A Newb's Q's re: Polishing/Waxing with Tape...
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imported_Intermezzo
New member
C240, I don't know about forums elsewhere or what the makers of Klasse SG had in mind, but here in Autopia, Don2000* pretty much pioneered the concept of layering multiple coats of Klasse SG. I think he was the first one to layer 3 coats of KSG and because he got such tremendous results, everyone else has since been hooked on layering KSG and getting great results.
:bow DON2000*!!! hehe
:bow DON2000*!!! hehe
G
Guest
Guest
Props to Don2000*. Thanks for all your great knowledge. :bow
edit: why wont the * appear in his name?
edit: why wont the * appear in his name?
nerdhunters
New member
I've been putting four layers of SG on and topping with Pinnacle Souveran I sure like the results. I do have to say though that I can't see much difference after two layer of SG, but what the heck "what's worth doing is worth overdoing".
Chuckmotor
New member
Can multiple coats of Klasse SG be layered on the car in one day, or does it take a day or twelve hours to cure?
imported_Intermezzo
New member
ALBoston, good question. I edited my post twice because I thought I kept on typing on the wrong key, but I guess that wasn't the problem.
Chuckmotor, that's another good question. Some people have been layering more than 1 coat in a single day and some people firmly believe that it is necessary to wait for the Klasse to fully cure (1-3 days) in order to do any effective layering. Both methods seem to yield terrific results. Might want to do a search as there have been a few interesting threads on that topic.
Chuckmotor, that's another good question. Some people have been layering more than 1 coat in a single day and some people firmly believe that it is necessary to wait for the Klasse to fully cure (1-3 days) in order to do any effective layering. Both methods seem to yield terrific results. Might want to do a search as there have been a few interesting threads on that topic.
I would apply SG for as many layers as it continues to get better looking after each layer. My first through third layers definately got better after each coat (1 coat per day) My first application with Klasse was 3 in one day and the 1st to 2nd coat in two days definately looked better this time around (might have been that I was getting better at applying too) The fourth looked even better and by the fifth my car was smelling like SG and felt kinda rubbery. I stopped, because I got tired of not being able to drive my car. The coolest thing is about two weeks later it looked even better as the Klasse had "settled" in. Keep up with the SG until you feel you need to stop. Each car is different and Klasse is sorta intuitive. Most of all, have fun doing it. I'm very happy to see all these newbies using Klasse and loving it. Very cool :up
Very good point. Why doesn't the * come out in my username. I thought you guys were just giving me a hard time or something. Hehe! I'll probably edit my username to just Don.
As for the sealant glaze layering question, you can layer the Klasse SG 10 times if you like. However, after 4 or 5 coats, you tend to get to a point of diminishing returns. The 3 layer principle should be a law. Thou shall not use less than 3 coats of Klasse SG. Laters
As for the sealant glaze layering question, you can layer the Klasse SG 10 times if you like. However, after 4 or 5 coats, you tend to get to a point of diminishing returns. The 3 layer principle should be a law. Thou shall not use less than 3 coats of Klasse SG. Laters
imported_JoeinLA
New member
OK, so I'm totally new and have been SLOWLY going through a full detail of my car. Did the wash and clay, and now have taped up my car.
I'm about to start polishing with the Flex (using Menzerna Super Polish (or whatever is their "lightest" polish), but as I think through the process, I have a few questions...
How do I polish the areas that are covered by tape (i.e., the 1/2 inch or so along the edges)? For the polish, I probably just won't bother, but what about the wax? I read an earlier thread that said that you can polish the covered areas by hand, but then I thought that you couldn't use the Menzerna products by hand...? Do you just accept the fact that the taped areas won't be "perfect"?
Can I use the Flex to polish the plastic areas like the bumpers? I assume so, but just want to make sure...
For the wax, do I apply the wax with the Flex and ALSO buff it out with the Flex? That would seem to be difficult if I've taped up the edges, since I'll remove the tape to apply wax by hand over the edges. So do I just not use the Flex to buff? Or do I apply/remove the wax from the edges AFTER I've applied/removed the wax with the Flex and removed the tape?
And as I remove the tape, if there's any adhesive, can I just use a quick detailer or something like that to clean it up? I'll be using an alcohol mix to remove the polish, but since I won't remove the tape until after waxing (?), I'm thinking not to use alcohol as it would remove the wax...?
