Disgraceful !!!!!

Actually, as a former member of the military, and one who assumed the highest military rank possible, Eisenhower did know better. He knew that there was no requirement for the President, or any civilian, to return the salute of any member of the armed forces. Is he a "dork" because he followed military protocol by not saluting?
 
And some people might have considered Patton a "dork" for suggesting a plan that many historians estimated would cost another 100,000 American lives in taking Berlin. Frankly, I consider Patton and Eisenhower both great American patriots who had differing opinions.
 
Paul Mitchell said:
And some people might have considered Patton a "dork" for suggesting a plan that many historians estimated would cost another 100,000 American lives in taking Berlin. Frankly, I consider Patton and Eisenhower both great American patriots who had differing opinions.
Click to expand...

even though both generals,

warrior v. politician ?
 
Paul Mitchell said:
Actually, as a former member of the military, and one who assumed the highest military rank possible, Eisenhower did know better. He knew that there was no requirement for the President, or any civilian, to return the salute of any member of the armed forces. Is he a "dork" because he followed military protocol by not saluting?
Click to expand...

Paul,

No, he is not a dork because he followed military protocol by not saluting..
This is my personal opinion from reading about him and studying his life. You can study my life and call me whatever you want.. Im ok with that..

There is always going to be the "Letter of the Law", and the "Spirit of the Law"..

With that in mind, would it not be better pretty much always to strike a Balance between this ?

I will always know in my heart that those that have defended our Nation and Flag and paid for our freedoms with their lives will be those I owe a huge debt to..

I am also sure that they had to think at some point during those incredible battles they were in, that they were willing to give their lives, knowing that they were leaving loved ones behind..
How many people do you know today, that would willingly do this ?
Dan F
 
Paul Mitchell said:
Actually, as a former member of the military, and one who assumed the highest military rank possible, Eisenhower did know better. He knew that there was no requirement for the President, or any civilian, to return the salute of any member of the armed forces. Is he a "dork" because he followed military protocol by not saluting?
Click to expand...

You were a four star? I believe Ike was the last five star. As a retired measley LTC I am impressed!
 
basswood said:
You were a four star? I believe Ike was the last five star. As a retired measley LTC I am impressed!
Click to expand...

Tom,

Read it again. The entire sentence, by the use of commas, refers to Eisenhower as the former member of the military who received the highest rank possible and not me. In fact the entire paragraph refers to Eisenhower. I was an E-5 in the Coast Guard. Since you were an LTC what is your opinion regarding the return salute from a civilian President to a current member of the armed services? Is it required and is it a disservice to all military members, past and present, if no return salute is given?
 
As a former Marine (1998-2002) this just makes me chuckle and go on the rest of my day. He is a civilian and doesn't have to salute back if he doesn't want to. Grant it I'd prefer it that he didn't salute instead of giving that salute but it's no biggie. I lost count on how many officers I've saluted that never returned it and were in uniform. I just went on my way.
 
Stokdgs said:
Paul,

No, he is not a dork because he followed military protocol by not saluting..
This is my personal opinion from reading about him and studying his life. You can study my life and call me whatever you want.. Im ok with that..

There is always going to be the "Letter of the Law", and the "Spirit of the Law"..

With that in mind, would it not be better pretty much always to strike a Balance between this ?

I will always know in my heart that those that have defended our Nation and Flag and paid for our freedoms with their lives will be those I owe a huge debt to.

I am also sure that they had to think at some point during those incredible battles they were in, that they were willing to give their lives, knowing that they were leaving loved ones behind..
How many people do you know today, that would willingly do this ?
Dan F
Click to expand...

Dan,

Thanks for clearing that up about Eisenhower and the salute. You're certainly entitled to your opinion of him as a man and a President. I have followed your posts for the past several years, regarding detailing and non-detailing issues, and I appreciate your passion and straightforwardness.

I also understand the Letter of the Law and Spirit of the Law but in this case we're dealing with protocol and proper protocol does not require a President to return a salute to a member of the military. As I stated previously, the return salute from Obama was sloppy and in retrospect he would have been better off with no salute.

