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  1. #16
    Just a regular guy Todd@RUPES's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by CH.Detailing View Post
    What about Dinos? They were purposely built with a skim coat at the factory!
    My understanding is a lot of the coat built Italian cars from this vintage are very much like this.

    You would not believe the amount of sanding lines and body filler shrinkage on an original paint LP-400 (Countach) that I did. It was just scary, particularly on the lower fenders. Even modern, catalyzed body fillers still shrink to some degree.

    I remember reading a post on a Porsche Restorer who was restoring an aluminum bodied Ferrari 308 and the amount of filler on the body was crazy. IIRC, he sanded and scrapped most of it off, swept it into a pile, and weighted it, and it was something like 15 lbs!

  2. #17
    Auto Detail & Restoration Concours.John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Helme View Post
    My understanding is a lot of the coat built Italian cars from this vintage are very much like this.

    You would not believe the amount of sanding lines and body filler shrinkage on an original paint LP-400 (Countach) that I did. It was just scary, particularly on the lower fenders. Even modern, catalyzed body fillers still shrink to some degree.

    I remember reading a post on a Porsche Restorer who was restoring an aluminum bodied Ferrari 308 and the amount of filler on the body was crazy. IIRC, he sanded and scrapped most of it off, swept it into a pile, and weighted it, and it was something like 15 lbs!
    This is true. Here is factory filler on gelcoat. The body is fiberglass built by Ghia in 65. It was obviously a mold imperfection which means everyone had it in the same spot on the hood.




    On another note here is an overlay repair done in the past. The body was leveled with filler. This has to go!

    One day I`ll get to do my own car.
    Concours.John Facebook

  3. #18
    rurocking's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    When you buy a brand new 2013 Nissan GT-R it`s a $3000.00 option to have

    Special Hand-Sanded Paint $3,000.00

    http://nissan.ca/vehicles/common/en/...s/cars/gtr/en/

  4. #19
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by rurocking View Post
    When you buy a brand new 2013 Nissan GT-R it`s a $3000.00 option to have

    Special Hand-Sanded Paint $3,000.00

    Nissan Canada - Vehicles
    And I`ll bet it comes with complimentary leftover sanding tracers
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  5. #20
    mrclean81's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Maybe someone in the know could answer this. When cars are painted at the factory, is there a group of guys who sand and buff every car that rolls off the line, or are the painting robots so dialed in that the paint simply comes out perfect every time?

  6. #21
    Just a regular guy Todd@RUPES's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by mrclean81 View Post
    Maybe someone in the know could answer this. When cars are painted at the factory, is there a group of guys who sand and buff every car that rolls off the line, or are the painting robots so dialed in that the paint simply comes out perfect every time?
    There is usually a group of QC guys that will spot sand down any dust nibs and polish them out (quickly) but that`s about it. Most new cars are far from perfect if you look close enough.

  7. #22
    Auto Detail & Restoration Concours.John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrclean81 View Post
    Maybe someone in the know could answer this. When cars are painted at the factory, is there a group of guys who sand and buff every car that rolls off the line, or are the painting robots so dialed in that the paint simply comes out perfect every time?
    At the factory reducers are adjusted to climate for drying according to climate. There usually is no buffing involved. The dealership has the courtesy of dong it for people at no charge.
    Several years ago there was an issue when paint suppliers went to lead free. (late 80 to early 90) these were the vehicles you seen having all the color come off to primer.(Lumina Corsicas etc) It was a mess for restorers and manufacturers.

