A quick review of 105/205 and Brinkman

[mc01ta]

First off, my car just got back from being repaired by a body shop for a keyed door. It was nice of them to use a filler to cover up there work on 2 doors! Really nice after researching them, talking to them, just like every other shop here in VA.



Anyways, perfect time to do some quick testing and wish I took some pics but time was short (it was under 20 degrees here. I started with a quick 4-1 wash and clay. Focus wash polishing a few spots around car and correct body shop nightmare.



I will say that the Brinkman light might be my best tool outside of my PC now. I used it to check polish breakdowns, general lighting in a darker garage and check for correction. I love it and will use it on all my correction details!



I tried 105 on my PC with a 5.5 cyan pad. My 2007 Nissan Black Pathfinder has stupid soft paint so I did a test spot and tried to figure out all the madnesss. I couldn't dial in the working time on this product and it flashed super fast and was an extreme pain to come off. I primed the pad then used 2-3 pea sized dots and started on speed 6 slow pressure small working area. I was left with a ton of hazing, micromarring and some correction. I tried a 4 inch cyan pad with better luck but think my paint is to finicky and soft for 105. I'll stick with Powergloss as needed and will try 105 with a few other cars I detail. Any input on how to use 105 of soft paint with a PC? I think it's better suited for hard paints! I don't think 105 is needed on every detail, every car as most posts around here show. I think you can accomplish a lot without having to use it by using other products. Why use 105 if it hazes panels worse than other compounds? I find it almost absurd that people post on here that you can finish lsp ready with it. I'd like to see some proof of this on black paint after IPA wipe!



Now drumroll please...205 might be my favorite product besides IP/FPII. My paint loved it and it was sooo easy to use. Not only does it finish well but it has some CUT! I used it with a 5.5 white polish pad and it cleaned up everything. IPA wipe and beautiful finish. I can compare it to my use of IP that it almost cuts similiar and finishes so nicely on soft paint. I used it to remove serious holograming fromt the body shop. It removed a ton of swirls too. I ran out of time and will use my new bottle of 85rd to finish everything out. I doubt it needs it but I guess I can jewel now.



In summary, 105 is a pain (need some input from you all), if your on the fence about 205 BUY IT! This is going to be my new 1 stepper for myself to just use as maintenance throughout the year and every once in awhile use 85rd to get that extra pop. BUY the BRINKMAN! It is cheap and effective.



Also I miss my regular hose wash. I used my trusty DP 4-1 wash and found my paint to be not so clean after 2 cleanings under the lights. I don't know how some of you only use rinseless as it doesn't clean everything including tight spaces. In my opinion rinseless washes have their place but do not replace a traditional wash.



These are just my opinions and findings and would like to hear some input on 105 from those of you who have used it with a PC successfully. I have about a decade of experience with the PC and other polishes. This one is truely :think:

 

[Accumulator]

..I tried 105 on my PC with a 5.5 cyan pad. My 2007 Nissan Black Pathfinder has stupid soft paint.. I was left with a ton of hazing, micromarring and some correction. I tried a 4 inch cyan pad with better luck but think my paint is to finicky and soft for 105. I'll stick with Powergloss as needed and will try 105 with a few other cars I detail. Any input on how to use 105 of soft paint with a PC? I think it's better suited for hard paints!

I've only used M105 on hard paint, and I can certainly imagine it being a bit too much for soft clear.



FWIW, IME M105 leaves micromarring on even the hardest clear, but I usually can't see it except under my 3M SunGun (*not* under the Brinkman or any other lighting).



Did you use a QD when buffing off the M105 residue, and do that buffing before it dried?

I don't think 105 is needed on every detail, every car as most posts around here show.

If the same vehicle needs M105 on a regular basis something is very wrong



With different vehicles, yeah, match the product to the paint. No way I'd ever want/need to use M105 on my Mazda but it's plenty mild on my harder clears.

I find it almost absurd that people post on here that you can finish lsp ready with it. I'd like to see some proof of this on black paint after IPA wipe!

I always suspect the lighting when people post that. Having discussed this with a lot of folks (including Mike Phillips, who certainly knows from M105), micromarring that's very obvious to me under the SunGun might not show up at *all* under any other lighting.



