Why are we here?

[imported_billd55]

That is it.

[TOGWT]

I`d have serious doubts about an acrylic polymer (even if it contains Teflon (PTFE) ( OK I promise I won`t beat that dead horse again) that has a five year durability.

Even the nano-technology Silane coating are only claiming two years durability

[imported_billd55]

I states under normal conditions it will last for 5 years. I feel it should
be done every 12 months, and I apply by hand. An orbital will work,
but there are places were you still have to apply by hand.

[TOGWT]

As a 35 career year Chemical Engineer in the Petrochemical / Polymer industries I take most marketing at face value.

But I will state this " Today there is no polymer that exibits a durability of five years"

[Todd@RUPES]

:clap:

Bill, you should read the forum rules regarding posting products and linking to other websites.

Now....

First you ask why everybody is here??? Then you say to learn and try new products...

But...

That is not the reason you are here. At least it doesn`t appear to be? You have stated that you haven`t used wax since the 1970`s, so while you preach for everybody to keep an open mind, you don`t seem to follow that yourself.

Thus...

The question: Why are you here?

I hope it is to learn something new because it seems like you are misinformed about waxes in general.

Most waxes and sealants require about 1/2 fl oz to adequetly cover. This product seems 8 times more wasteful, although this could be the function of the outdated solvents/polymers.


Okay...

You cannot post links, and definetly not to a product you are pushing. That is rule infraction one.. this is just a reminder.

You cannot PM our forum members trying to sell your product. . Since you broke the rules in quick sucession, consider this part of your reminder.

We don`t like banning people but will do so if it deemed necessary to prevent people from using our forum to bash us, other people, or sell their products. If your intentions are pure and you are here to expand your limited knowledge of detailing products and learn better techniques to expand your detailing horizen, then you are welcome to follow the rules and stay.

[imported_billd55]

th001
I am confused. I did not post that link, so why is that strike one. People
ask me what this product is,so I tell them. According to a previous
post, they said I was not breaking the rules by mentioning the name
if I was not selling it. I will gladly give you the name of the person who owns
this company, and he will tell you I have no interest in this company.

Why am I here? Well, your site is named truth in detailing, so I assumed
that this was a site where people could get new ideas in detailing.
The reason I do not use wax is I have found something that is better, and
fairly priced. When I notice wax going for up to a $1,000,well, I do not think
I have missed much from the 70`s. Is it any better when it is sold on line for
$70.00, or at $39.00 at Walmart.If one thing I have said about wax is wrong,
please, tell me. If wax is so great then why do you need a basecoat as a
sealant?

As far as how much sealant I use is not the point. If it costs $2.00 a car,
and lasts a year, well, I do not get your point. The reason it takes more
is because it is bonding to the paint. In fact, you can actually feel it when
applying.

The big companies keep putting out the same old products with new
names. They put tons of marketing money, and fancy packaging with
a high mark up, and everyone follows the pack. How many products can you
name that have the same name and our still around since the 80`s.


Lastly, as far as correction is concerned. Yes, there are uses for it. Orange
peel is one need. Although, polishing your clearcoat to an extreme will wear your clearcoat down and affect the clarity. I have seen far to many people
who have destoryed finishes because they had enough knowledge to be dangerous. I am willing to back up anything I say,but it sounds to me that
people hear are interested in what I have to say and that a problem

[DLB]

Todd -
My apologies. I didn`t realize we couldn`t even name a non-CMA product. Was just trying to see what was up like everyone else.

Again - my apologies. Wasn`t trying to spam your forum.

I`m out.

DLB

[Todd@RUPES]

Bill to be honest I was perhaps harsh in my original judgement.

To be clear, linking is against forum rules, and your post showed up as a hyperlink.

If you love the product, and what to boost how good it is, we are all detailing junkies. Keep in mind that the beauty of this forum is that it is very self-policing, and people will question your motives when your posts take shots at other products (waxes for example) or seem to heavily promote another.

I hope you choose to hang out here, follow the forums, establish your crediablity, and have a good time. It is a great place of learning so perhaps you can brush up on your wax knowledge as well?

