it gets in every crack and washes away everything in its way.
 
Squirtgun is right one. Way to go Scott.

Acid washing is not something that should be done without training. IT CAN KILL YOU!!! IF YOU GET MORE THAN A TABLESPOON ON YOU, IT WILL KILL YOU.

Do you get how dangerous it is?
 
Scooter said:
Squirtgun is right one. Way to go Scott.

Acid washing is not something that should be done without training. IT CAN KILL YOU!!! IF YOU GET MORE THAN A TABLESPOON ON YOU, IT WILL KILL YOU.

Do you get how dangerous it is?
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Well, I would really like some more details. What kind of acid will kill you with one tablespoon? Just getting it on your skin? That's a pretty amazing statement to be so "blanketed." I'd just like to know is all, since I am unfamiliar.
 
JaredPointer said:
Well, I would really like some more details. What kind of acid will kill you with one tablespoon? Just getting it on your skin? That's a pretty amazing statement to be so "blanketed." I'd just like to know is all, since I am unfamiliar.
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I always wash my car with Hydrochloric acid and have been fine...:D
 
Scooter said:
Squirtgun is right one. Way to go Scott.

Acid washing is not something that should be done without training. IT CAN KILL YOU!!! IF YOU GET MORE THAN A TABLESPOON ON YOU, IT WILL KILL YOU.

Do you get how dangerous it is?
Click to expand...
JaredPointer said:
Well, I would really like some more details. What kind of acid will kill you with one tablespoon? Just getting it on your skin? That's a pretty amazing statement to be so "blanketed." I'd just like to know is all, since I am unfamiliar.
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All acids and acid containing products need to be treated with respect.
The one acid that I know is extremely dangerous is Hydrofluoric acid. It will eat through your skin and attack the calcium in your body. You know, your bones get eaten up. It is very bad stuff! see the info from Wikipedia.
Wikipedia said:
Hydrofluoric acid is corrosive and a contact poison. It should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to other mineral acids, in part because of its low dissociation constant, which allows HF to penetrate tissue more quickly. Symptoms of exposure to hydrofluoric acid may not be immediately evident. HF interferes with nerve function and burns may not initially be painful. Accidental exposures can go unnoticed, delaying treatment and increasing the extent and seriousness of the injury.[2] HF is known to etch bone, and since it penetrates the skin it essentially breaks the person's bones without destroying the skin.
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I can't imagine that Hydrofluoric acid is used to wash cars, but I do think I have read where it has been used in some wheel cleaners.
 
Personally I don't think I have ever run into a situation where I thought you know what would work good on get off the dirt on this car...acid! I would rather it take me and extra hour and do it the way thats not only safer for the paint but for myself too...
 
Stephan said:
Personally I don't think I have ever run into a situation where I thought you know what would work good on get off the dirt on this car...acid! I would rather it take me and extra hour and do it the way thats not only safer for the paint but for myself too...
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The same is true for me, but I also haven't run into a situation where I thought a rotary or a pretty aggressive compound would be the thing for me to use. Part of that is because I don't have experience and the capability to get the most out of them.
Those that use the rotary and aggressive compounds daily aren't too concerned about it since they know what they are doing. Maybe the same thing is true for those that do the acid washing on a regular basis.

It's definitely not for me.
 
The acid in a decom wash is nothing like the acid in a wheel type acid....I have used a decom system a few times..and it does clean paint and does not harm it...I use the Auto Int system which is acid free and used by most car dealers to remove rail dust and surface contaminants..Ford has a service bulletin out that states all cars will be washed with this system before delivery...

When I got my new truck it was done and I watched it being done...the grime just oozed out of the paint...

now the FK1 system uses a acid..oxalic acid..made from spinach..lol....I never used it

its a three stage wash for both..

I do not know much on the FK1 one..but the Auto Int you use a acid nuetralizer first...then a Alkaline Neutralizer..then wash with a PH nuetral soap....

the steps

Acid Neutralizer

Removes all waxes and storage stains. Neutralizes acids which may have been deposited during transportation and storage. Removes lot stains, wax build up. Excellent prewash for body shops - removes silicones, waxes and other contaminates before sanding. Saves time when applied to used vehicles, removes oxidation, reduces buff time.


the Alkaline Neutralizer


The second step of our Neutralization System, Alkaline Neutralizer deep cleans painted surfaces to remove Alkaline Deposits. Also desolves ferrous metal particles while breaking their bond to the paint so that they safely and easily float away.


The
Detail Wash

A fine vehicle wash solution designed to be the final step in neutralization, it returns the paint to it's original factory pH level. Excellent for every day use. pH7.0 removes the dirt without stripping waxes, polishes or sealants.

this system beats claying hands down...except for stuff like overspray ...

your paint comes out so smooth and squeaky clean....do a bag test like you do for claying...its free of surface stuff...nice and clean....


AL
 
Al how is it for everything else like trim and glass, and any other type of plastic materials, if its safe for that?
 
CharlesW said:
The same is true for me, but I also haven't run into a situation where I thought a rotary or a pretty aggressive compound would be the thing for me to use. Part of that is because I don't have experience and the capability to get the most out of them.
Those that use the rotary and aggressive compounds daily aren't too concerned about it since they know what they are doing. Maybe the same thing is true for those that do the acid washing on a regular basis.

It's definitely not for me.
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I agree, unless a paint is dead I never use my rotary with an aggressive compound as it will just make it worst then better...the only reason I tend to use a rotary more often is speed. I can just work it faster.

I see your point, I just wonder how safe the acid wash is for the rest of the car...other then the paint..
 
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