So if somebody says M105 finishes out LSP-ready, well....a) I interpret that as "LSP-ready" in *their* opinion, b) and in *their* inspection lighting, and c) hey, it's not my car so their opinion, for their car, in the light they look at it under... is their business, so that's OK by me.

Now drumroll please...205 might be my favorite product besides IP/FPII. My paint loved it and it was sooo easy to use. Not only does it finish well but it has some CUT! I used it with a 5.5 white polish pad and it cleaned up everything. IPA wipe and beautiful finish. I can compare it to my use of IP that it almost cuts similiar and finishes so nicely on soft paint. I used it to remove serious holograming fromt the body shop. It removed a ton of swirls too.

Sounds like that *is* soft paint, at least compared to what I've used M205 on.

I ran out of time and will use my new bottle of 85rd to finish everything out. I doubt it needs it but I guess I can jewel now.

I sometimes like further jeweling after M205, but that's on hard paint. It'll be interesting to see if you're able to further refine things on your soft clear.

 

[mc01ta]

I doubt I can achieve a better finish after looking at 205. It finished almost identical to what I see with FPII on this paint. I think I have the softest nissan black paint! I swear it micromares when breathed on. I'll post what I see after doing a round of 85rd hopefully this weekend.



105 seems to really scour the paint more than any compound I've used except for 3m compound. I tried it with a cyan pad and want to do a test spot with a white polishing pad just to see. The working time was crazy almost less than 15 seconds, enough to do about a pass and a half maybe squeeze in two and it was breaking down faster than I could almost keep up with.



I'm actually suprised 205 doesn't get the hype that 105 does with what it can achieve and finish.



I'm still not sold on rinseless washes giving me the cleaning and finish a traditional wash does. This is my second winter using it and I pre-treat the panels with a pump sprayer, two bucket, take tons of time. Still find dirt no matter what type of wash media I use (typically a grout sponge from Lowes.) This forum has tons of great info and tried/tested products that do live up to the hype. I think the rinseless falls short and is a bit of a bandwagon item. It serves its purpose but I wouldn't trust it on a full detail especially on a dark color that shows whats remaining.

 

[Accumulator]

.. The [M105] working time was crazy almost less than 15 seconds, enough to do about a pass and a half maybe squeeze in two and it was breaking down faster than I could almost keep up with...

Heh heh, yeah...some people don't like that. I myself simply *love* the fast work time! Strictly a personal preference thing IMO.

I'm actually suprised 205 doesn't get the hype that 105 does with what it can achieve and finish.

Maybe your paint factors into that. On harder paint, there are a few products that I like at least as much as M205, although I do like the M205 enough to have a gallon of it on hand. But again, that's just me and I'm kinda set in my ways.



One of the things I'm not crazy about with M205 is the residual oils. It takes me multiple IPA wipes *and* PrepWash to get them off/out of certain paints. But I gather most people don't worry about them. That's another one of those "issues" (scare-quotes intentional as nobody else might care) that I usually only see under the SunGun, and it takes a fair bit of looking to see them with that.

..I'm still not sold on rinseless washes giving me the cleaning and finish a traditional wash does. ...

I'm not about to give up my wash regimen for rinseless ones either, though they do work OK for me on quick, mid-job cleanups and for the sort of light "been sitting in the shop" dust that others might just use a duster for.

 

[mc01ta]

thanks for the input Accumulator, i've been reading your posts since day 1. Any tips on 105 as I have read countless ways to use it and would like to hear it from a seasoned pro.



I hate to give up on it so quickly. I guess I see how someone coming from optimum polishes would love the short working time! I just felt like I was fighting it and couldn't keep up! I guess I'm old school coming from diminishing abrasives and knowing what to look for. I literally had to flash forward the polishes steps in my mind, keep hands working on speed dial and on/off switch. It was crazy! I'm sure once I get it down there is a time benefit to be had.



I did a few IPA wipes after 205 and everthing looked great. Today after sitting out in the sun a few hours I checked just to see what may re-appear. It looked almost to good to be true. This weekend I plan on re-washing, claying and a few more IPA wipedowns just to be sure. Seems like a lot of prior posts about 205 leaving fillers has me worried.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I had some really difficult times with m105 too, and the short work time and quick flashing were things that I really didn't like about it at all.