Todd

[Todd@RUPES]

Todd -
My apologies. I didn`t realize we couldn`t even name a non-CMA product. Was just trying to see what was up like everyone else.

Again - my apologies. Wasn`t trying to spam your forum.

I`m out.

DLB

DLB, no problem, I never thought you where trying to SPAM forum at ALL!!! The editing of the post was 100% tongue in cheek but the link was a result of what I interpeted as SPAM. That is why I replaced picture, to keep it in good nature.

I am VERY SORRY if it appeared that I made it look like you broke any forum rules!!!!!

Todd

[imported_jaredpointer]

If one thing I have said about wax is wrong,
please, tell me. If wax is so great then why do you need a basecoat as a
sealant?

There`s one incorrect statement right there. You don`t need a sealant base. Wax can be used stand alone. The reason folks are putting a wax on a sealant is for a specified look, or for therapy as a couple folks have mentioned.

You`ve also stated that wax doesn`t do anything in the way of protection, which is not true.

The reason it takes more
is because it is bonding to the paint. In fact, you can actually feel it when
applying.

Other products that are sold (namely sealants) can form a bond, either with themselves or with the paint surface and they don`t take near as much product. I`m no chemist, but there is one hanging out and actively posting here, so I`d like to see what he thinks about that statement. Especially the part about feeling a microscopic bonding process happening as you apply the product.

[imported_billd55]

Jared
I am sure wax can stand alone, but my point is why is a sealant needed in the
first place. If that is the case than why not put the sealant over the wax?

[Tuck91]

th001
How many products can you
name that have the same name and our still around since the 80`s.

Quite a few,

Would you like me to name some?

[imported_billd55]

Todd

Thank you for your statement. I have been on other forums where the moderator cuts you off . If I liked Zanio,or some other wax product I feel
there would be no big deal. Although,if wax was doing the job,why?,is there
such a interest in sealant products used alone with wax?

I am doing a black SUV on Sat. It is 3 years old, and has never had wax or a sealant applied to it. I am not going to use any correction on it. I will
take before and after pics. I will wash it with Dawn, use a clay bar, and
apply one coat of AT-5. You on the forum can judge for yourself if I am
right or wrong about AT-5.

[imported_billd55]

Nick
I did not mean say that there are none, but go ahead and name all that you can think of.

[TOGWT]

[I am sure wax can stand alone, but my point is why is a sealant needed in the first place. If that is the case than why not put the sealant over the wax? ]

Wax and Glaze ?Set-up?

Carnauba in today`s wax formulas functions mostly as a carrier; it?s used to keep the polymers and oils on your car`s surface. When applied to a surface will not adhere properly on its own, solvents and miscible oils are added to enable it to spread evenly to the surface.

Natural and synthetic wax and glazes initially adhere by surface tension; the balance of the adherence process is that it works its way via the carrier system (solvent and / or oils) and the polymers into the microscopic gaps and a valley of the paint film surface, or in the case of a wax over a polymer sealant- the ploymers form a bond, thereby creating a mechanical anchor, a wax doesn?t form a true covalent (molecular) bond to the surface, this is due to its limited polymer content.

An organic wax or glaze cures i.e. form a hard shell over the surface, they are time, temperature and humidity dependent; after sufficient drying times do a quick swipe test with your finger, if no smearing or drag is evident; the residue is ready to be removed.

Bonding

Carnauba, an organic wax; will bond to a cross-linked polymer, conversely if a polymer is applied on top of Carnauba wax the cross-linking / bonding may be compromised.

Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with oils will abort the cross linking or bonding process of a polymer just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability maybe affected. (See also Cross-linking and Adherence)

A non-organic wax or glaze is usually formulated with polymers that form a bond with the paint surface or the polymers in a wax. This bond is not as strong as the molecular bond formed by a polymer sealant

Organic waxes initially adhere by surface tension; the balance of the adherence process is that it works its way via the carrier system (solvent and / or oils) into the microscopic gaps and valleys of the paint film surface thereby creating a mechanical anchor. An organic wax, unlike a polymer, has no chemical interaction (molecular bonding) with paint.