Sorry for all the newbness of my questions, just want to make sure I don't mess anything up.
Thanks in advance!!!
I'm about to start polishing with the Flex (using Menzerna Super Polish (or whatever is their "lightest" polish), but as I think through the process, I have a few questions...
How do I polish the areas that are covered by tape (i.e., the 1/2 inch or so along the edges)? For the polish, I probably just won't bother, but what about the wax? I read an earlier thread that said that you can polish the covered areas by hand, but then I thought that you couldn't use the Menzerna products by hand...? Do you just accept the fact that the taped areas won't be "perfect"?
Can I use the Flex to polish the plastic areas like the bumpers? I assume so, but just want to make sure...
For the wax, do I apply the wax with the Flex and ALSO buff it out with the Flex? That would seem to be difficult if I've taped up the edges, since I'll remove the tape to apply wax by hand over the edges. So do I just not use the Flex to buff? Or do I apply/remove the wax from the edges AFTER I've applied/removed the wax with the Flex and removed the tape?
And as I remove the tape, if there's any adhesive, can I just use a quick detailer or something like that to clean it up? I'll be using an alcohol mix to remove the polish, but since I won't remove the tape until after waxing (?), I'm thinking not to use alcohol as it would remove the wax...?
Sorry for all the newbness of my questions, just want to make sure I don't mess anything up.
Thanks in advance!!!
PAR Detailing
New member
Depending on where the tape is you might be covering up too much. I usually tape just what I need to. I may have some overhang but not a ton. To me 1/2 inch seems like a large amount.
And if you are only using the lightest polish menzerna has then your pad will have minimal cut which means you have a very very low to almost zero risk of hurting the paint witht he buffer. I personally remove tape on the final polishing (when using fine polishes) sometimes depending on how close I have taped it up. There are certain things you want to have taped up always. Its hard to explain via text and I cant take pictures at the moment.
All in all, you may be covering up too much with the paint for a fine polish. That is just my personal take on it. I am sure others will chime in.
Jon
And if you are only using the lightest polish menzerna has then your pad will have minimal cut which means you have a very very low to almost zero risk of hurting the paint witht he buffer. I personally remove tape on the final polishing (when using fine polishes) sometimes depending on how close I have taped it up. There are certain things you want to have taped up always. Its hard to explain via text and I cant take pictures at the moment.
All in all, you may be covering up too much with the paint for a fine polish. That is just my personal take on it. I am sure others will chime in.
Jon
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Joe,
The best possible procedure is to use the correct sized tape so that it covers only what you dont want to hit with the buffer, but not any painted adjoining painted panels.
This is why painting/detailing masking tape comes in sizes from 1/8", 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", and so on.
You always want to polish/clean/clay the paint as close to moldings, black plastic places as possible so it all looks the same. If you cannot do this for whatever reason, at least, carefully, apply your sealant in those places if possible, so that they are at least protected.
Sometimes, Detailers have to resort to using Q-tips to get product in a spot that is hard to get to with power tools like in between letters, numbers, emblems, that are sitting on the top of painted surfaces. We also use the same products to clean out those same areas before applying anything else.
We also remove emblems, etc., if its easy to do, to really polish underneath them.
Its all in to how much "Detail" do you want to perform to your, or a Client's vehicle.
For example, you will almost always have to polish the areas behind the door handles by hand because a buffer cannot get into the small space and if you rub too hard on the curved edge with a machine, you run the risk of cutting through the paint on that edge.
What I personally do after taping up black plastic/rubber, etc., molding I am not wanting to accidently hit with my Rotary, is use the rotary through the stages its needed, then sometimes use my Flex 3401VRG to apply the last step of polishing or jeweling the surfaces, then pull all the tape off, clean up any stray compound, etc., that might be under it, the carefully apply my LSP, either a Sealant and or a Wax, etc., then go over the black plastic/rubber moldings with the cleaner Ive selected, treat all said moldings, and then its done.
Others may do it differently, but this works great for my needs.
Yes, you can use your Flex (which Model ?) on painted rubber bumpers, or moldings, just fine; however, pleae keep in mind that these non-metal painted areas heat up much faster and dont release their heat easily because they are not metal, and the paint can mess up easier if you press really hard for too long on them.