You know what the cure was? The Kevin Brown Method of loading the pad!! This made all the difference in the world, and I really love m105 now.



I do agree with you about M205 as well! I recently posted how impressed I am with this product. It finished incredibly well, much better than I thought it would. As I said in my other post, this is coming from a Menzerna "fanboy"!

 

[uberyk]

I also have to say my first experience with 105 was less than stellar.

It cut like a mofo but def left a lot of residue that was a pain to wipe off.

(Used on 93 Mustang, clear didn't seem very hard)

I loaded the pad and everything via KBM but I guess I just was too used to the Menz SIP and its diminishing properties.

The 105 was wonderful for removing wetsanding marks, even most of the deeper tracers came out in one pass (4inch orange pad, PCXP speed 6).

Followed up with SIP and 106FA and in the end everything came out nicely.

Still have to get around to testing out the 205.

Thinking of doing a side by side with 105/205 on one side and SIP/106FA on the other come spring time.



In regards to lighting, I have a little spotlight from home depot.

Just a round reflector clamp light with an incandescent 75w halogen outdoor spotlight.

I came about this after I noticed the spotlights in the driveway did a great job of showing swirls while the car was parked. Total cost a little over 10 bucks.

Works great in conjunction with halogen work lights.

I never saw a brinkman or a sun gun up close so I don't know how well my ghetto rig stacks up but for the price, I'd say it was a good deal.

 

[Accumulator]

thanks for the input Accumulator, i've been reading your posts since day 1. Any tips on 105 as I have read countless ways to use it and would like to hear it from a seasoned pro.

Heh heh....[Insert Accumulator's usual clarification that he's not a pro ]



I wouldn't even consider myself all that seasoned when it comes to M105, it's just one of those products that immediately "clicked" for me.

I guess I see how someone coming from optimum polishes would love the short working time!

Yeah, I absolutely *hated* using OCP with it's forever-long work time. Yeah, I know, everybody else seems to like it :nixweiss

I guess I'm old school coming from diminishing abrasives and knowing what to look for.

Heh heh, I can't imagine anybody being more old-school about this stuff than I am, so if *I* got the hang of it.... But maybe I'm just weird I kinda think the nondiminishing abrasives are *easier* as there's no "is it broken down yet?" to worry about.

I did a few IPA wipes after 205 and everthing looked great. Today after sitting out in the sun a few hours I checked just to see what may re-appear. It looked almost to good to be true. This weekend I plan on re-washing, claying and a few more IPA wipedowns just to be sure. Seems like a lot of prior posts about 205 leaving fillers has me worried.

I didn't have any real problems with the M205 *concealing*, but that might be a matter of how I polish; I'm pretty aggressive about every step right up until the final passes, so there's simply not much likely to be left *to* conceal.

I have different issues regarding the residual M205 oils.



Be careful that you don't instill some new marring if you clay. I'd really think twice about that. I like using TOL's PrepWash after the IPA wipes, and I bet a *VERY GENTLE* Dawn wash might work OK too (save the flamejobs about Dawn, people...).

I had some really difficult times with m105 too, and the short work time and quick flashing were things that I really didn't like about it at all.



You know what the cure was? The Kevin Brown Method of loading the pad!! This made all the difference in the world, and I really love m105 now.

YES! Right you are :xyxthumbs That really does make all the differenece.



That and a) not spreading the product before working it, b) working small areas, and c) keeping the pads clean.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

YES! Right you are :xyxthumbs That really does make all the differenece.



That and a) not spreading the product before working it, b) working small areas, and c) keeping the pads clean.

Exactly!



...

 

[mc01ta]

When I tried 105 I did load the pad and then used about 3-4 penny sized amounts. I place pad on paint and wen straight to 6 with steady pressure and finsihed that way. I ran into the residue being a complete pain to get off. My paint is probably the culprit as it is just that sensitive. I bet I would have had a better experience either A) using a white polishing pad with 105 and/or B) used the 4 inch cyan pad. I actually did a test spot to remove a random scratch with a 4 inch tangerine on speed 5 and it came out nice with 105.