[If wax is so great then why do you need a basecoat as a sealant?]

Why use a wax on top of a polymer sealant?

Some detailers find that a polymer sealant tends have a flat, silvered mirror look. Adding a Carnauba wax to the surface provides depth of shine, gloss, jetting (the so called ?wet look?) and a warmth to the paint surfaces overall look. Bear in mind that how a paint surface ?looks? is very subjective and tends to invoke an emotional reaction rather than a logical one 95% of an applied wax comprises out gassed solvent that is wiped away, whereas 65% of a polymer sealant that is applied remains.

Detailers who prepare show cars will often layer a Carnauba wax on top of a synthetic wax; the synthetic wax acts as a gloss layer, while the carnauba wax adds depth and a wet-looking (jetting) appearance

Polymer sealants
Need a porous surface to bond to, they initially adhere by surface tension and then after a period in which the solvents /oils in the carrier system vaporize (outgas) the polymers cross-link to form a covalent (molecular) bond to the surface. This process usually requires 12-24 hours, which are time and temperature and / or humidity dependent.

Note that drying and curing are two different processes. Drying generally refers to evaporation of the solvent or thinner, whereas curing (cross-linking) refers to polymerization of the binder, which imparts adhesion, binds the pigments together, and strongly influences such properties as gloss potential, exterior durability, flexibility, and toughness.

The majority (70%) of a polymer matrix cross-linking cycle occurs within 30 ? 45 minutes of its initial wipe-on application drying; however it is recommended that a period of 12 - 24 hours is allowed for the cross-linking process to complete, otherwise polymerization and durability may be compromised. Although it should be noted that surface oils or silicone and / or moisture introduced before the cross-linking process is complete will interfere with the bonding of a polymer and will negatively affect its durability

When polymer chains are linked together extensively by chemical cross linking - the formation of covalent bonds between chains; the polymer is harder and more difficult to melt. Curing is required to allow the monomers (polymer building blocks) to attach to the surface and to polymerize into a crystal-clear, impervious film.

It is very important to allow polymers to cure for 12-24 hours after the haze has been wiped off. If the coating is exposed to contamination such as oil, rain, water, cleaners, etc. before it has cross-linked, the contaminants may interfere with the film, preventing the polymer from achieving its maximum performance and durability. A polymer, unlike wax forms a molecular bond with paint once it?s had enough time to cross-linking.

A unique aspect of polyurethane chemistry is that the hydrogen bonding acts as an additional crosslink, but also allows thermoplastic flow, which helps the paint surface to retain its elasticity and its tensile strength to relieve mechanical stress. The basic structure of a polyurethane clear coat features a soft segment (polyol or tetramethylene ether) which gives it flexibility and elasticity. There is also a hard segment (polymerization) that has high urethane density, which gives the coating hardness and tensile strength

Carnauba wax

Carnauba in today`s wax formulas functions mostly as a carrier; it?s used to keep the polymers and oils on your car`s surface. Only a small portion of your vehicle`s shine comes from the wax itself. Carnauba is translucent at best with only minimal light reflection. It is among the hardest of natural waxes, being harder than concrete in its pure form

This sacrificial barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants and the paint film surface and this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.1 ? (100 nm, 0.000 4 Mils or 0.000 004 inch) thick. An applied paint protection product is the barrier that provides protection for automotive paintwork besides the clear coat paint.

An organic wax also provides a sacrificial surface that will resist acid (salt brine, bird excrement, acidic rain, etc) better than a polymer, which forms a molecular bond with the paint, whereas a an organic wax forms a semi-hard protective shell (although it lacks durability of a polymer) Each time you wash you remove the top portion of the wax, along with any environmental contaminants.


Extracts from a series of unbiased Detailing Technical Papers, a library of educational materials that has become the #1 reference for car care on the Internet

Chances are you`ll learn something about detailing if you read any of these; although these articles will not improve your detailing skills, lead to a successful business or change your life. Applying what you learn from it, however, will. That`s where your commitment comes in - you need to make a commitment to yourself right now that you will take action on what you learn.

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