I know what I like! Blackfire

[JoshVette]

How long would you say the slickness lasts on the paint in terms of time and washes?

Josh

[JoshVette]

How long would you say the slickness lasts on the paint in terms of time and washes? That is washing without a QD added for slickness?

Josh

[Todd@RUPES]

[QUOTE=Termigator;5072]Thanks for the info, Todd. However slight the differences may be between new and old Blackfire, I`m still glad I have older version of Blackfire. I like the smell!

Do you think they will ever upgrade FMJ? (And don`t say "yeah, it`s called Blackfire Wet Diamond!!)[/QUOTE]

I don`t think that FMJ will be upgraded or updated. The truth is that it is still, after 6 years, one of our best selling products. It is similar to the whole Meguiar`s thing when they are asked why they have so many polishes, waxes, etc: Because each has a loyal following. In fact FMJ is so good that many of other companies closely emulated the formula and the polymer technology in their own sealant. To this day FMJ competes very respectably against many newer sealants while still offering the advantages that made it revolutionary when we released it.

-Super slick and low dust attraction- FMJ leaves behind a surface that is very slippery. If you have ever flooded the paint of a car sealed with FMJ you know what I am talking about, the water just flies off. While many products have a very similar feel nowadays, FMJ was the original, and IMO, very few products approach that crazy slickness. Heck I have dropped my share of microfibers by foolishly setting them on the slightly slanted hood of a car with FMJ. That ultra slick finish also does wonder in preventing a strong static charge caused by the friction of a microfiber rubbed across the surface.

-Washability- FMJ is very slick and forms a very tight, cross linked bond. As such dirt and grime has very little to `stick to`.

-Unique high gloss look- FMJ has a very unique look which was the benefit of the then `new` German acrylic super polymers. It is a wet, even gloss look then many people fell in love with.

-Ease of application- FMJ to this day is still one of the easiest products to apply and remove. I have never seen it streak, and wiping it off is as easy as swiping a towel over the surface.

That said, and I`m sorry to do this to you, but in most cases (minus ease of use) the newest version of Blackfire Wet Diamond really does improve on the original FMJ formula. It lasts way longer, is as easy to wash, and `almost` as easy to apply and remove. While look are always subject, Blackfire looks as good on light colors and far deeper/better on dark colors, at least to my eyes.

[BIOLINK]

That said, and I`m sorry to do this to you, but in most cases (minus ease of use) the newest version of Blackfire Wet Diamond really does improve on the original FMJ formula. It lasts way longer, is as easy to wash, and `almost` as easy to apply and remove. While look are always subject, Blackfire looks as good on light colors and far deeper/better on dark colors, at least to my eyes.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Todd, If you`re not careful you may talk me into buying the newest Blackfire. That`s saying something because I really love FMJ. I have a few ounces of FMJ left and am looking for the next product. :thumbup:

[imported_Termigator]

Todd, If you`re not careful you may talk me into buying the newest Blackfire. That`s saying something because I really love FMJ. I have a few ounces of FMJ left and am looking for the next product. :thumbup:

I still have the 32 oz. bottle along with half of my original 16 oz. bottle.

[BIOLINK]

I still have the 32 oz. bottle along with half of my original 16 oz. bottle.

32oz, Don`t tempt me! :devil:

Just looked at the price, it`s a good deal. I could put a fresh coat on every week `til Christmas. OMG, free shipping too!

[SSTG]

Yes and no. Polycharger is a catalyzer and will shorten cure times. However, as most sealant manufactures have discovered, it is near impossible to catalyzed a sealant to the point of instant cure times and maintain a shelf life. The catalyzing agents acts to cure the sealant as it sits on the shelf, for a lack of a better term. Blackfire has a precise amount of polycharger blended to into the formula, enough to drastically improve the performance, while having no negative effect on shelf life or application.

That said you can still `amp` the product by adding additional polycharger into an ounce or so Blackfire directly before application. This is will shorten cure times significant and may increase the shine further. Keep in mind that the amount that you mixed with additional polycharger should be discarded after 24 hours or so.

Alternatively, if you have an older bottle of Wet Diamond (pre polycharger) you can add polycharger to that prior to application and receive many, although not near all, the benefits of the new formula. The new formula will still outperform it slight do to other changes in the base, but you will notice better performance none-the-less.

I took this from here as it relates to cure times with FMJ/Blackfire products


Just to clear up a couple definitions, or at least how I use the definitions...

Dry time/Haze time: This is the time from which a liquid sealant is applied to the paint to when the sealant has fully dried to a haze and is stable. At this point you can swipe a clean finger across the surface of the hazed surface, and it should swipe away a clean with no streaking. At this point the sealant can be removed from the surface.

Cure time: This is the time, after removal of the hazed residue, in which the chemical reaction of the sealant is fully completed. At this point the sealant will be at its brightest and offer the most amount of protection, in addition to be chemically stable enough to accept other coats of sealant or wax with full benefit.