Typically I try to stay away from cutting pads since they scour my black paint no matter the technique/product used. I've actually gotten some pretty good correction from FPII and a white polishing pad this past summer on a few spots to clean up!



I was tempted to buy Opt Compound II since its states a shorter working time but since my 32 oz Opt Compound has been sitting I passed. The work time was rediculous for a PC and probably better suited for a rotary. I use it time to time when time doesn't permit and much cut isn't needed. It really is more of a middle polish with not much defect removal in my experience. I got sucked in the 105 bandwagon and wanted to try it out and bought sampler sizes for both 105 and 205.



I can promise you when i'm finished with 205 I'm re-ordering a 32 oz! I'm a die hard Menzerna guy, you get what you pay for and the quality of the finish left is hard to beat. I think my polishes that I will always keep in stock will be 205, 85rd, SIP/IP, KAIO and maybe Powergloss. Everything else I have just collects dust and I wait to use on other vehicles (SSR 2.5, Opt Compound, Sonus products to name a few.)



If somebody is randomly reading this and you are looking to buy polishes, my opinion is 205, 85rd, SIP/IP, Powergloss, KAIO. And your set for years!

 

[mc01ta]

After my super long post (got in a rant), after loading 105 how much polish needs to be used on a 5.5 inch pad? Were 3-4 penny sized amounts sufficient? There has to be a way to cut down how much residue is left stuck on the panel. When I wiped it with my microfiber it literally "caught" and felt like it was pulling.

 

[Scottwax]

After my super long post (got in a rant), after loading 105 how much polish needs to be used on a 5.5 inch pad? Were 3-4 penny sized amounts sufficient? There has to be a way to cut down how much residue is left stuck on the panel. When I wiped it with my microfiber it literally "caught" and felt like it was pulling.

Waaaaaaaay too much. 3 pea sized dots at the most. Work it longer too, if #105 is hard to remove, you used too much or didn't work it long enough.

 

[mc01ta]

Thanks Scott! I had a feeling since it was hard to remove that I was using too much. Seemed to work better with a smaller pad and I used like 2 small dots after priming.



As for working long enough, it broke down super fast and I didn't feel comfortable continue to polish after it breaking down. How much longer should I continue after the broken down phase? It was in the 15 second range!

 

[Accumulator]

Waaaaaaaay too much. 3 pea sized dots at the most...

And I might add "not the biggest peas in the pod either!" to that.

I used like 2 small dots after priming.

I'd rather add more, smaller dots than fewer, bigger ones (even distribution and all that). Overkill perhaps,but I'd rather overthink this than underthink it.

Work it longer too, if #105 is hard to remove, you used too much or didn't work it long enough.

OR...you worked it too long I've had that go both ways. There's a kind of "sweet spot" where it comes off easily and if I work it longer/shorter I have issues.

As for working long enough, it broke down super fast and I didn't feel comfortable continue to polish after it breaking down. How much longer should I continue after the broken down phase? It was in the 15 second range!

I don't mean to sound (insufferably) pedantic, but note that M105/M205 don't really break down at all; when you're finished the abrasives still have just as much cut as they did when you started. (That's one reason why you can micromar things when buffing M105 residue off.) Rather, these polishes just dry out; the carrying agents flash off leaving the abrasivs, and some oils, behind.



Those residual oils presumably help with the buffing off and I suspect that when I overwork M105 I've messed with that somehow.



But yeah...I've never timed it (and I'm oddly incapable of even *guessing* how long I work any product with any real accuracy..it just doesn't register to me :nixweiss ) but 15 seconds seems about right for the areas I work.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I get much longer working time than 15 seconds using the KBM of priming the pad (using a orange pad on a PC)

 

[Scottwax]

Thanks Scott! I had a feeling since it was hard to remove that I was using too much. Seemed to work better with a smaller pad and I used like 2 small dots after priming.



As for working long enough, it broke down super fast and I didn't feel comfortable continue to polish after it breaking down. How much longer should I continue after the broken down phase? It was in the 15 second range!

Here you go:



YouTube - DA polishing-KB Method