Also, you dont really know how much paint is on these parts, and they are not typically measured for thickness with any of the standard paint thickness gauges, unless you want to spend a few thousand $ for one that measures plastics, fiberglass, etc.,as well as steel and aluminum..
Yes, you can apply your sealant, etc., with the Flex, but I hardly ever do this, and apply it all by hand.
The reason is because its easier, I have more control, and dont have to worry about hitting anything with another power tool, and you use alot less sealant, etc., to cover the whole vehicle, because you are using a relatively thin 2.5"-3" pad and it absorbs only so much, while a big polishing pad will really suck up your product.
If you used blue Painters Tape of any of the masking tapes used in Painting vehicles, it should release and not leave any residue; you should not leave it taped up for a very long time, though. A few days to maybe a week, check on it if it has to stay taped longer and make sure the tape isnt drying out.
Good Luck with your project !
Dan F
The best possible procedure is to use the correct sized tape so that it covers only what you dont want to hit with the buffer, but not any painted adjoining painted panels.
This is why painting/detailing masking tape comes in sizes from 1/8", 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", and so on.
You always want to polish/clean/clay the paint as close to moldings, black plastic places as possible so it all looks the same. If you cannot do this for whatever reason, at least, carefully, apply your sealant in those places if possible, so that they are at least protected.
Sometimes, Detailers have to resort to using Q-tips to get product in a spot that is hard to get to with power tools like in between letters, numbers, emblems, that are sitting on the top of painted surfaces. We also use the same products to clean out those same areas before applying anything else.
We also remove emblems, etc., if its easy to do, to really polish underneath them.
Its all in to how much "Detail" do you want to perform to your, or a Client's vehicle.
For example, you will almost always have to polish the areas behind the door handles by hand because a buffer cannot get into the small space and if you rub too hard on the curved edge with a machine, you run the risk of cutting through the paint on that edge.
What I personally do after taping up black plastic/rubber, etc., molding I am not wanting to accidently hit with my Rotary, is use the rotary through the stages its needed, then sometimes use my Flex 3401VRG to apply the last step of polishing or jeweling the surfaces, then pull all the tape off, clean up any stray compound, etc., that might be under it, the carefully apply my LSP, either a Sealant and or a Wax, etc., then go over the black plastic/rubber moldings with the cleaner Ive selected, treat all said moldings, and then its done.
Others may do it differently, but this works great for my needs.
Yes, you can use your Flex (which Model ?) on painted rubber bumpers, or moldings, just fine; however, pleae keep in mind that these non-metal painted areas heat up much faster and dont release their heat easily because they are not metal, and the paint can mess up easier if you press really hard for too long on them.
Also, you dont really know how much paint is on these parts, and they are not typically measured for thickness with any of the standard paint thickness gauges, unless you want to spend a few thousand $ for one that measures plastics, fiberglass, etc.,as well as steel and aluminum..
Yes, you can apply your sealant, etc., with the Flex, but I hardly ever do this, and apply it all by hand.
The reason is because its easier, I have more control, and dont have to worry about hitting anything with another power tool, and you use alot less sealant, etc., to cover the whole vehicle, because you are using a relatively thin 2.5"-3" pad and it absorbs only so much, while a big polishing pad will really suck up your product.
If you used blue Painters Tape of any of the masking tapes used in Painting vehicles, it should release and not leave any residue; you should not leave it taped up for a very long time, though. A few days to maybe a week, check on it if it has to stay taped longer and make sure the tape isnt drying out.
Good Luck with your project !
Dan F
imported_JoeinLA
New member
Thanks a ton for the info! Yeah, it sounds like I WAY overtaped. I'll redo it and just tape the black trim pieces and not the edges/seams. I thought I read that people liked to have the edges and seams taped up.
To answer your questions, I got the flex 3401 and have never used anything like this before
and its my car - I thought I'd learn to detail it myself as a "project" of sorts.
Thx again!
To answer your questions, I got the flex 3401 and have never used anything like this before
and its my car - I thought I'd learn to detail it myself as a "project" of sorts. Thx again!
imported_Bunky
New member
Todd Helme has a very good guide to tape application somewhere. I forget what forum but it showed how to properly select the right tape and apply it so you do not end up with wads of tape in spots.