Like you, I served in the military and swore an oath, similar to this in 1966:

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I appreciate the service of all members of the armed forces past, present and future and, to answer your question, I believe that those serving today are willing to do whatever is necessary to protect our freedoms.
 
dc52nv said:
As a former Marine (1998-2002) this just makes me chuckle and go on the rest of my day. He is a civilian and doesn't have to salute back if he doesn't want to. Grant it I'd prefer it that he didn't salute instead of giving that salute but it's no biggie. I lost count on how many officers I've saluted that never returned it and were in uniform. I just went on my way.
Click to expand...

That was my thought and intention of the thread.
IMHO- It was a ho-hum type thing, no respect.
 
Insulting or un-caring ??
Click to expand...

BOTH! As a VET that really pissed me off. Technically GW should not have saluted with the dog in his arms but it was cute and still respectful.
 
Paul -

Thanks for your reply and your awesome straightforwardness and passion..

I get your point and can see the merit in it as well..

Yes, protocol requirements are what they are and I respect and honor that..

I too, took that Oath in March, 1967 and was blessed to be honorably discharged in 1973..

I loved serving my Country and did the best I could possibly do every day, as I know everyone else did..

I just saw a Documentary of how the Vietnam Wall was built from the very beginning when the concept went out to anyone who wanted to submit their drawing idea/s..

Another GI just like us, Jan Scruggs, came up with the idea, and felt it was his "Calling" to see this through and actually did !

The design that was ultimately chosen was fraught with opposition for years, before the final design broke ground...

There were a couple of additional monuments designed and added to the Vietnam Memorial that enhanced the entire history of this war and better focused on the actual people (men and women) who served and died there..

The Names!!!!! It goes forever !!!!!!! I think they said over 58,000 names are on that wall...

I thought of my friends and friends I knew who lost a brother, a Dad, a Son, a Husband, a Mom, a Grandpa, a Grandma there, and I could not hold back the tears, and I was not even there.. I was just looking at it on the TV screen..

The man documenting it said that this place above all others is a very powerful place and hardly anyone goes by there without feeling the "holy ground" they are walking on..

People started leaving personal mementos, letters, pictures, medals, all kinds of really personal items to their sons, fathers, brothers, friends, as a form of closure for those faces, those voices who they would never see or hear in real life again..

The Park Service has been collecting these personal items for years and preserving them carefully and cataloging them for those that will want to see them and for those that want to study in a sociological way, why there is such a tremendous outpouring as this at this wall...

I want to go other there someday soon and put my hand on the names of the good men I knew who went there willingly and took their last breath, saw the sky for the last time, and called for their sweet Mothers to come comfort them..

I would hope that as a country, we can all someday realize the great debt we owe, and again as a country, as a people, stop in the middle of this sometimes crazy world we are witnessing, and at whatever rank and file we be, salute and show the love we should all cultivate in our heart of hearts for all those who paved the way before us...

And perhaps if the Leader/s of this Country stop for just a few seconds and Set the Tone, Be the Example, Convey their Love for this Flag, for The Pledge of Allegiance, that other Nations will feel the Spirit in their hearts and try to achieve the same freedoms we have..
And perhaps then, we can all feel the Peace that a certain Man of Nazareth promised to all..
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Paul -

Thanks for your reply and your awesome straightforwardness and passion..

I get your point and can see the merit in it as well..

Yes, protocol requirements are what they are and I respect and honor that..

I too, took that Oath in March, 1967 and was blessed to be honorably discharged in 1973..

I loved serving my Country and did the best I could possibly do every day, as I know everyone else did..

I just saw a Documentary of how the Vietnam Wall was built from the very beginning when the concept went out to anyone who wanted to submit their drawing idea/s..

Another GI just like us, Jan Scruggs, came up with the idea, and felt it was his "Calling" to see this through and actually did !

The design that was ultimately chosen was fraught with opposition for years, before the final design broke ground...

There were a couple of additional monuments designed and added to the Vietnam Memorial that enhanced the entire history of this war and better focused on the actual people (men and women) who served and died there..

The Names!!!!! It goes forever !!!!!!! I think they said over 58,000 names are on that wall...

I thought of my friends and friends I knew who lost a brother, a Dad, a Son, a Husband, a Mom, a Grandpa, a Grandma there, and I could not hold back the tears, and I was not even there.. I was just looking at it on the TV screen..

The man documenting it said that this place above all others is a very powerful place and hardly anyone goes by there without feeling the "holy ground" they are walking on..

