1979 Lacquer Paint Problem/Question

[jenniferny]

I just found this forum and thought I would ask a question.
I own a 1979 Pontiac Trans AM that still has the factory paint from 1979. The car looks pretty good considering how old the paint is. The whole car has a nice shine, but the roof, although it has a shine to it does not compare at all to the rest of the car. The paint on the entire car is glass smooth. It almost looks like there is oxidation, or the paint is just a little on the flat side. For the first 5 years of its life it unfortunately never saw a garage and I think this contributed to the problem. The car was never driven in the winter. Back in the 80's I had it professionally buffed and waxed once a year to make sure the paint was cared for, plus all of the wax that I put on it, which was always a Carnuaba Wax of some brand. It has been stored in a garage and not driven since 1990. When I pulled it out of the garage this year I used Griots Garage Speed Shine on it to take off a thin layer of dust and the paint looked wonderful, a lot better than I expected. Then I used my PC 7336 with a Griots Garage Orange Pad and 3M Rubbing Compound, followed up by Griots Garage Machine Polish #3, then a coat of Griots Garage Best Of Show Liquid Wax. All of the paint looks GREAT, but the roof has the issue of looking a little oxidized or the paint maybe looks a little dead. The roof shines, but does not look that same as the rest of the car. BTW, if it makes a difference, the car is Atlantis Blue. The picture here is just after the application of the Speed Shine and before anything else. I tried to get what I am talking about to show up in a photo, but couldn't. The car has never been wet sanded. Is there any way to bring the roof back?

 

[Rocket]

I didn't see a picture but I had a suggestion. Maybe try a glaze on the roof. Apply the glaze and let the paint soak I up over night. You might need to apply more and let the paint soak up the glaze. The oils in the glaze will soak into the paint and should make it look deeper. I've seen Mike Phillips do this and I was amazed by the results

 

[jenniferny]

I didn't see a picture but I had a suggestion. Maybe try a glaze on the roof. Apply the glaze and let the paint soak I up over night. You might need to apply more and let the paint soak up the glaze. The oils in the glaze will soak into the paint and should make it look deeper. I've seen Mike Phillips do this and I was amazed by the results

I do not know where the pictures went that I uploaded earlier. I just added them again.
Before I found Autopia, I found Auto Geek. I ordered the Original Forum Favorite Kit. It will be delivered on 7/19.
If this is not the right product or there is something better, could you give me an example of a Glaze so that I get the right thing?
In that order is Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze and Klasse All In One along with Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax , plus I already have 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze.
When I apply it, do I apply the normal amount and then apply a second coat, or apply extra the first time so there is more for the paint to be able to soak in

BTW, Thank You for responding!!!

 

[Old Pirate]

Your going to need to compound that area. I would use first a clay bar, then compound it with M105 with a LC Cyan pad to see if it will bring the shine back. I had the same color on my formula back in 80 and the roof of mine had the same problem. Back then I wetsand it and then follow up with compounding and polishing.

 

[tropicsteve]

wow, for a 79 with original paint, it looks pretty decent.

 

[jenniferny]

wow, for a 79 with original paint, it looks pretty decent.

THANK YOU for the compliment!! It is a 10 footer. From 10 feet it looks amazing. Part of me wants to paint it, and part wants me to leave it original. I bought it when I was 22 and did not have the resources to keep in out of mother nature for a number of years. Although it was never driven in winter, it was still outside. Until 1985 it was my daily driver all summer long. It was my very first ever new car and I have never been able to sell it. I ordered it in the beginning of October 1978 and had to wait till March of 1979 for delivery as most people that wanted the last Pontiac Powered Trans Am had to.

 

[jenniferny]

quote=zoomzoom mazda5;440003]Your going to need to compound that area. I would use first a clay bar, then compound it with M105 with a LC Cyan pad to see if it will bring the shine back. I had the same color on my formula back in 80 and the roof of mine had the same problem. Back then I wetsand it and then follow up with compounding and polishing.[/quote]

What is M105? Is that the one by Meguires? I have used 3M Rubbing Compound on it with a wool pad, will the 105 do a better job? If the wool pad is not good enough I will order a Cyan Pad. I want to get this right. Ive never had to deal with paint issues like this one, so I am in the dark right now. You said you wet sanded yours. Because the paint was so old I was a little leary about the wet sand. I think I have 1200 and 2000. Do you think that a lite wet sand with say 2000 will be OK? Then I would re-compound, use Griots Garage Machine Polish #3, then Klasse All In One and Klasse Sealant Glaze, wait a day then apply a coat of Souveran Paste Wax. My main concern is I just don't want to ruin the paint and make it look worse which is why I posed the question here where the detailing experts are. I wet sanded my 98 Jeep and it really made the paint look awesome, but that was with a newly painted car. My Jeep is Bright Platinum. Under lights at night you would swear that the paint is a mile deep and you could jump in and go for a swim.

