Best wax

TOGWT · 06-01-2009, 05:54 AM

Jetting ? sometimes called optical depth comes from an applied product that is two-dimensional, so that light is reflected from both a high and low source, the light waves are distorted (diffuse reflection) which creates a three dimensional illusion of depth to produce jetting (a rippling effect, the so-called ?wet-look) The oils that are formulated in Carnauba waxes provide gloss, this distorts the light reflectance, giving the surface the ?look? of liquidity, like a mirror in shallow water reflecting a three-dimensional deep colour, in contrast, bees wax, paraffin wax, and some synthetic waxes tend to occlude the surface

The aesthetics of a vehicles appearance is very subjective to say the very least, added to by manufactures marketing claims, its a very grey area, the only best wax or sealant that really matters is what looks `best` to you

In the final analysis it all come down to; 85% preparation, 5% product, 7% application methodology and the balance is in the ?guy? of the beholder

**Todd@RUPES** · 06-01-2009, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by TOGWT

I will concede that Carnauba is sometimes formulated with a polymer, but it is a natural substance, not a synthetic polymer.

Carnauba in its natural state is un-usable as a car wax, it is sold as a hard solid block (or flakes) so the oils /solvent / beeswax or polymers that are formulated with it play a large role in the usability and performance of the wax. Many people mistakenly assume the term ?pure wax? means that the wax contains nothing but Carnauba wax or Beeswax, this is not so as all waxes are blends of different substances.

Most of the thickeners used in waxes and sealants are polymers. So the marketing people can "honestly" state this in their marketing and put on the label that "this product contains space-age polymers.?

We will agree to disagree

. A polymer doesn`t have to be synthetic to be a polymer, it simply has to be linked monomer. So you are not really conceding anything IMO, you are confusing the term polymer with the synethic polymer. Skin, to my understanding, is a polymer, the same the components that make up natural carnauba wax.

I am not advocating that wax manufactures, including our own Blackfire, define the exact type of polymers, I am only suggesting that people read between the lines and understand the difference.

TOGWT · 06-01-2009, 07:33 AM

A forum moderator is always correct, after forty odd years as a chemical Engineer I often get confused, :smile:

**Todd@RUPES** · 06-01-2009, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by TOGWT

I`m sure you are correct, after forty odd years as a chemical Engineer I often get confused :smile:

It happens to me also

**imported_Luster** · 06-01-2009, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by TOGWT

A forum moderator is always correct, after forty odd years as a chemical Engineer I often get confused, :smile:

Although I`m not an engineer, I worked with 2000 engineers for 32 years. That can be confusing for ANYONE!!!!

(LOL... Haha!)

**Todd@RUPES** · 06-01-2009, 10:04 PM

Just to follow up, I am in no way, shape, or form trying to argue with TOWGT or upset him. We simply do not agree, and while I immediately concede that his knowledge in chemistry far exceeds mine on a broad scale. My education goes as far as Chem I or whatever it was called in College (it`s been a while). However, it is important for the members of this forum to understand that my answers have always been truthful and well researched.

As a case in point, I stand behind all of the comments I made on this thread, but I wanted to make sure that I was 100% correct in my statements, and again I really want this to be a place of `Truth` in Detailing.

Originally Posted by Mike Phillips from Meguiars, as posted on MOL

Also, as discussed on this forum in the past, the word polymer is a very vague term; all it means is a series of repeating monomers. Most people confuse polymer to mean synthetic but human skin is a type of polymer and so is Carnauba wax.

First what is Carnauba wax made of?

Carnauba wax contains mainly esters of fatty acids (80-85%), fatty alcohols (10-16%), acids (3-6%) and hydrocarbons (1-3%).

What is a polymer?

A polymer composed of repeating structural units typically connected by covalent chemical bonds. These can be natural OR synthetic.

Interesting Polymers...

DNA is a polymer, which means that you body is full of polymers! Now you are protected against the sun and bird bombs

, remember to apply DNA your entire surface and allow to cure completely.

The confusion or disagreement seems to stem from the use of the word polymer. It is often used to describe a synthetic component, but this is not the true definition. It is simply `repeating structural units typically connected by a covalent bond`. Skin is made up of polymers, and so is carnauba wax. This doesn`t mean that carnauba wax is going to cross link and bond (it doesn`t) and neither does your skin.

People don`t refer to Carnauba`s as polymers, because in the car care field, the world polymer is often used to describe a synthetic, cross linking component. However, in the strictest sense of the definition, a carnauba is made of polymer components.

Sources:

http://ask.com
http://www.cem.msu.edu
http://www.materialsviews.com/
http://www.fao.org/ag/agn/jecfa-addi...ditive-109.pdf
-meguiarsonline-
-wikidepida-

If I am incorrect in my statements, then I would love to be corrected, regardless of whether I am a moderator or not. Learning is the number one priority!:wink:

TOGWT · 06-02-2009, 05:52 AM

I would like to apologise to TH0001 for making an unnecessarily sarcastic remark in this post because of a disagreement in chemical facts / terminology (feeble excuse-a very bad day, but none the less ?inexcusable)

I have sent a PM to TH0001 based on my research for various articles, which states my findings on the questions raised. If he feels it would be useful I will post it

**imported_Bunky** · 06-02-2009, 08:11 PM

I think most of this using broad terms around is to confuse the facts for marketing terms. for example, when something is "all natural" it usually gets accompanied with a higher price tag as if all natural was better than something that may not be all natural.

It is all part of the art of selling when there are a lot of competitors and looking for differentiation even when the competitors use the exact same technology.

**nosbusa1700** · 06-04-2009, 12:06 PM

th0001, in that test you mentioned they used Z. Royale. So, you can bump up the 2k number to 7-8k.

Man that`s expensive...

Royale finished 3rd behind BOS, and 915. Z-2 was 5th. Then it was said that after a few hours of curing in the sun, they couldn`t tell a difference in BOS, and 915.

It was a very interesting test.

th0001, I know you sell and market the Blackfire line, but I read you really liked P21s 100% when you tested it against some of the high end waxes, on those Ferrari`s.

Do you still like the 100% as much?

**Junebug** · 06-04-2009, 12:13 PM

One cool thing about getting old is that you remember a lot of stuff over the years. When I was growing up, the space program was big news, we would watch TV in school all day when a rocket was sent up, and I remember watching Neil Armstrong walk on the moon - it was also the first time my Dad let me stay up late and watch TV! So, over the years, products got "better" because of new "space age" ingrediants. And you still see teflon advertised in waxes, and other products whether it would matter or not. Like the oil commercial where the guys are making fun of other brands buzz words. And nothing compares to the fitness industry, just pick up a copy of Muscle & Steroid or go into a GNC, thank God I outgrew that phase in the 80`s.

I think Todd has nailed the wax issue pretty well, not the first time either. I`m sure there`s a few other on that "other" forum that still have there panties in a wad when told their 2K dollar wax costs a fraction to make. Me? Fancy names and packaging is just meaningless foo foo.