Hey everybody i just joined today. I am a part-time beginner detailer. I have a flex 3401 da pollisher and i use menzerna polishes. I would like to know if the 3m final polish gives a better shine than the menz106. Also I have all the pads yellow, orange,green black.white.gold, and red. should in invest in a cicluar polsher? What is the best way to acheive the ultimate deep wet look shine? I charge for my work and I want to my customers the best shine for thier money.
acheiving the ultimate shine
- Thread starter shinewite
- Start date
Old Pirate
AMG Classic Car Detailing
Ather using one of these 3m final polish or menz 106, you will need 85rd or 3M Ultrafina for that final polishing and shine your looking for on a red or black pad.
seeking knowledge
most of the cars that I do have very bad swril marks and a few have moderate oxidation. I start with the 106 on a orange pad, or intense polish on an orange pad, then go to 106 on a white or red pad. I have to make sometimes 3 too 4 passes with the fles3401 da do I need a cicular polisher or stronger polish or maybe a wool pad
most of the cars that I do have very bad swril marks and a few have moderate oxidation. I start with the 106 on a orange pad, or intense polish on an orange pad, then go to 106 on a white or red pad. I have to make sometimes 3 too 4 passes with the fles3401 da do I need a cicular polisher or stronger polish or maybe a wool pad
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
While you asked a very simple question, it actually requires a pretty complex answer that could forum the basis of a book.
There are two parts two creating the ultimate deep shine: the actual shine of the paint which you control by altering the paint's surface (the prep work); and the layers of waxes, sealants, or glazes you add on top of the paint.
It's all in the prep! Most professional detailers would agree that the 90% or more (I would argue at least 90%) of the shine is in the work. To get the ultimate deep shine the surface of the paint has to made as flat as possible, even at the microscopic level. When is uneven and marred, reflected light actually scatters or refracts, as it is sent in different directions. Taking paint to its highest level and ensuring the sharpest, richest, and clearest gloss requires leveling the paint as much as possible.
If we keep in mind that the smoother the paint is at the microscopic level the greater it will shine, the prep work is a matter of using the right tools to level the paint at this level. Experience is going to be the best teacher in helping you select the best tools and technique to manipulate the paint for the best shine. There is no blanket answer or no set process will give the ultimate shine on all paint systems. There are too many variables, such as skill level, pad type, paint type, paint workability, abrasives, lubricants, humidity, temperature, etc. However there are good recommendations that can get you heading in the right direction.
Most boutique level detailers I know will spend hours and hours and hours polishing the paint once it looks perfect, trying to refine the paint to get the ultimate gloss. A good friend and great detailer once told me he doesn't even start polishing until the defects are removed. Meaning that removing swirl marks and scratches (macroscopic defects) is the easy part for him. It is the hours spent afterwards (when post people would be very happy with the results) trying different final polishes, pads, speeds, machines, and techniques to find what gives the ultimate results to their trained eyes. It should be noted that these detailers are often getting paid big money for their experience in these cases.
So there is no set answer to what final polish and pad gives the best results all of the time. In my finish paint arsenal I have all of Menzerna final polishes, 3M's Ultrafina, Meguiar's M205, M80, M82, and M09, Mark V polishes, and a couple of other brands as well as just about every finish pad there is. For final polishing with a rotary polisher I will usually find that either Menzerna PO85rd or PO87mc and a Lake Country Black pad or 3M's Ultrafine (ultrafina) polishes can achieve phenomenal results on most paint finishes. The rotary polisher will tend to achieve a higher gloss most of the time because it can break down the abrasives more evenly. With a dual action or random orbital polisher I will tend to reach for M205 from Meguiars, as the non-diminishing abrasives will finish equally well regardless of machine.
If you are using a Flex, I would start with Meguiar's M205. If you grab a rotary, 3M's Ultrafina is going to be the most forgiving.
Once the paint is at its fullest potential, the focus achieves on alerting the natural shine of the paint by selecting the combination of products that will not only protect the paint but add shine and gloss. I think Blackfire's Wet Ice over Fire kit does a great job of adding gloss, depth, richness, and wetness to the paint. Alternatively, I also like to select various waxes and sealants besides this for certain situations. Again experience and personal preference are going to precede anything I can tell you.
There are two parts two creating the ultimate deep shine: the actual shine of the paint which you control by altering the paint's surface (the prep work); and the layers of waxes, sealants, or glazes you add on top of the paint.
It's all in the prep! Most professional detailers would agree that the 90% or more (I would argue at least 90%) of the shine is in the work. To get the ultimate deep shine the surface of the paint has to made as flat as possible, even at the microscopic level. When is uneven and marred, reflected light actually scatters or refracts, as it is sent in different directions. Taking paint to its highest level and ensuring the sharpest, richest, and clearest gloss requires leveling the paint as much as possible.