Both the dry time and cure time are going to be dependent on a variety of factors. Cooler temperatures and higher humidity will tend to lengthen both the dry and cure time, where as excessively thick applications will lengthen the dry time. In drier and warmer climates the times will be shorter. CMA always recommends applying which ever wax or sealant of your choice as thin as possible, just enough to ensure even coverage over the surface.

Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant now features the Polycharger polymer which will decrease the amount of time required for dry time and cure time. The addition of Polycharger should give Blackfire an advantage over FMJ in this respect. At the very minimum, I recommend at least 4 hours between coats, although 12 hours is best. I have applied two coats of Wet Diamond Sealant back to back, with no streaking or ill effects, but I probably didn`t get the full benefit of two separate coats. The best rule of thumb is to wait as long as possible between coats, as it is possible that applying coats with in a four hour period could lead to some streaking.

Blackfire Midnight Sun Carnauba, batch 24, also features a slight polymer additive, designed to bite into even the slickest sealants and promote better bonding. This is why Midnight Sun seems to work well over every sealant. However it is a high percentage carnauba paste wax which requires some time to fully harden. The application of Blackfire is unique, as it is designed to be wiped away wet. Apply the wax to a section, like half of the hood, then immediately buff off to a deep shine. The high percentage of carnauba still needs some air time to fully harden. I personally recommend about two hours before adding another coat of wax, on top of a previous coat of wax, at the minimum. Due to time restrictions, I have applied two coats back to back of the Midnight Sun and once again, never had bad effect.

So, ideally we would allow as much time as absolutely necessary to allow the wax or sealant to harden or cure, to receive the maximum benefit.

The reason that two coats of each product are recommended is to achieve a uniform coverage over the surface. Since two coats, for this reason, are always recommended over one coat, if you don`t have time to wait, you can apply two coats back to back (try to give some time) to get a more even coverage. You likely won`t get the full benefit of having two coats, but you will still have more even coverage then one coat.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even one coat of either product provides great looks and protection. On my personal car where I don`t have the logistical situation to keep my car out of commission for 15 hours while I apply multiple coats of products, I apply one coat of Blackfire Wet Diamond Sealant after detailing. After my next wash, I will add an additional coats of Wet Diamond. After my next wash, I will will apply a coat of Midnight Sun, and that after the third wash, I will add an additional coat of wax.

Hope this helps!

Todd

Thanks Todd.

[Twig]

Junebug, I`ve been a Blackfire fan since`05. With regards to your indecision about putting a Blackfire "carnuba wax" over the top of it my advice is: GO FOR IT!!! For 3 years I wondered the same thing as you and for years I kept putting it off (because of the cost of Midnight Sun and because I like that really slick feeling of Wet Diamond). Last year I took the plunge and bought Midnight Sun and I`ve used it over the top off Wet Diamond ever since! It`s not a "slick" as Wet Diamond but boy does it ever give "depth" to your paint job! :thumbup:

[Todd@RUPES]

Junebug, I`ve been a Blackfire fan since`05. With regards to your indecision about putting a Blackfire "carnuba wax" over the top of it my advice is: GO FOR IT!!! For 3 years I wondered the same thing as you and for years I kept putting it off (because of the cost of Midnight Sun and because I like that really slick feeling of Wet Diamond). Last year I took the plunge and bought Midnight Sun and I`ve used it over the top off Wet Diamond ever since! It`s not a "slick" as Wet Diamond but boy does it ever give "depth" to your paint job! :thumbup:

Hey Twig, welcome to the forum!!!!

When you applied the Midnight Sun over the Wet Diamond, how long did you let the Wet Diamond cure prior to the wax application?

I have found that if you let the Wet Diamond w/ polycharger cure a significant amount of time (6-8 hours after wiping off) the surface will remain pretty slick. But as you noticed the surface will not feel quite as slick after the application of Midnight Sun, which is proof that the wax is working as it is designed to.

Midnight Sun Batch 24 is a very unique carnauba wax in that not only is it the best wax that CMA has ever developed, beating our previous best effort which we sold, but it was designed to really bond on top of polymer sealants as well as it bonds on top of bare paint. IIRC Terry was the first person to recommend topping sealants with carnauba wax. When we set the bar with slickness with Menzerna FMJ, we found that most carnauba waxes, including our top offering at the time, had no real staying power on top the sealants. They didn`t `bond` well to the ultra slick finish.

Midnight Sun completely addresses this problem. While we haven`t tested on top of all sealants (yet), we haven`t found one it doesn`t work well on top of!

[mrtonyn]

the Blackfire sealant? Is there a minimum time the product should stay on the paint to do its job?
I try not to remove it too quickly otherwise I feel that the product does not have the time to do its thing....so on the average I let it stay on the paint for 5 minutes or so before buffing it off.....is my thinking correct?