    Typically the robots are dialed in to
    Have the perfect space and spray per square in. needed to cover a panel equally. The temperature is controlled to have the proper flow out and cure needed to create the least amount of peel possible given for the time allotted in the booth.
    This is all coming from the people who design many of the robots (Motoman) here in Ohio. If the "line" or company changes time frames for what the machine is designed for it
    could change the outcome.
    One day I`ll get to do my own car.
    Concours.John Facebook

  8. #23
    CCH Auto Appearance, LLC C. Charles Hahn's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Concours.John View Post
    At the factory reducers are adjusted to climate for drying according to climate.
    Well, that, and factory paint on most common vehicles is thermocured, unlike aftermarket paint and the stuff used on high dollar hand built supercars.
    Charlie
    Automotive Appearance Specialist - Serving Greater Lansing, Michigan
    http://www.cchautoappearance.com/

  9. #24
    Auto Detail & Restoration Concours.John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C. Charles Hahn View Post
    Well, that, and factory paint on most common vehicles is thermocured, unlike aftermarket paint and the stuff used on high dollar hand built supercars.
    You are right and many times flaws less than desired for a vehicle of
    that caliber.
    One day I`ll get to do my own car.
    Concours.John Facebook

  10. #25
    Nth Degree's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by rurocking View Post
    When you buy a brand new 2013 Nissan GT-R it`s a $3000.00 option to have

    Special Hand-Sanded Paint $3,000.00

    Nissan Canada - Vehicles
    Perfect example for customers who wonder why their new car isn`t perfect. Even on a $100,000 vehicle there will be about 1% of people who either notice and/or care, so why would the factory waste the time? There is a cost for the time to achieve (near) perfection.

  11. #26
    Ecrissman's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Helme View Post
    There is usually a group of QC guys that will spot sand down any dust nibs and polish them out (quickly) but that`s about it. Most new cars are far from perfect if you look close enough.
    Factory paint is usually horrendous, once you really get to know the finish. Not to mention body panel alignment is usually sloppy.

  12. #27
    wannafbody
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd@RUPES View Post
    My understanding is a lot of the coat built Italian cars from this vintage are very much like this.

    You would not believe the amount of sanding lines and body filler shrinkage on an original paint LP-400 (Countach) that I did. It was just scary, particularly on the lower fenders. Even modern, catalyzed body fillers still shrink to some degree.

    I remember reading a post on a Porsche Restorer who was restoring an aluminum bodied Ferrari 308 and the amount of filler on the body was crazy. IIRC, he sanded and scrapped most of it off, swept it into a pile, and weighted it, and it was something like 15 lbs!
    I wanted to add a comment. I backed my Trans Am into my mom`s car in the driveway in 2001. I had the car fixed and it looked great. Fast forward about 15 years and over winter the area where they used some filler spider cracked. So eventually, unless the car is stored in a climate controlled area, the paint and filler will deteriorate.

  13. #28
    SUPER MODERATOR GearHead_1's Avatar
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Holy necrothread Batman. 8 years ago?
    A society willing to trade liberty for temporary security deserves neither and will lose both
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  14. #29
    wannafbody
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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    in my defense, it was only the 3rd or 4th post down in this subforum.
    Likes GearHead_1 liked this post

  15. #30

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    Re: why wet sand a show car??????????

    Talk about resurrecting an older post: this one was started on 27 November, 2010;
    Most interesting was to see "former" Autopians togwt, C.Charlie Hahn, Todd@Rupes, and Mike Phillips all posting in this "ancient" thread.
    Still interesting and a very good question to ask.

    One thing I will say about high-end (and priced) cars: they have very little orange peel in their clear coat /paint finish compared to the more-pedestrian (AKA cheaper) vehicles, so I guess in some ways, you do get what you pay for.

    And speaking of orange peel in surface finishes in "pedestrian" vehicles, that STILL is a question of whether to remove it or not. With today`s much thinner clear coat /paint finish I would say just live with it. So much of that very thin clear coat is removed to "perfect" the surface and remove the orange peel that the overall life of the vehicle finish is greatly compromised. But therein lies the rub (pun intended!): Do I have a great-looking vehicle for a short time OR an OEM-looking vehicle for a longer time?

    And also related is the fact that I think Paint Thickness Readings (PTRs) should be a part of Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle (CPO) reports. I would like to know why that 3-year old Mazda (notorious for thin finishes) MX-5 Miata looks so much glossier and brighter than the others on the lot.
    GB detailer

 

 
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