If we keep in mind that the smoother the paint is at the microscopic level the greater it will shine, the prep work is a matter of using the right tools to level the paint at this level. Experience is going to be the best teacher in helping you select the best tools and technique to manipulate the paint for the best shine. There is no blanket answer or no set process will give the ultimate shine on all paint systems. There are too many variables, such as skill level, pad type, paint type, paint workability, abrasives, lubricants, humidity, temperature, etc. However there are good recommendations that can get you heading in the right direction.
Most boutique level detailers I know will spend hours and hours and hours polishing the paint once it looks perfect, trying to refine the paint to get the ultimate gloss. A good friend and great detailer once told me he doesn't even start polishing until the defects are removed. Meaning that removing swirl marks and scratches (macroscopic defects) is the easy part for him. It is the hours spent afterwards (when post people would be very happy with the results) trying different final polishes, pads, speeds, machines, and techniques to find what gives the ultimate results to their trained eyes. It should be noted that these detailers are often getting paid big money for their experience in these cases.
So there is no set answer to what final polish and pad gives the best results all of the time. In my finish paint arsenal I have all of Menzerna final polishes, 3M's Ultrafina, Meguiar's M205, M80, M82, and M09, Mark V polishes, and a couple of other brands as well as just about every finish pad there is. For final polishing with a rotary polisher I will usually find that either Menzerna PO85rd or PO87mc and a Lake Country Black pad or 3M's Ultrafine (ultrafina) polishes can achieve phenomenal results on most paint finishes. The rotary polisher will tend to achieve a higher gloss most of the time because it can break down the abrasives more evenly. With a dual action or random orbital polisher I will tend to reach for M205 from Meguiars, as the non-diminishing abrasives will finish equally well regardless of machine.
If you are using a Flex, I would start with Meguiar's M205. If you grab a rotary, 3M's Ultrafina is going to be the most forgiving.
Once the paint is at its fullest potential, the focus achieves on alerting the natural shine of the paint by selecting the combination of products that will not only protect the paint but add shine and gloss. I think Blackfire's Wet Ice over Fire kit does a great job of adding gloss, depth, richness, and wetness to the paint. Alternatively, I also like to select various waxes and sealants besides this for certain situations. Again experience and personal preference are going to precede anything I can tell you.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
While stepping up to a rotary/circular polisher is going to give you quicker results when removing defects, it might not always be the best choice.
Meguiars M105 with a Lake Country Orange Power Pad on a Flex can remove some very serious defects, fairly quickly. Make sure you are using slow armspeed and moderate pressure. M105 doesn't break down like a traditonal polish, so the longer you use it the more it will cut but you have to keep your pad very clean.
michakaveli
New member
Good post Todd. Question about using a black or blue pad when "jeweling" the finish. From other posts/threads many will address using either color or even a red pad. In reference to selecting the right pad for the specific finish one may be working on, is it as simple as painstakingly playing with those various combinations to determine what works best?
T
TOGWT
Guest
As burnishing is done with a zero abrasive pad I think it may be as much a personal preference as anything else, although some detailer's say they get better results with differing machines (i.e. ROB /Rotary / Flex/etc)
Paint Burnishing (Jewelling)
An optional step after finishing, done with a non-abrasive ultra soft pad and an ultra fine finishing polish, for the removal of any microscopic pad abrasion, which also reduces the chance of holograms and will increase the gloss of the paint by a final polishing step, taking the finish from 99.5% to 100%
Typically the final step in surface polishing; using a finishing polish (Final Finish Polish / Super Finish 106FA) in tandem with a pad that has no abrasive abilities (CCS Gold Concours Finishing foam) you are just effectively burnishing the paint surface to a high gloss finish. Most finishing polishes are formulated with lubricating oils, which enable a longer working time.
Spread a finishing polish using a non-abrasive foam pad at 900-1000rpm and then increase to 1200-1500rpm until it goes clear and then make few passes at 1000rpm.
Paint Burnishing (Jewelling)
An optional step after finishing, done with a non-abrasive ultra soft pad and an ultra fine finishing polish, for the removal of any microscopic pad abrasion, which also reduces the chance of holograms and will increase the gloss of the paint by a final polishing step, taking the finish from 99.5% to 100%
Typically the final step in surface polishing; using a finishing polish (Final Finish Polish / Super Finish 106FA) in tandem with a pad that has no abrasive abilities (CCS Gold Concours Finishing foam) you are just effectively burnishing the paint surface to a high gloss finish. Most finishing polishes are formulated with lubricating oils, which enable a longer working time.
Spread a finishing polish using a non-abrasive foam pad at 900-1000rpm and then increase to 1200-1500rpm until it goes clear and then make few passes at 1000rpm.