People started leaving personal mementos, letters, pictures, medals, all kinds of really personal items to their sons, fathers, brothers, friends, as a form of closure for those faces, those voices who they would never see or hear in real life again..

The Park Service has been collecting these personal items for years and preserving them carefully and cataloging them for those that will want to see them and for those that want to study in a sociological way, why there is such a tremendous outpouring as this at this wall...

I want to go other there someday soon and put my hand on the names of the good men I knew who went there willingly and took their last breath, saw the sky for the last time, and called for their sweet Mothers to come comfort them..

I would hope that as a country, we can all someday realize the great debt we owe, and again as a country, as a people, stop in the middle of this sometimes crazy world we are witnessing, and at whatever rank and file we be, salute and show the love we should all cultivate in our heart of hearts for all those who paved the way before us...

And perhaps if the Leader/s of this Country stop for just a few seconds and Set the Tone, Be the Example, Convey their Love for this Flag, for The Pledge of Allegiance, that other Nations will feel the Spirit in their hearts and try to achieve the same freedoms we have..
And perhaps then, we can all feel the Peace that a certain Man of Nazareth promised to all..
Dan F
Click to expand...

Well said Dan, well said! God Bless.
 
Stokdgs said:
Paul -

Thanks for your reply and your awesome straightforwardness and passion..

I get your point and can see the merit in it as well..

Yes, protocol requirements are what they are and I respect and honor that..

I too, took that Oath in March, 1967 and was blessed to be honorably discharged in 1973..

I loved serving my Country and did the best I could possibly do every day, as I know everyone else did..

I just saw a Documentary of how the Vietnam Wall was built from the very beginning when the concept went out to anyone who wanted to submit their drawing idea/s..

Another GI just like us, Jan Scruggs, came up with the idea, and felt it was his "Calling" to see this through and actually did !

The design that was ultimately chosen was fraught with opposition for years, before the final design broke ground...

There were a couple of additional monuments designed and added to the Vietnam Memorial that enhanced the entire history of this war and better focused on the actual people (men and women) who served and died there..

The Names!!!!! It goes forever !!!!!!! I think they said over 58,000 names are on that wall...

I thought of my friends and friends I knew who lost a brother, a Dad, a Son, a Husband, a Mom, a Grandpa, a Grandma there, and I could not hold back the tears, and I was not even there.. I was just looking at it on the TV screen..

The man documenting it said that this place above all others is a very powerful place and hardly anyone goes by there without feeling the "holy ground" they are walking on..

People started leaving personal mementos, letters, pictures, medals, all kinds of really personal items to their sons, fathers, brothers, friends, as a form of closure for those faces, those voices who they would never see or hear in real life again..

The Park Service has been collecting these personal items for years and preserving them carefully and cataloging them for those that will want to see them and for those that want to study in a sociological way, why there is such a tremendous outpouring as this at this wall...

I want to go other there someday soon and put my hand on the names of the good men I knew who went there willingly and took their last breath, saw the sky for the last time, and called for their sweet Mothers to come comfort them..

I would hope that as a country, we can all someday realize the great debt we owe, and again as a country, as a people, stop in the middle of this sometimes crazy world we are witnessing, and at whatever rank and file we be, salute and show the love we should all cultivate in our heart of hearts for all those who paved the way before us...

And perhaps if the Leader/s of this Country stop for just a few seconds and Set the Tone, Be the Example, Convey their Love for this Flag, for The Pledge of Allegiance, that other Nations will feel the Spirit in their hearts and try to achieve the same freedoms we have..
And perhaps then, we can all feel the Peace that a certain Man of Nazareth promised to all..
Dan F
Click to expand...

Beautiful.
Thank you
 
Stokdgs said:
And perhaps if the Leader/s of this Country stop for just a few seconds and Set the Tone, Be the Example, Convey their Love for this Flag, for The Pledge of Allegiance, that other Nations will feel the Spirit in their hearts and try to achieve the same freedoms we have..
And perhaps then, we can all feel the Peace that a certain Man of Nazareth promised to all..
Dan F
Click to expand...

I do not think a salute is going to fix the country's problem. It is actually a symptom of the broader problem of non-stop partisanship in almost everything. Every side is looking for anything (photo ops, videos, secret recordings) to throw mud to just stir the pot to build discontent. Votes in Congress are usually done for political points and not to actual solve an issue.
 
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