The roof on the TA has shine and is glass smooth, but the paint itself looks flat or dead, Im not sure the proper way to describe it. It just doesn't POP like the rest of the car does.

I have always used the usual consumer products on my cars. Then in 2000 I started using Griots Garage Products. I have always been a reader/researcher and when I stumbled across Auto Geek, and now Autopia and read and read and read I had to try some of the newer products I was reading about. That is when I ordered the Pinnacle/Klasse Original Forum Kit, Pinnacle Clay Kit, Lake Country Pads 6 pk, and a sample of Pinnacle Liquid Souveran and Vinyl/Rubber Treatment from Geek because I wanted to see how my cars would look. Wish I had found Autopia before ordering, the order would have been a little different.

Its been 22 years since I have driven the T/A and I want to put it on the road and drive it again this summer. I use to take my, then little, niece for a slurpee in it and she has been bugging me for slurpee's again because she wants to go for a ride in it again. The engine and transmission have not even been broken in since their rebuild and I am dying to see how it runs now.

Thank You zoom zoom and every one else that responded, :yourrock

 

[jenniferny]

I had the same color on my formula back in 80.

Any photo's???

 

[Old Pirate]

No photos, my place burn up in 88 and lost everything......

 

[Old Pirate]

The problem has been from GM back in the day, as I do remember the years 78-80 they had issues with the paint, you ok using you 3M compound but if you get time you can stop in any auto parts store or Wally world and get a bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Compound which is sold everywhere and if you can't find it we sell it here at the Autopia Car Care Store. As I said I had issue's with mine back then it seems to feel and look like it wasn't painted right and I try everything I could and just improve it a little. As for the type of paint it was painted with ether Acrylic Enamel with 2 coats of CC or with a what is call a 2 Pack which I don't thing it's on there.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

I just found this forum and thought I would ask a question.
I own a 1979 Pontiac Trans AM that still has the factory paint from 1979. The car looks pretty good considering how old the paint is. The whole car has a nice shine, but the roof, although it has a shine to it does not compare at all to the rest of the car. The paint on the entire car is glass smooth. It almost looks like there is oxidation, or the paint is just a little on the flat side. For the first 5 years of its life it unfortunately never saw a garage and I think this contributed to the problem. The car was never driven in the winter. Back in the 80's I had it professionally buffed and waxed once a year to make sure the paint was cared for, plus all of the wax that I put on it, which was always a Carnuaba Wax of some brand. It has been stored in a garage and not driven since 1990. When I pulled it out of the garage this year I used Griots Garage Speed Shine on it to take off a thin layer of dust and the paint looked wonderful, a lot better than I expected. Then I used my PC 7336 with a Griots Garage Orange Pad and 3M Rubbing Compound, followed up by Griots Garage Machine Polish #3, then a coat of Griots Garage Best Of Show Liquid Wax. All of the paint looks GREAT, but the roof has the issue of looking a little oxidized or the paint maybe looks a little dead. The roof shines, but does not look that same as the rest of the car. BTW, if it makes a difference, the car is Atlantis Blue. The picture here is just after the application of the Speed Shine and before anything else. I tried to get what I am talking about to show up in a photo, but couldn't. The car has never been wet sanded. Is there any way to bring the roof back?

Welcome to AutopiaForums. That is a GREAT car (and I love the color, wow!).

There is a lot of information to cover so bear with me for a few...

Oxidation is usually limited to the outer most surface of the paint and tends to clean up fairly quickly. Since you already polished with 3M rubbing compound I doubt that you have any oxidation (unless it was so deep that it would have required multiple applications of the 3M rubbing compound to use).

Did you polish the whole car with 3M rubbing compound or just the roof?

I would also suggest that 3M rubbing compound isn't the best choice in a cutting compound to use with a Dual-Action polisher like your Porter Cable. There is a chance that the compound itself could have created a micro-haze (tiny surface scratches) that the Griot's Polish didn't remove. This can give the appearance of slightly dulled paint. That's why I asked if you applied it to the whole car.

The issue of concern that I have is that you mention that the paint was buffed and waxed every year in the early 80's. This causes me some concern as it is impossible to know how much paint you really have left. Polishing paint is abrasive and given the procedure and products that where commonly used back then, your paint could be dangerously thin.

Do you have any more pictures of the hood, particularly close ups in direct sun light?

I do not know where the pictures went that I uploaded earlier. I just added them again.
Before I found Autopia, I found Auto Geek. I ordered the Original Forum Favorite Kit. It will be delivered on 7/19.
If this is not the right product or there is something better, could you give me an example of a Glaze so that I get the right thing?
In that order is Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze and Klasse All In One along with Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax , plus I already have 3M Foam Polishing Pad Glaze.
When I apply it, do I apply the normal amount and then apply a second coat, or apply extra the first time so there is more for the paint to be able to soak in

BTW, Thank You for responding!!!