Street Dreams
New member
One bit of advice that I find get reinforced on every detail I do... take taping seriously. Take your time not only getting all areas and trim done but really making sure your precise in laying it down, the worst is when your foam pad snags a piece of tape when polishing.
bmw5541
New member
+1 on that one. I learned that the hard way. Do not rush the tapeing step. There are many steps in a complete detail, and the reason why it is called detailing, is just that. The details!!!
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Joe,
Alot of people like to tape edges and seams if they are compounding with something that makes alot of dust as it drys and flies everywhere, like into the seams between doors, fenders and doors, trunklids, hood seams, etc.
I hardly ever tape up seams because I try to use products that dont make much or no dust as much as possible, or try to stop buffing right before the product dries..
You want to tape paint edges if you are going to be buffing close to them and are worried that the paint is really, really, thin, and you dont want to burn through the edge.
Again, some people do this taping religiously, I dont, because I can control my rotary enough so I dont get near edges, and if I do, I let up on pressure, and go quickly over it if I have to.
Unless you are going to be doing serious buffing like with wool or purple foamed wool pad and something like Meguiars 105, you are probably going to be ok using your Flex 3401 VRG random orbital near edges.
On most vehicles anyway, an edge is hardly dirty in the first place because there is such little surface area to begin with for dirt, etc., to stick to.
If you really want to be careful, you can avoid edges completely, and go back after and do them carefully by hand with an applicator and your product.
And like has previously been said above, there are a few really good tutorials available here, put together by one of the best detailers around, who is also the Moderator of this Forum.
Good luck !
Dan F
Alot of people like to tape edges and seams if they are compounding with something that makes alot of dust as it drys and flies everywhere, like into the seams between doors, fenders and doors, trunklids, hood seams, etc.
I hardly ever tape up seams because I try to use products that dont make much or no dust as much as possible, or try to stop buffing right before the product dries..
You want to tape paint edges if you are going to be buffing close to them and are worried that the paint is really, really, thin, and you dont want to burn through the edge.
Again, some people do this taping religiously, I dont, because I can control my rotary enough so I dont get near edges, and if I do, I let up on pressure, and go quickly over it if I have to.
Unless you are going to be doing serious buffing like with wool or purple foamed wool pad and something like Meguiars 105, you are probably going to be ok using your Flex 3401 VRG random orbital near edges.
On most vehicles anyway, an edge is hardly dirty in the first place because there is such little surface area to begin with for dirt, etc., to stick to.
If you really want to be careful, you can avoid edges completely, and go back after and do them carefully by hand with an applicator and your product.
And like has previously been said above, there are a few really good tutorials available here, put together by one of the best detailers around, who is also the Moderator of this Forum.
Good luck !
Dan F
imported_JoeinLA
New member
. 
imported_Stokdgs
New member
Joe,
Oh, ok you are using Menzerna PO106FA then.
This used to be the last step in getting all the lightest defects out of the paint to really clarify and jewel the paint, and is probably still used that way.
With a very soft, non-agressive pad, it will only be able to do very lttle correcting; but with a more aggressive pad, it should be a little better at correcting, depending on the machine used (rotary/random orbital), the paint, the paint condition, and the experience of the user. But it wont cut much, because it was not designed that way.
Look at the little picture on the side of the bottle, the arrow for the amount of "cut" is almost at the end of the graph opposite of the most cut.
Let us know sometime, how it's going if you want. Glad you are interested in trying to do this ! Wish you best of luck !
Dan F
Oh, ok you are using Menzerna PO106FA then.
This used to be the last step in getting all the lightest defects out of the paint to really clarify and jewel the paint, and is probably still used that way.
With a very soft, non-agressive pad, it will only be able to do very lttle correcting; but with a more aggressive pad, it should be a little better at correcting, depending on the machine used (rotary/random orbital), the paint, the paint condition, and the experience of the user. But it wont cut much, because it was not designed that way.
Look at the little picture on the side of the bottle, the arrow for the amount of "cut" is almost at the end of the graph opposite of the most cut.
Let us know sometime, how it's going if you want. Glad you are interested in trying to do this ! Wish you best of luck !
Dan F