You start with applying Klasse All In One. Apply it very lightly by machine or hand, spreading into a very thin coat (very thin coat). Work over the area with a little passion then remove.

Then top with Klasse Sealant Glaze. Again thin is key here as it will be difficult to remove if applied too thickly. For best results apply 2 coats, 12 hours apart. Allow the last coat to cure for at least 12 hours before applying wax.

 

[jenniferny]

Welcome to AutopiaForums.

That is a GREAT car (and I love the color, wow!). Todd, Thank You!!

Oxidation is usually limited to the outer most surface of the paint and tends to clean up fairly quickly. Since you already polished with 3M rubbing compound I doubt that you have any oxidation (unless it was so deep that it would have required multiple applications of the 3M rubbing compound to use).

Did you polish the whole car with 3M rubbing compound or just the roof? The whole car

I would also suggest that 3M rubbing compound isn't the best choice in a cutting compound to use with a Dual-Action polisher like your Porter Cable. There is a chance that the compound itself could have created a micro-haze (tiny surface scratches) that the Griot's Polish didn't remove. This can give the appearance of slightly dulled paint. That's why I asked if you applied it to the whole car.

The issue of concern that I have is that you mention that the paint was buffed and waxed every year in the early 80's. Yes, but it was not compounded, he used if memory serves, Dupont Polishing Compound. The person that did it for me was a new car prep person and detail person at a car dealership. He did it from about 1980 to 1983 or 1984, once per year.

This causes me some concern as it is impossible to know how much paint you really have left. Polishing paint is abrasive and given the procedure and products that where commonly used back then, your paint could be dangerously thin. That is my biggest concern too.

Do you have any more pictures of the hood, particularly close ups in direct sun light? I attached a few pictures. If they are not what you want, maybe you could give me a pointer on how to take the picture that you want to see.

I have pads coming Thursday. Which of the ones I have coming should I use with the Meguiars 105 Cut Compound, the Klasse and the Pinnacle Souveran and is the Meguairs 105 Cut Compound the compound that you would recommend? After the Meguairs 105 should I then use the Griots Machine Polish #3?
These are the pads I have coming this Thursday, Lake Country CCS 6.5". I have 2 orange, 2 white, a Yellow and a Gray Pick 6 6.5 inch Lake Country CCS pad kit

You start with applying Klasse All In One. Apply it very lightly by machine or hand, spreading into a very thin coat (very thin coat). Work over the area with a little passion then remove.

Then top with Klasse Sealant Glaze. Again thin is key here as it will be difficult to remove if applied too thickly. For best results apply 2 coats, 12 hours apart. Allow the last coat to cure for at least 12 hours before applying wax.

Thank You for the tip!!

This goes without saying, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP AND ADVICE!!

 

[Todd@RUPES]

The whole car

Okay, gotcha. So the problem seems to be more of a problem with the paint on the roof vs. the whole car. This helps eliminate the polishing as the cause of the problem as then the dullness would (likely) be uniform across the entire car.

Yes, but it was not compounded, he used if memory serves, Dupont Polishing Compound. The person that did it for me was a new car prep person and detail person at a car dealership. He did it from about 1980 to 1983 or 1984, once per year.

With out knowing exactly and how aggressively it was applied we are still shooting in the dark.

I attached a few pictures. If they are not what you want, maybe you could give me a pointer on how to take the picture that you want to see.

The pictures you posted are a step in the right direction. Some haze is visible radiating out from the sun. If you could take a picture in slightly less direct light. If you camera has a macro mode, then use that. Place your finger on the paint and hold the camera about 18 inches away. Hold the shutter down half way to autofocus on the spot where your finger meets the paint, then remove your finger and finish the picture. What I am really trying to see is the texture of the paint in this particular area.

I have pads coming Thursday. Which of the ones I have coming should I use with the Meguiars 105 Cut Compound, the Klasse and the Pinnacle Souveran and is the Meguairs 105 Cut Compound the compound that you would recommend? After the Meguairs 105 should I then use the Griots Machine Polish #3?
These are the pads I have coming this Thursday, Lake Country CCS 6.5". I have 2 orange, 2 white, a Yellow and a Gray Pick 6 6.5 inch Lake Country CCS pad kit

M105 is one of the best compounds on the market but I don't think this is going to be an answer to your problem because the evidence is leading me to believe to that the problem is inherient to the paint. I would hold off on any procedures until we can better diagnos the problem.

If I do believe that machine polishing will solve then issue then I am going to recommend a different approach then M105. You could use M105 with the Yellow (most polishing), Orange (slightly less polishing power, but much better finish then Yellow) White (medium polishing power, very nice finish) and even gray pad (though not normally recommended. M105 is one of those polishes who performance will vary greatly with the pad you apply it with.

Let's try to get a better picture of the texture of the paint of the roof and perhaps the texture of the trunk/hood for comparison.

Thank You for the tip!!

This goes without saying, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP AND ADVICE!!

Our pleasure.